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I had an idea for a fun game that may also be a better class comparison PvP format.
Rather than pick a level and make a build, start each person at 1st level and make it a tournament up to a maximum of 20th level.
Each person would creates a 1st level build and they have a combat under whatever the agreed setting parameters are.
After the first battle, the winner gets a point and they each level the character and add wealth up to the next level before engaging in the next battle. Repeat this after every battle. Items can be upgraded at cost, but only sold for half if you want to replace them entirely. You can save money between levels to buy big money items, but that will put you at disadvantage at that levels combat (just like real gaming)
First to 11 wins. If by level 20 you both have 10, it’s a tie.
This would make you have to make your build in a more “normal” way, making adjustments. It would also make it easier to start the game and reduce build checks, as you are both building together organically.
Eventually spread this out into team matches to make Rogues and Bards viable. I can see it being a lot of fun. Thoughts? Challenges?
I don't really care about PvP and stuff like that, but I must say that your idea is a great one. Those builds would have to be realistic and viable since 1st level instead of those 20th level munchkins that come from nowhere.
Good luck with your project !
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Interesting. Obviously you'll have to define the arena, rules on consumables etc.
There's also going to be a concern about building specifically against the opponent with levelling over the course of the fights, so you might get a very close match between two people who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag in other circumstances.
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I would agree you would have to vary the ground on which they battled. People can become very good at building just for fighting without the need of other skills.
+ PVP never gone over in any of my groups but i like to see an arena style format with specific rules for play of this online. I think it might go over big. A good forum set up on a small website should work.
I don't really care about PvP and stuff like that, but I must say that your idea is a great one. Those builds would have to be realistic and viable since 1st level instead of those 20th level munchkins that come from nowhere.
Good luck with your project !
+1 on the not really caring about PvP, which is at best an amusing intellectual exercise, and at worst an abomination of ridiculous builds and even more ridiculous rhetoric from their supporters.
Accepting that there is interest in this type of thing from a lot of folks, I think the OP's idea has merit. It still doesn't get around the fact that anyone building for this is still building a combat-only caricature of a real PC tweaked out specifically for the arena, which is not at all indicative of how characters would perform in most games. A step in the right direction, though.
Another issue I have with most PvP arguments is that PF/D&D is all about functioning as a team, not an individual. Sometimes it makes most sense in your builds to choose something that helps the team as a whole, rather than increases the god-like combat ability of the individual PC.
One thing I'd love to see or run sometime is something I saw at a convention years ago. The GM had people create and bring their own characters, designed to meet the same specs (I believe he did it at something like 12th level, with the rough equivalent of what would be a 25 point buy now, because he wanted powerful characters). The characters were formed into two groups of six characters each and then run in separate sessions through a pretty standard tomb of whoever dungeon chock full of monsters and traps and puzzles and so forth designed to present a broad variety of challenges and stretch resources to their breaking point. Then at the end of that the groups break into what they think is the final massive treasure room only to find that the other party is breaking in at the exact same time from a door on the opposite side of the room. The two groups have to duke it out to win the treasure for themselves in a combined session. The room itself, of course was full of traps, interesting "terrain" and guardians that went after both groups indiscriminately when certain conditions were met (proximity, disturbing certain items, casting spells, etc.) I didn't get a chance to play it myself, but it gathered a huge audience and generated a lot of buzz, and the people who did play it seemed like they had a blast. I think a scenario like this has some potential for showing who is truly the tops as far as PF/D&D characters, rather than just who is the best one-trick pony combat god.
Stuff.
Instead of a PvP duel in some kind of arena, it could work like this :
People create their 1st level characters and put them in a ''characters bank''.
GM create one random secret scenario: it can be a PvP, like a typical fight in an arena, or a competitive PvE, like a race toward the top of a mountain to be the first to get the artifact lying on the summit, the first to cross a river, the one that slay the biggest number of mooks in 10 rounds, etc.
GM pick up randomly two, or more, characters from the ''characters bank'' for the first scenario.
Then the secret scenario begin ! :)
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There's also going to be a concern about building specifically against the opponent with levelling over the course of the fights...
Wow, the idea of PvP is completely new to me, and this sounds like a fun thing to follow! As for this issue, what about organizing competitors into divisions, the way teams are organized in major sports leagues? So that way, a character has to built to adapt against multiple opponents?
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I don't really care about PvP and stuff like that, but I must say that your idea is a great one. Those builds would have to be realistic and viable since 1st level instead of those 20th level munchkins that come from nowhere.
