How do you handle the use of the spell "gaseous form" in your games? According to the spell description …
“The subject and all its gear become insubstantial, misty, and translucent. (…) A gaseous creature can't run, but it can fly at a speed of 10 feet and automatically succeeds on all fly skill checks. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks, with all it was wearing or holding in its hands, as long as the spell persists.”
How do you envision a human turned gaseous would appear? Can you still identify the outline as human (especially after he squeezed through "mere cracks")? Could he take the shape of the smoke of a fire? Could dogs still smell him?
In particular, how would you assess the difficulty for others spotting a gaseous creature given different lighting conditions (say, bright daylight, a torch-lit dungeon and at night)?
Lstly, do you let a character’s stealth skill affect their ability to move, sneak and hide while gaseous? And how about being invisible while gaseous – that would render you nearly undetectable, would it not?
I am aware this question has been asked here twice before but afaik it has never been answered satisfactorily.
The situation does come up a lot in our group, as two characters have access to this spell and use it a lot to scout out entire dungeons - not sure whether this is RAI or an exploit.
I would think that the person would take the appearance of either a human or a cloud, at least a face. How could you see without eyes right? I would say a GF PC would be harder to detect in low light but still visible.
If a PC were invisible and GF yes...definitely undetectable, but Invis doesn't last long and the GF PC can't cast in GF.
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Since the spell doesn't change any of the existing rules within its description, they remain the same.
The same Perception check to see it, the same visibility modifiers to such a check, the same chance to hit it with a weapon or targeted spell, and so on.
Note that GF is no protection from stinking cloud, acid fog, or similar area of effect spells -- the creature in GF still breaths just like normal.
How do you envision a human turned gaseous would appear? Can you still identify the outline as human (especially after he squeezed through "mere cracks")? Could he take the shape of the smoke of a fire? Could dogs still smell him?
As a cloud of gas/smoke/fog.
No. The spell doesn't imply that the target gets any control over the form they assume so it's just an amorphous blob. (Well, as much of a "blob" as smoke can be. :))
No. The target does not receive any control over the form they assume.
Yes. The spell description does not eliminate scent. In fact, the target can still "see" and can use all five senses for Perception checks.
Lstly, do you let a character’s stealth skill affect their ability to move, sneak and hide while gaseous? And how about being invisible while gaseous – that would render you nearly undetectable, would it not?
Yes. They may not be able to control their form, but they can control their position. And in fact, I might grant a penalty to sound-related Perception checks of the target since the target is unlikely to be making any sounds.
Being invisible makes you... um, "invisible". So Perception checks have a DC that is +20 higher than otherwise.
Well you can't hear a cloud. +20 to perception DCs to hear it? So an invisible GF would be +40 more diffucult to perceive.
As far as being able to see it, I'd treat it as normal since the spell doesn't specifically grant anything there. The character is translucent and amorphous but it's a cloud. I would assume of whatever color the character is normally.
Animals would deffinitly still be able to smell the GF character.
Well you can't hear a cloud. +20 to perception DCs to hear it?
Where is the modifer on this? I haven't read that anywhere.
Well you can't hear a cloud. +20 to perception DCs to hear it?Where is the modifer on this? I haven't read that anywhere.
Under the "perception" DC examples, it is mentioned that you incur a -20 penalty for spotting invisible creatures. I suppose the assumption is that being inaudible has the same effect.
Note that there may be situational modifiers.
For example, in a misty fog covered swamp/forest/etc, someone in GF would probably get a situational bonus close to invisibility, I'd give them at least a +15 to be seen. By the same token, they would get penalties in a wide open broad daylight desert (much easier to notice a cloud floating on a sea of sand with no cover).
As to the shape, I don't think it matters. I usually let the player decide how their spells manifest (as long as they are consistent). So a billowy blob, fine. A humanoid half-ghost like apparition appearance? Fine. As long as it's consistent.
Some good points here already. Let me try to summarize, and ask two follow up questions:
Invisibility and gaseous form make one nearly undetectable except by scent.
