Hello,
So, I understand that the CR of a creature or encounter signifies the "relative danger presented by a monster, trap [etc...]" and that the higher the CR the "... more dangerous the encounter." (Core Rulebook, 397)
Now, my question is "Relative to what?"
Does the CR represent the relative difficulty/threat between creatures? For instance, an orc is much less a threat than a dragon and, therefore, has a much MUCH lower CR than the dragon.
Or, does the CR represent the danger relative to the party APL? In other words, for a party with a APL of 5 an creature with a CR of 1 would be much less challenging than a creature with a CR 10.
Thanks in advance,
like_a_god
CR represents both.
As far as APL goes, a creature with a CR equal to the party's APL should be a moderate challenge but not a significant danger. A group should be able to take on several monsters of a CR equal to their APL per day (maybe four to six).
James,
Thanks for the quick reply. That helps to clear a few things up in regards to CR.
like_a_god
Just to add a little clarification:
Monsters have a Challenge Rating. Traps, some types of roll-playing encounters, and things like forest fires, cave-ins, etc. also have CR.
These can be taken individually or mixed and matched to create encounters that have an Encounter Level or EL. EL is used for determining experience and treasure.
This helps explain that an encounter with giant spiders could be difficult in their dark, cramped, web-filled lair, but easy if they are roaming the open plains.
More here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gamemastering.html
... These can be taken individually or mixed and matched to create encounters that have an Encounter Level or EL. EL is used for determining experience and treasure...
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gamemastering.html
Fergie,
Thanks for the reply. Could you point out exactly where the text talks about the "Encounter Level"? I haven't found it in the Core Rulebook or on the page you provided a link to. I know this was used in 3.0/3.5 but I've not seen it used in Pathfinder.
Thanks,
like_a_god
... These can be taken individually or mixed and matched to create encounters that have an Encounter Level or EL. EL is used for determining experience and treasure...
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gamemastering.html
Fergie,
Thanks for the reply. Could you point out exactly where the text talks about the "Encounter Level"? I haven't found it in the Core Rulebook or on the page you provided a link to. I know this was used in 3.0/3.5 but I've not seen it used in Pathfinder.
Thanks,
like_a_god
EL does not appear in the PF rules, but it still exist. It is just CR.
Example: 2 CR 3 creatures are one CR 5 combat.In 3.5 it would be an EL 5 combat.
Opps! My mistake. I had been looking at some pre-Pathfinder stuff.
Seems CR does indicate the difficulty of the overall encounter.
Fergie,
Thanks for the reply. I thought that might be the case.
Wraithstrike,
EL does not appear in the PF rules, but it still exist. It is just CR.
Example: 2 CR 3 creatures are one CR 5 combat.
In 3.5 it would be an EL 5 combat.
I appreciate the explination. However, I am trying to understand the creation mechanic in Pathfinder as it is written in the Core Rulebook. There must have been a good reason for the editors to drop the Encounter Level [EL] from usage when they updated the rules from 3.0/3.5. Hence, I have to set it aside. (Although I must admit that having CR represent both a creature's challenge rating AND an encounter's challenge rating, is just asking for confusion.)
Thanks!
like_a_god
Creative Director
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EL essentially did the same thing that CR did; it gave you a number to judge how dangerous an encounter was based upon the combination of monsters, traps, and other elements. We dropped the term "Encounter Level" (EL) because it was too confusing to a lot of folks having two phrases being different even though they meant the same thing.
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EL essentially did the same thing that CR did; it gave you a number to judge how dangerous an encounter was based upon the combination of monsters, traps, and other elements. We dropped the term "Encounter Level" (EL) because it was too confusing to a lot of folks having two phrases being different even though they meant the same thing.
James,
Thanks for weighing in again. I appreciate the way that you guys always seem to take into account the needs of the players.
Having said that, I think that the CR and EL actually represented two different things.
Challenge Rating (CR) = Refers to the relative power of singular creatures, traps et.
Encounter Level (EL) = Refers to the relative difficulty of an encounter, which is made up of (usually) a grouping of creatures, traps etc. (each of which may vary in their CR)
Merging these muddied the waters, at least for me. As a DM, I would have preferred to make use of both of these terms since it allows me to better understand the relative power of creatures singularly, by their CR, and how much threat they represent when combined with others, the EL.
Regardless, I believe you have answered my initial question and I have a better understanding of what CR relates to in the Pathfinder system. I know that I'm trying hard to unlearn some of the mechanics of the 3.0/3.5 system and some things are just easier to let go of than others.
like_a_god