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Say I am using a weapon that grants a shield bonus (NOT a true shield) such as a scizore or a meteor hammer. Is it possible for me to enchant the weapon as though it were a shield and not as a weapon in order to increase the shield bonus? Why or why not?
This is also related to weapons which don`t necessarily INHERENTLY grant a shield bonus but do when you have a special ability, like 2 Weapon Defense or Shield of Swings... In those cases, it is a question of can you add Shield Enhancements to ANY weapon (but they are unusable unless the wielder has an ability to count the weapon as a shield bonus). Obviously you can`t make Shield Bashes with these, just like you can`t with Bucklers.
I would say you should be able to,
but I haven`t yet received answer from Paizo when I`ve asked about this previously.
You should follow the rules for combining magic items, i.e. more expensive price on 2nd functions.
If it`s not allowed, Feats like 2WeaponDefense just seem way too weak.
Sure, Dodge also just gives +1AC (though also to TouchAC), but it`s also a gateway feat to better abilities. 2WD isn`t, and if you can`t `add on to it` (with enchantments) it doesn`t seem worth it.
The idea of allowing it does bring up that it should be made clear that you can only benefit from one Shield... To prevent splitting up enhancement bonus abilities between a real shield and a scizore, i.e. the shield bonus wouldn`t stack but abilities could unless you`re limited from benefitting from more than one shield (in any way).
This is also related to weapons which don`t necessarily INHERENTLY grant a shield bonus but do when you have a special ability, like 2 Weapon Defense or Shield of Swings... In those cases, it is a question of can you add Shield Enhancements to ANY weapon (but they are unusable unless the wielder has an ability to count the weapon as a shield bonus).
That seems unnecessarily complex. The suggestion there is that you can enchant a weapon's nonexistent properties, in the event that a skilled wielder will impart those properties on said weapon at a later time. I'd let you enchant a weapon that already granted a shield bonus to have a better one, though.
Shield enchants are shields only just as weapon enchants are weapon only.
Rules do not support what you wish to do.
A weapon can not grant a shield bonus as parry mechanics do not exist in the game.
???
Ravingdork specifically mentions two weapons which do in fact grant shield bonuses per RAW.That`s not in question.
He`s just asking whether one can extend the natural functionality of these weapons via an enchantment affecting one of their component features.
@JonathingVining: I don´t see what`s `complicated´ about what I`m asking/suggesting.
If you apply a Shield Enhancement to an item, you shouldn`t benefit from it unless you are wielding that item as a shield, i.e. gaining a shield bonus from it. (like Bucklers, you don`t gain the Enhancement Bonus when you are in `Free Hand mode, but only in `Shield mode´)
From Ravingdorks examples, the Meteor Hammer doesn`t ALWAYS grant a Shield Bonus, only in one specific `stance` which takes an action to switch between... When you are in the other stance, it`s mundane shield bonus (and any hypothetical enhancements) disappears.
Extending this to weapons which don`t offer a Shield bonus to MOST wielders isn`t really very far from that... Those untrained wielders without the right Feats or Class Abilities or whatnot simply don´t know the right `stances` or modes (ala Meteor Hammer) which allow/grant a Shield bonus (and by extension any Enhancements to that Shield Bonus).
Now, I`d definitely say that it`s going to be hard to get a good price for such an item if you`re trying to sell it on the general market, i.e. most buyers aren`t going to pay anything extra for something they can`t use. But`s that`s tangential to how you`re allowed to do it in the first place.
Ravingdork specifically mentions two weapons which do in fact grant shield bonuses per RAW.
That`s not in question.
He`s just asking whether one can extend the natural functionality of these weapons via an enchantment affecting one of their component features.
That's exactly right.
A scizore is a one-handed 1d10/x2 martial piercing weapon (shown here) that grants its wielder a +1 shield bonus on any round in which they do not use it for attack.
You can enchant shields as shields, OR as weapons. I'm asking if you can enchant weapons, like the scizore above, as weapons AND as shields, just like you can do with shields (only reversed).
Of course, you would lose the entire shield bonus if you attacked with the scizore, but that's not really the point. I'm looking to see if it can be done at all.
weapon enchants are weapon only.
False. You can enchant any shield except a tower shield as a weapon (as tower shields cannot be used to shield bash with). That's explicitly allowed in the rules.
A weapon can not grant a shield bonus as parry mechanics do not exist in the game.
Also false, as mentioned above.
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As for the topic -- unfortunately, by RAW, there's no specific allowance for enchanting weapons with armor/shield properties, and such an allowance is implied to be needed by the fact that shields do have a special allowance to have weapon properties.
Ravingdork specifically mentions two weapons which do in fact grant shield bonuses per RAW.
That`s not in question.
He`s just asking whether one can extend the natural functionality of these weapons via an enchantment affecting one of their component features.That's exactly right.
A scizore is a one-handed 1d10/x2 martial piercing weapon (shown here) that grants its wielder a +1 shield bonus on any round in which they do not use it for attack.
You can enchant shields as shields, OR as weapons. I'm asking if you can enchant weapons, like the scizore above, as weapons AND as shields, just like you can do with shields (only reversed).
Of course, you would lose the entire shield bonus if you attacked with the scizore, but that's not really the point. I'm looking to see if it can be done at all.
I think the it has to be an actual shield. The shield bonus is just a side effect/benefit of the wielding the weapon. I can't find the picture, but I once saw a sword with a hilt that curved upwards, and could reasonably be used to block an attack. I am sure if there was an exception to the rule it would have been mentioned, like there is for enchanting shield as weapon, which by the way are actual weapons, and do not just mimic weapons.
If the weapon was able to be used "effectively as a shield", and I do think there is a 3.5 weapon that can then I might agree. If I can remember what book it is in I will get the info to you.