Limits and effects of Simulacrum


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

One of the bad guys in my game has gotten driven a bit... paranoid by my players, who have certainly done a great job of screwing up his plans at every turn and thumbing their nose in his face. Through a series of elaborate (and well-played) deceptions and misdirections, they've made him question the loyalty of his minions and allies.

So... he's decided the only person he can trust is himself. Or close copies thereof. He's high enough level to have access to Simulacrum.

So... what are the limits of this? Unlike Clone, there seem to be no inherent limits other than the GP cost and time. Given 6-12 months of the party not screwing with him (and it looks like there is a definite detente coming, where both sides lick their wounds and figure out what to do), I don't see why this guy couldn't have a palace full of illusionary "hims" running around. At the very least, paranoid as he is getting, he's going to send these dupes off as decoys or have them run all errands he doesn't have to personally oversee, giving the impression to the lower ranks that he's on top of everything while he lurks behind a locked door warded with everything he can think of to protect him.

Besides just testing the general limits here (both rules-wise and "what makes sense"-wise), a few questions. Many of them hinge on the fact that Simulacrum is an Illusion (shadow) spell. All I can find so far about that is this bit in the "Magic" section about this subset of illusion effects:

Quote:
Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.

1) Can a simulacrum be destroyed via Dispel Magic? I think it seems overwhelmingly that the answer is no, because the spell is instantaneous and Dispel Magic clarifies:

Quote:
"The effect of a spell with an instantaneous duration can't be dispelled, because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect."

Still, if a magic item can be suppressed, can a magic creature? The fact that it is an Illusion spell really gets me hung up, because it suggests that without ongoing magic, the simulacrum couldn't exist at all.

2) Going with the above, what, if anything happens inside an Antimagic Field? This particular bit sticks out as saying "AM Fields can do weird stuff":

Quote:
incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field.

3) Would Detect Magic detect them as magic creatures?

4) What would True Seeing do? My inclination is that True Seeing and similar effects would show an animated figure of snow and ice standing there (Frosty the Anti-Paladin?), since they see through the illusion to show what is really there.

Anyone have thoughts or advice? I realize a Simulacrum isn't very powerful, but their combat effectiveness isn't what would make them useful. Just setting the party off-balance by them having to ponder which of the Big Bad sightings is the real one to follow up on might be worth it to me plot-wise.


1) No dispel magic. The spell has a duration of instantaneous, meaning there is no ongoing effect that could be dispelled.

I'd classify a simulacrum as a construct, similar to a golem. You cannot suppress golems with dispel magic.

2) I say it would still work. The creature is made of ice and snow and pure shadow from the shadow plane, but it doesn't have a "magic engine" that keeps it going, at least not one you can easily suppressed or negated by non-magic zones.

It's like elementals, dragons and similar creatures. They're fantastic and supernatural: A living collection of earth, fire and so on is not something that we can imagine as existing in our normal universe, and it's often maintained that dragons and their impossible physique would go splat if they tried to fly without being fuelled by magic.

Yet still they can happily enter an antimagic field and maul you to their heart's content (or at least to the content of whatever passes for a heart for an elemental).

3) I would say that it shows traces of illusion (shadow) magic, and let you identify it as a simulacrum (by using spellcraft to identify the simulacrum spell's handiwork)

4) True seeing would reveal that it is a thing of ice and snow and shadowstuff.

There is a nice use of simulacrum in Sins of our Saviours (Pathfinder #5, part 5 of Rise of the Runelords) (the following is mildly spoilerous

Spoiler:
The master of Pride in the Runeforge, being a master illusionist and very prideful, created lots of simulacrum spells to help him. The funniest part is what they say when you encounter them. I won't quote it verbatim, but it goes along the lines of: "You are unworthy to disturb our resplendent master. Please die silently so you won't disturb him!

Scarab Sages

I had come to similar conclusions. Although I'm tempted to go with comparisons to constructs, I think Simulacrum would be a transformation spell if that were the case. This is an Illusion (Shadow) spell, so the best comparisons would appear to be with Shadow Conjuration. That doesn't seem a 100% reliable comparison though; Simulacrum just plays as too distinct in flavor, despite the mechanics overlap.

Actually, Simulacrum is just plain weird. They have a mind and will, even though they are obedient to the creator. In fact, a Simulacrum of someone with a 26 INT has... well, not a 26 INT (half the levels, after all, so presumably you'd have to pare that down if the assumption is some of that is from level bonuses -- the spell doesn't give strict guidelines), but is still going to be very smart. Are there limits on that "smartness"?

Do they have a soul? Certainly doesn't seem so at all, which could be quite tragic... I would hate it if I had an 18 INT and WIS, and realized from that that I was just a construct dominated by my creator's will and doomed to melt in a puddle some day.

Do any of these flavor-traits mean anything game-wise, though? Do they share any attributes with constructs?

- Do they eat, breathe, sleep? (They seem to, since they aren't immune to any attacks based on that)
- Are they affected by death attacks, level drain, etc?
- Are they "alive" for the sake of any spells that detect that sort of thing?

Maybe we're venturing far into house rules here, and that's fine (I can decide on all of these myself, and this discussion has certainly made me think). Still, an "Ecology of the Simulacrum" could prove interesting, couldn't it? Maybe I should submit something to KQ.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

James was kind enough to answer many of our simulacrum questions here. I thought you all should know since some of you have asked such questions before.

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