Is there gonna be a yamabushi class, or is he just an urban druid that lives in the mountains?
I think he's a "mountain pirate," and as such, he's a rouge.
AAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I was thinking maybe a new oracle subschool; IDK yet.
Actually like the "spontaneous druid" angle.
Yes. We need a third trope from Japan.
I want daoist immortals too.
Yes. We need a third trope from Japan.Can it be creepy ghosts that Meow and girls crawling out of wells instead?
How about vampire chicks that hunt non-vampire vampires?
I want daoist immortals too.
I DO want that!
Well...
I'm not sure immortal is the right word. Could be.
But the idea of a Taoist type sage would be great. I think it would be an awesome Final Fantasy nod to call the class "Geomancer", but I think that was already used in a splatbook somewhere. Oh well.
I also want a Shoki demon queller that's not a paladin/cleric with a confucian scholar hat and robes.
Re: immortals.....they were searching for immortality through alchemy or whatever.
I guess they would just be liches....
kruelaid prolly knows the proper word for them.
I think it would be quite funny if Minkai was based on one of those periods in Japanese history when the borders were closed and therefore it could just be ignored
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Gotta have catgirls while we are at it. :)How about vampire chicks that hunt non-vampire vampires?Yes. We need a third trope from Japan.Can it be creepy ghosts that Meow and girls crawling out of wells instead?
Here's hoping for giant constructs and a class that lets you pilot one
/sarcasm==
AKA 8one6
Gotta have catgirls while we are at it. :)How about vampire chicks that hunt non-vampire vampires?Yes. We need a third trope from Japan.Can it be creepy ghosts that Meow and girls crawling out of wells instead?Here's hoping for giant constructs and a class that lets you pilot one
/sarcasm
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AKA 8one6
Whoops I just FAQ'd that by accident. Disregard that FAQ Gary/Ross!
Anyway,
in all seriousness I think that having a province with Escaflowne style steampunk mecha would be really cool. To qualify that statement, I must say that I expect each province of Tian Xia to be like the countreies in Golarion — there are quite a few nations in Avistan and Garund that are pretty out there and contain controversial elements (Numeria, Alkenstar) so why not have something like that in Tian Xia as well?
I might be biased because my homebrew 3.5 setting had steampunk robots of that sort.
As long as those elements don't run rampant over the entire campaign setting, I am perfectly okay with them existing somewhere.
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As long as those elements don't run rampant over the entire campaign setting, I am perfectly okay with them existing somewhere.
I remember either Jason or James saying somewhere that this was the whole idea behind Golarian. There is somewhere in the world where you can set just about any campaign you want.
Yama - Mountain Bushi - Warrior, How is this Druid ? They followed a blend of Shinto and Buddism and were Warrior Monks so Fighter/Monk or Psiwarrior/Monks if you go into the kind of supernatural powers atributed to them. Though they contemplated nature, it was natures beauty they contemplated; they were more interested in perfection of self - mind and body mastery as well as using samurai weaponry and monk weaponry. Though they were not permitted the use of Daishu the Katana and Wakizashi together. They did use the Katana and they used the Bo Staff.
But... A Lawful Neutral Druid/Monk would be interesting...
Shinto just kinda screams "eastern druid" to me. The reverence for nature, in that you have to go up into the isolation of the mountains to attain that perfection....THAT is what resembles druidry or nature worship to me, nothing as innocuous as any partickilar characteristics of an rpg class.
These were warrior priests, and that says "druid" to me.
Shinto is ancester worship and spiritism, being in the mountains and being warriors that was also the Shaolin Monks, Shaolin being the Forrest they had their monestery in, and many other Martial groups including Ninja. So no druid there either. The up in the mountains to attain that perfection was just to get away from everyone els. Unlike the Celts who were the Druids they never worshiped nature :)
Shinto is ancester worship and spiritism, being in the mountains and being warriors that was also the Shaolin Monks, Shaolin being the Forrest they had their monestery in, and many other Martial groups including Ninja. So no druid there either. The up in the mountains to attain that perfection was just to get away from everyone els. Unlike the Celts who were the Druids they never worshiped nature :)
Yeah — taoism is a better bet for druids. Some form of Confucianism for clerics would be cool too. Both of those philosophies are much more widespread through east Asia than Shinto.
It appears you're right. I could smokebomb by saying that nobody really knows what druids were about since they left no actual written records, but.....that would be intellectually insencere.
It appears you're right. I could smokebomb by saying that nobody really knows what druids were about since they left no actual written records, but.....that would be intellectually insencere.
Shapeshifting is a feature of barbarian, outsider cultures in Chinese and Japanese legend (henge (shapeshifter), for instance, in Japanese, also is etymologically related to the word for perversity).
