Is it true?

[lrichter]

I heard today that PFS no longer allows players to play the same module with different faction chacters. Is that true?

If it's true that rule will really hurt the game we hold at the local gaming store.

Since it is a gaming store I don't believe in turning anyone away, well I just don't believe in turning people away. This means that walk-ins are encourage to show up, pick up a character, and try PFS out. And since it is a gaming store game, those who do shows up from week to week is not super predictable. The result is a sort of chaos because we can't always predict who will be able to play what so we can't always be sure what adventures to prep (we usually prep a low and an high.) But usually we always have to run a low tier adventure... so sometimes a player with a higher level character will have to suck it up and play a lower tier adventure and sometimes it will be a repeat with a different faction PC.

And thus the problem becomes evident - if this new rule is true, then players with higher level characters, who consistently show up to game may have to walk away from game because they won't be allowed to play the adventure and receive credit for it... which goes against my biggest rule (you show up, we'll get you a seat at the table).

I'm open to suggestions but I really don't want to see a table and a group I helped organize and create dissolve a bit over this. In the past I also organized a game store Living Greyhawk table, but it was not this successful and I have to think that Paizo's flexibility is the difference.

Thanks ahead of time

[Neil Mansell]

lrichter wrote:

I heard today that PFS no longer allows players to play the same module with different faction chacters. Is that true?

If it's true that rule will really hurt the game we hold at the local gaming store.

I've copied and pasted the relevant section from the 'Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play' (Version 3.0.1, released 9/21/2010) page 18 (bold added):

DA RULES wrote:

Replay is legal as of 2.2, but only in this manner:

• You may only replay a scenario in order to follow the
“Play, Play, Play” rule to make sure a legal table happens.
This means that if you previously played a scenario but
the only way to make a legal four-person table is for you
to replay it again, relay is now allowed. From another
perspective, if three of the four players have already played
a scenario but the forth player has not, the three players
may elect to replay the scenario to ensure the fourth is
part of a legal table. You may not replay a scenario just for
the fun of it.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same faction
tha you played it with before.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same character
that you played it with before.

In other words, it's allowable if there's no other way for a legal table to be formed. So it's probably not exactly what you want to hear.

I'm an organiser at a games store too, but I've never had this kind of problem because:
1. I avoid running the same scenario more than once anyway.
2. I always bring with me a number of other scenarios 'just in case' the players have already played the one advertised.

[LtlBtyRam]

I have to say the answer is yes there is another thread discussing this. The other thread is where this ruling came from. I understand a lot of what you are saying Irichter. I feel the same way. If you want look at the thread about GM and chronicle sheets that is where you'll find the ruling. Warning it is long as it has been in discussion for at least a few days, maybe a week. I implore you to look at it and post. I have a lot of the same problems you do with the group I coordinate for.

[Dragnmoon]

You can still replay, you just can't replay and get credit any longer.

It comes from this announcement from Hyrum Here, that says;

Hyrum Savage wrote:

Ok everyone, here's the official ruling, which will also appear on the official Pathfinder Society FAQ page when it goes up:

Official PFS Ruling wrote:

If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario.

If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied to any character that hasn't played through the scenario.

You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones.

I'll be monitoring this thread all day to answer any questions or concerns. Also, please expect additional clarifications and updates on other rules as we get to them.

Thanks!

Hyrum.

This means a few things:

You can now get credit as a GM and a Player Credit on different character for a scenario no matter what faction no matter what order it is done, also for now on you can only get credit as a players once, so you can no longer get credit for replay.

it is still unclear, but it seems if you do decide to replay with one of your characters even though you are not getting credit, you still use resources and there is still a threat of death.

Also it is doubtful that replay will require that the table be no larger then 4 players anymore since it makes no sense to keep that restriction.

Feel free to read that thread from Hyrum's post on and post your thoughts.

Edit: this will all be added and made clearer an a future Guide they are planning.