Good luck with your project !
+1 on the not really caring about PvP, which is at best an amusing intellectual exercise, and at worst an abomination of ridiculous builds and even more ridiculous rhetoric from their supporters.
Accepting that there is interest in this type of thing from a lot of folks, I think the OP's idea has merit. It still doesn't get around the fact that anyone building for this is still building a combat-only caricature of a real PC tweaked out specifically for the arena, which is not at all indicative of how characters would perform in most games. A step in the right direction, though.
Another issue I have with most PvP arguments is that PF/D&D is all about functioning as a team, not an individual. Sometimes it makes most sense in your builds to choose something that helps the team as a whole, rather than increases the god-like combat ability of the individual PC.
One thing I'd love to see or run sometime is something I saw at a convention years ago. The GM had people create and bring their own characters, designed to meet the same specs (I believe he did it at something like 12th level, with the rough equivalent of what would be a 25 point buy now, because he wanted powerful characters). The characters were formed into two groups of six characters each and then run in separate sessions through a pretty standard tomb of whoever dungeon chock full of monsters and traps and puzzles and so forth designed to present a broad variety of challenges and stretch resources to their breaking point. Then at the end of that the groups break into what they think is the final massive treasure room only to find that the other party is breaking in at the exact same time from a door on the opposite side of the room. The two groups have...
Yes at a convention in MN we did something similiar... but it involved several sep groups all going through the dungeon with a dozen DM's lasted all weekend and the big event was on sunday with survivors facing off in the last chamber against each other. It was Great fun.
Stuff.Instead of a PvP duel in some kind of arena, it could work like this :
People create their 1st level characters and put them in a ''characters bank''.
GM create one random secret scenario: it can be a PvP, like a typical fight in an arena, or a competitive PvE, like a race toward the top of a mountain to be the first to get the artifact lying on the summit, the first to cross a river, the one that slay the biggest number of mooks in 10 rounds, etc.
GM pick up randomly two, or more, characters from the ''characters bank'' for the first scenario.
Then the secret scenario begin ! :)
Interesting ideas, and more likely to produce realistic adventuring builds rather than super-optimized combat builds.
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Interesting. Obviously you'll have to define the arena, rules on consumables etc.
There's also going to be a concern about building specifically against the opponent with levelling over the course of the fights, so you might get a very close match between two people who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag in other circumstances.
On consumables, I think the fact that there is carry over makes that a strategic choice.
I agree it would create specific types of builds, but I think the back and forth chess match of each player trying to adapt each round is fun in and of itself.
If that isn't your bag, you can also set it up as a tournament with winners advancing against winners and losers advancing against losers.
Either way, I think it is a lot better way to do it than building at a higher level, ignoring the process of getting to that level.
I think it could be a fun different way of using the game system and having "Build vs Build" challenged.
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...I don't really care about PvP and stuff like that, but I must say that your idea is a great one. Those builds would have to be realistic and viable since 1st level instead of those 20th level munchkins that come from nowhere.
Good luck with your project !
+1 on the not really caring about PvP, which is at best an amusing intellectual exercise, and at worst an abomination of ridiculous builds and even more ridiculous rhetoric from their supporters.
Accepting that there is interest in this type of thing from a lot of folks, I think the OP's idea has merit. It still doesn't get around the fact that anyone building for this is still building a combat-only caricature of a real PC tweaked out specifically for the arena, which is not at all indicative of how characters would perform in most games. A step in the right direction, though.
Another issue I have with most PvP arguments is that PF/D&D is all about functioning as a team, not an individual. Sometimes it makes most sense in your builds to choose something that helps the team as a whole, rather than increases the god-like combat ability of the individual PC.
One thing I'd love to see or run sometime is something I saw at a convention years ago. The GM had people create and bring their own characters, designed to meet the same specs (I believe he did it at something like 12th level, with the rough equivalent of what would be a 25 point buy now, because he wanted powerful characters). The characters were formed into two groups of six characters each and then run in separate sessions through a pretty standard tomb of whoever dungeon chock full of monsters and traps and puzzles and so forth designed to present a broad variety of challenges and stretch resources to their breaking point. Then at the end of that the groups break into what they think is the final massive treasure room only to find that the other party is breaking in at the exact same time from a door on the opposite side of the
I think all of these ideas sound great, but work better in meatspace (aka the real world with real people at real tables) rather than on the messageboards.