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And along those lines, demiliches, devourers, Rovagug, and Groetus?
Just got to thinking about this while writing some stuff up, and wondering if even she has limits, or if her love truly is that all-encompassing.
Because even with those exceptions that is still an impressive amount of empathy, god or otherwise.
I've been running with "finds them pitiable and saddening at best, to be put down like Old Yeller or put away for the sake of everyone and all things".
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In my head, she's got a soft spot for Zon-Kuthon, and wants to pull her brother back from the darkness, thinking of herself as having held on to his glaive, with the intent of giving back, when he finds his way back to her.
If the story ends appropriately tragically, he'll probably then stab her with it...
But daemons? I could see her somewhat sadly refer to them as ugly. Not just unattractive on the surface of the skin, but spiritually loathesome, all the way down to the bone. Groetus might also fit that description.
She might find some beauty (albeit twisted and perverse, by her standards), in the practices and faith of figures like Asmodeus, Zon-Kuthon and even Lamashtu, but probably not Rovagug.
Urgathoa and Norgorber would be worse than ugly, but corrupters of beauty. Even when a vampire is fair of feature and charming of demeanor, or a sower of poisoned words pleasing to listen to, they create ugliness with the tools of beauty, making them defilers of what she considers a most holy gift.
Based on the stuff I've seen / read, it seems that, regardless of how open-minded Shelyn herself may be, much of her church, particularly in Taldor, seems focused on very traditional notions of what is 'beautiful,' and are likely quite willing to dismiss / condemn any alternative interpretations. (Although, based on the art in Gods & Magic, it seems that Shelyn is represented as a full-figured gal, and what we call Juno-esque, might, in Golarion, be referred to as a 'Shelyn-esque figure.' Given the nature of Taldor, where a comfortably well-to-do person is likely to be well-fed, and show it, that might fit particularly well, and local standards of beauty might tend towards the generous hips and ample figure of a matron, and away from 'scrawny, undernourished, girl-children.')
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I've been running with "finds them pitiable and saddening at best, to be put down like Old Yeller or put away for the sake of everyone and all things".
This.
She loves them, but understands that won't save them and doesn't let her love for them cloud her vision as to their true natures.
Your post made sense, except from THIS part.
If the story ends appropriately tragically, he'll probably then stab her with it...
...every part of canon has implied Zon-Kuthon refuses to hurt Shelyn any further than he did that one time when he returned from his trip. Besides, her restoration of his glaive has only furthered her plan to help him recover. I see nothing "appropriate" in your suggestion. *Walks off with a frown on his face*
It's a theological question, though a relevant and important one, whether any particular demon, devil, daemon, or dark god is thoroughly and utterly evil or whether they are capable of love or any higher emotion.
It could be argued, and I will, that Zon-Kuthon's protectiveness of Shelyn is, in fact, his last remaining scruple.
Looking to other gods, while Urgathoa is the goddess of undeath and pestilence, she's also a goddess of merriment and feasting, which leads to a related question of whether the undead are capable of love, friendship, happiness, or anything good or joyful.
If they are? Well, Shelyn might reasonably not have that much trouble with the undead, at least not in comparison to other evil people who are wicked as a matter of choice, as opposed to being forced into it by a curse or just backwards-compatible game rules.
Shelyn also probably would not mention it over tea with Iomedae and Sarenrae. Not because She believes in lying so much as it's one of those "agree to disagree" subjects that it's just better not to bring up. If a creature is capable of love, then redemption is possible. If not, not. Everything else is irrelevant.
If Shelyn is a goddess of beauty as well as of love, she would have to acknowledge, I think, that predators, including outsiders and undead, could have an awful (in the old sense) beauty to them. But that may carry over to a wisp of regret rather than an active desire to convert them.
If Shelyn is a goddess of beauty as well as of love, she would have to acknowledge, I think, that predators, including outsiders and undead, could have an awful (in the old sense) beauty to them. But that may carry over to a wisp of regret rather than an active desire to convert them.
By "old sense", I'm guessing you mean "awe-ful"?
It's a theological question, though a relevant and important one, whether any particular demon, devil, daemon, or dark god is thoroughly and utterly evil or whether they are capable of love or any higher emotion.
Shelyn also probably would not mention it over tea with Iomedae and Sarenrae. Not because She believes in lying so much as it's one of those "agree to disagree" subjects that it's just better not to bring up. If a creature is capable of love, then redemption is possible. If not, not. Everything else is irrelevant.
I pretty much fully agree with that. But depends on how you define love though I guess.
For instance with daemons, Trelmarixian the Horseman of Famine "loved" his predecessor Lyutheria the Parasite Queen, except the only way he was capable of expressing it was by betraying her and consuming her essence. He's now slowly eating her, savoring her remaining consciousness like a candy on his tongue to keep the flavor around as long as possible, treasuring the experience. Is that love? How alien does the emotion and concept of "love" have to go before it's no longer love in Shelyn's view, and it's simply obsession/desire/hunger?
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It's a theological question, though a relevant and important one, whether any particular demon, devil, daemon, or dark god is thoroughly and utterly evil or whether they are capable of love or any higher emotion.
Shelyn also probably would not mention it over tea with Iomedae and Sarenrae. Not because She believes in lying so much as it's one of those "agree to disagree" subjects that it's just better not to bring up. If a creature is capable of love, then redemption is possible. If not, not. Everything else is irrelevant.
I pretty much fully agree with that. But depends on how you define love though I guess.
For instance with daemons, Trelmarixian the Horseman of Famine "loved" his predecessor Lyutheria the Parasite Queen, except the only way he was capable of expressing it was by betraying her and consuming her essence. He's now slowly eating her, savoring her remaining consciousness like a candy on his tongue to keep the flavor around as long as possible, treasuring the experience. Is that love? How alien does the emotion and concept of "love" have to go before it's no longer love in Shelyn's view, and it's simply obsession/desire/hunger?
I think Shelyn's answer would be something vague and enigmatic like "I love my brother and still have hope for him, for love is hope...." This translates basically as "Well, that's a pretty disturbing kink, but if it's all consensual, who exactly am I to say that it's wrong? I mean, yeah, it is, but that's why I'm linked to my brother, Zon-Kuthon, God of Disturbing Kink, and he's linked to me, because that way we can cover all the facets of love, even the nasty and destructive expressions, though I of course hope that those will eventually mellow into more healthy forms."
Zon-Kuthon of course has the opposite hopes, but that's why the two gods make such a great tag team.