[Dane Pitchford]

Okay, chiming in! The new rule is that you can get credit for a scenario exactly twice. Once for playing it, and once for GMing. You can play it more than once, but you no longer receive credit for playing it after the first time.

[Mark Garringer]

Dragnmoon wrote:

it is still unclear, but it seems if you do decide to replay with one of your characters even though you are not getting credit, you still use resources and there is still a threat of death.

Just a point of clarification here, but since there were no changes to any relevant rules about HOW you play the game in this respect, it is not unclear at all.

You play, for credit or not, you use a potion it's gone. You play, for credit or not, you die you're dead.

[Piety Godfury]

...This just hurts society, as a whole, IMO. If there is a con offering, say, 6 scenarios. Of which, I've played 2 of them and don't have a qualifying character for another 2. Do you honestly expect me to pay for travel, room and board, & admission to play 2 mods I'll get credit for?

...Not to sound like a Debbie Downer here, but common sense has to play a part as well. I don't think, In my area anyway, in recent history there has been a con or a gameday that 50% of the mods hasn't been played elsewhere in the area at some point.

Even at Gen Con (after having been moved for the 3rd time) I settled for replaying a mod I'd played at a gameday. I only signed up for 4 slots!

In LC & LG you could get buy with no replays because you had slews of mods coming out all the time (and, honestly, they were more lenient on playing 'within' APL). That is just not the case for PFS.

[Todd Morgan]

I feel the exact opposite. Allowing a player to get up to five chronicles for different characters yet limiting a GM to only one, it encouraged people to play, not GM. For those that have been forced into GMing due to low player population, it was a tough pill to swallow, to see your colleagues have 3-4 different characters at the same or higher level than your GM character.

Now that they are offering a new low level scenario every month, it really shouldn't be that hard to offer something no one has played before, unless you are offering twice a week gamedays.

[nlw.cs]

lrichter wrote:

I heard today that PFS no longer allows players to play the same module with different faction chacters. Is that true?

If it's true that rule will really hurt the game we hold at the local gaming store.

Since it is a gaming store I don't believe in turning anyone away, well I just don't believe in turning people away. This means that walk-ins are encourage to show up, pick up a character, and try PFS out. And since it is a gaming store game, those who do shows up from week to week is not super predictable. The result is a sort of chaos because we can't always predict who will be able to play what so we can't always be sure what adventures to prep (we usually prep a low and an high.) But usually we always have to run a low tier adventure... so sometimes a player with a higher level character will have to suck it up and play a lower tier adventure and sometimes it will be a repeat with a different faction PC.

And thus the problem becomes evident - if this new rule is true, then players with higher level characters, who consistently show up to game may have to walk away from game because they won't be allowed to play the adventure and receive credit for it... which goes against my biggest rule (you show up, we'll get you a seat at the table).

I'm open to suggestions but I really don't want to see a table and a group I helped organize and create dissolve a bit over this. In the past I also organized a game store Living Greyhawk table, but it was not this successful and I have to think that Paizo's flexibility is the difference.

Thanks ahead of time

Here's the deal, from a player's standpoint. It kind of blows when the same adventure is offered time and time again. I understand it being offered if Paizo's retiring it, but to replay just for the sake of replaying it, that's pretty boring and people are going to walk away. And the high level players know that as well. They're more likely dissapointed with the fact that their are no new adventures being offered, because from what I have read in your post that you are offering the same ones time and time again.

LFR has this problem. I watched for the last couple years, the same players playing the same adventure over and over again. No new players were able to get into the game, because the group would be full nearly 2 months in advance. This problem also led to the growth of pathfinder in our area.

I know that you don't like turning people away, and we hate to have to do it as well. But it does happen.

I have a few recommendations for you, if you have not done it yet. The first would be to set up a yahoo group were people can log into and a sign up for games. And post each game a week to two weeks out, that way you get people to sign up. And when you start getting to the point of having to turn people away, it's time to up the ante and start offering two games on the same night. But don't run 2 or 3 games in one week. It will lead to bigger problems. To keep it fresh, run the adventures twice a month, or even 3 times.