Makes sense: You are invisible, move without sound and are not touching the ground. I suppose that if someone was watching an area closely or expecting an invisible creature to enter, s/he might get a roll. The perception DC modifier for invisible creatures is +20 (as per definition of the perception skill), lighting and distance might add a few more points, so you are pretty safe using both these spells.
You cannot control the shape of the cloud. However, stealth skill applies.
Fair point, as the RAW doesn’t explicitly state anything else. Given the laws of physics, the cloud thus settles into a vaguely round blob, but adapts to the environment, i.e. elongates as you squeeze through a keyhole or crack or becomes temporarily deformed by gusts of wind. But since you can still move (albeit differently) you can still sneak.
> Would you set a penalty, or cap the benefit though?
You can see a misty, translucent cloud just as well or poorly as you would a humanoid.
As such, this is correct. The RAW doesn’t state that you are harder to see – it’s just that you are seen as a misty cloud, not as a (demi)-human being. But given the environment and what an observer may be looking for, I’d argue that being gaseous would still provide a benefit to prevent being spotted.
Obviously, if someone is guarding an entrance in broad daylight, a cloud floating by or wafting in under the door would immediately raise suspicion – I wouldn’t even require a perception check under these circumstances.
But in poor weather (especially fog or rain) or lighting, chances are no one would notice a misty vapor-cloud drifting around – and even if they did, I’d argue that they probably wouldn’t pay it any mind to as long as it followed the direction of the wind.
> How would you set the DC given the circumstances described above?
EDIT: Ninja'd by mdt, but would welcome more examples.
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You cannot control the shape of the cloud. However, stealth skill applies.
Fair point, as the RAW doesn’t explicitly state anything else. [...]> Would you set a penalty, or cap the benefit though?
Nope. Their Stealth check is what it is; no modifiers needed.
You can see a misty, translucent cloud just as well or poorly as you would a humanoid.
As such, this is correct. [...]But in poor weather (especially fog or rain) or lighting, chances are no one would notice a misty vapor-cloud drifting around – and even if they did, I’d argue that they probably wouldn’t pay it any mind to as long as it followed the direction of the wind.
> How would you set the DC given the circumstances described above?...
The general rule is to provide a +2 circumstance bonus (which can stack with other circumstance bonuses) depending on the severity of the environment. Environments which closely match the target form might add +4 or even +8, with a +15 or +20 only happening when the rest of the area is composed of the same consistency/color of mist. If the consistency isn't the same -- GM's perogative as to what that is -- change the modifier. For example, invisible is invisible, but it doesn't work as well in water because it creates a "hole" in the water. A target affected by GF may look similarly out of place even inside a fog bank if you want to rule the appearance different enough.
The general rule is to provide a +2 circumstance bonus (which can stack with other circumstance bonuses) depending on the severity of the environment. Environments which closely match the target form might add +4 or even +8, with a +15 or +20 only happening when the rest of the area is composed of the same consistency/color of mist. If the consistency isn't the same -- GM's perogative as to what that is -- change the modifier. For example, invisible is invisible, but it doesn't work as well in water because it creates a "hole" in the water. A target affected by GF may look similarly out of place even inside a fog bank if you want to rule the appearance different enough.
Fog in general is not consistent, it clumps and thins, so a puff of it being thicker in one area than the other would indeed be normal (why I put it at +15).
Most 'thick fogs' operate like a cloud of concealment, which means you need to be within 5 feet in the first place to even make a perception for a normal human, much less a GF character.
I do agree though that the environment is highly situational. And, I usually give people bonuses to finding invisible people in light fog (since they're leaving a trail in the fog). :)
I'd say a +10 is reasonable enough. You're still fairly visible, and I could see you making a whooshing sound (moving air still makes noise). It's not RAW, but this thread seems to be asking for common-sense adjudication, not exact rules. Kinda like how I would give silenced people a bonus, I'd give a gas guy a bonus.