At any given time our game nights consist of 18 players and 3 dms and that's a weeknight. And we have over 6 different locations in the denver-metro area alone that runs adventures, and they get full every night that they are run.

[Thea Peters]

We have a google spreadsheet so that people can track what they've played and what they haven't. We also use warhorn for signups -- the use of it is getting better, however, some peopel still don't sign up. We offer 2 slots once a month. The first slot is a low level for newer people and then a high level for those folks. the 2nd slot is usually a brand new mod that noone has played so we have a good mix.

I think most people in our area understand that there maybe a time when they aren't gong to be able to play the mods presented, however, posting what is being played ahead of time helps people make the decision of showing up or not and therefore we don't have to turn people away as they are informed.

Leaving the decision of what to play up until the day is kind of dumb to be honest, the GM isn't prepared and the module just isn't as much fun. I sat done at a table with another local group -- the GM hadn't even looked at the mod before sitting down to play it, didn't have the basics of gameplay down (I'm assuming since he was looking everything thing up) and it made it a pain. It's more fun for the players and easier for the judge if the know ahead of time. If the high levels see that only low level mods are offered then they know they have a week off.

[Dragnmoon]

Mark Garringer wrote:

Just a point of clarification here, but since there were no changes to any relevant rules about HOW you play the game in this respect, it is not unclear at all.

How can there be changes , when there was never any rules?

There have never been rules for playing your character without Credit, there is for a Pregen, but not your character, therefore it is unclear.

Edit: I sure we see some rules for it in the coming Guide

[Mok]

darkhuron9 wrote:

Here's the deal, from a player's standpoint. It kind of blows when the same adventure is offered time and time again. I understand it being offered if Paizo's retiring it, but to replay just for the sake of replaying it, that's pretty boring and people are going to walk away. And the high level players know that as well. They're more likely dissapointed with the fact that their are no new adventures being offered, because from what I have read in your post that you are offering the same ones time and time again.

I'm a part of lrichter's group and I can assure you that it isn't the same modules that are be played over and over again. The problem is the contrast between the vets and the newbs. The vets have the bulk of modules under their belt with their higher level characters, and when there are sessions, due to who shows up, we have to have the high level players drop down to play in low level games then it's inevitable that they've already played the module. With the replay rules this made it easy to fit people into the tables without any fuss.

One central idea that we have with our PFS group is that we want new people to show up and be able to play that night. We want new blood, because each new player is possibly going to become a regular who comes back session after session and add to the game and fellowship. So we put a top priority in seating walk-ins. Thus, sign ups don't work well because the point is to get the new players, or the player who is recently new, seated first. After that the vets can step in to see what can work.

Some weeks there is little adjustment needed. We normally have two, and sometimes three tables at the session. The GMs end up picking the mods that they are going to run, so there isn't any grinding going on, with players trying to replay mods over and over again. We run a laid back and relaxed session, organized just enough to get it all to work.

One of the things about being in a lower populated area (Vermont) is that some people have to drive quite a ways to play. Several people drive an hour one way for the game, and one guy drives almost two hours (one way) for the game. These are solid vets who are good sociable players who add to the overall atmosphere of PFS. You don't want to turn them away. We don't really have any of these munchkin players that game the system, so even the locals who don't have to travel far you don't want to discourage by turning them away. We like the philosophy of Play, Play, Play! It's been a positive approach for the last year or so.

The replay has allowed things to run smooth, but now if you've got to only offer up pre-gens or replaying with only the reward of a possible death involved then it just creates disincentives to show up. A big part of PFS is getting that chronicle sheet. PFS games aren't really the ideal RPG experience, they are more of fast food type of experience, and what they mostly offer up is a way to conveniently play an RPG when your schedule allows, and to network with other players so that you can hopefully find people to set up more robust and entertaining homebrew games. But if you end up spending all those hours playing and not getting anything to show for it then it will make some people become disinterested and not bothering to show up.