Druids are probably best represented as tribal, non-imperial cultures and hermits.
shugendo.....though.....supposedly actively drew power from natural places.
I guess that's the comparison to druidry I was looking for.
a Miko/Shrine maiden mystery for oracles would be nice.
a Miko/Shrine maiden mystery for oracles would be nice.
I agree. I also think that the Oracle can represent a lot of the shaman archetypes that practice spirit possession, possibly including the Chinese Nou shamans (masked), the predecessors of the Japanese Noh theatre.
I wrote this -
(Unlike the Celts who were the Druids they never worshiped nature :) )
not meaning the Druids didnt worship nature from what little we know they seemed to. Druid meaning Men of the Oake and they did their thing in Oak Tree circles and their writing the Ogam Script was written on oak bark when it was used at all and it was little trees...
Though they didnt build Stone Henge they came after the Megalithic Age...
Mind a Spontaneous Casting Druid would be fun, or a Druidic Warrior :)
Even an Oriental Druid Class would be interesting. The Bamboo Grove Protector who fights evil Spirits and Oni using Laquered Wooden Armor and Bamboo Staves and Animal Companions :)
they seem like monks what what I read. However if ya wanted to give em a caster class oracle or witch seems like it might fit.
I think it's important to point out that D&D druids are pretty much 100% unrelated to actual Celtic druids (who may or may not have even existed themselves).
That said, rather then a specific "Japanese Druid" class, I'd rather the spontanious "druidic" caster be more aligned with animism, shamanism, and spiritualism...while not being as terrible as the Spirit Shaman of 3.x. Rather then a nebulous "spirit guide," have it gain boons and pacts with spirits, perhaps a bit on willing possession, and the overall emphasis is far more leaning on helping mortal problems rather then spiritual ones - those problems are just helped by utilizing a meeting between human and spiritual forces.
Where the Spirit Shaman failed is that 99% of it's abilities impacted spirits and only spirits. Ideally this new class would be the opposite - using spirits to impact others.
Oh I am well aware that the ADND Druid is not the Celtic Druid, but baced loosly on its Ideas. The Celtic Druid was written down by the Romans and talked about by the Norse Tribes. Oh and written down by the Early Christian Monks...
Oh I am well aware that the ADND Druid is not the Celtic Druid, but baced loosly on its Ideas. The Celtic Druid was written down by the Romans and talked about by the Norse Tribes. Oh and written down by the Early Christian Monks...
Naw. THe D&D druid isn't even based loosly on the Celtic druid. It's based far more on an incredibly bizarre and rather sad mix of post-WWI naturalistic and rustic romanticism and late 20th century radical environmentalist movements.
Naw. THe D&D druid isn't even based loosly on the Celtic druid. It's based far more on an incredibly bizarre and rather sad mix of post-WWI naturalistic and rustic romanticism and late 20th century radical environmentalist movements.
They don't call you "professor" for nothin'.
er. Ahem.
The assignment of the title "professor" was not arbitrary.
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Oh I am well aware that the ADND Druid is not the Celtic Druid, but baced loosly on its Ideas. The Celtic Druid was written down by the Romans and talked about by the Norse Tribes. Oh and written down by the Early Christian Monks...Naw. THe D&D druid isn't even based loosly on the Celtic druid. It's based far more on an incredibly bizarre and rather sad mix of post-WWI naturalistic and rustic romanticism and late 20th century radical environmentalist movements.
Ironically the same (or similar) groups that claimed the word druid also claimed the word witch and I have seen some grumbles, here and elsewhere, that Paizo were insulting modern witches by pandering to medieval stereotypes: which is cute.
Ironically the same (or similar) groups that claimed the word druid also claimed the word witch and I have seen some grumbles, here and elsewhere, that Paizo were insulting modern witches by pandering to medieval stereotypes: which is cute.
You, sir, have deeply offended me as a neo-Cathar.
(With apologies to any neo-Cathars out there)
Yamabushi are Daoist/Buddhist ascetic monks, though a literal translation is 'mountain warrior', the meaning is not quite the literal translation. They were exorcists in old Japan, among other things.
Yamabushi dwelled in the mountains to get away from society and the empire (since they were an illegal organization for much of its history), they did not dwell in the wilderness due to a love of nature - it was the isolation they sought to better follow the path of their beliefs. The beauty of nature was appreciated by all Japanese, not just some sect hiding in the mountains.
As an aside the word Shugenja, used in previous editions is not quite correct. Shugendo is the religion of the yamabushi, and many rural peoples of Japan, following the path of Shugendo is 'shugenja'. However the best translation of 'shugenja' is a worshipper of Shugendo, which is not necessarily a Yamabushi.
Basically Shugenja is to Shugendo, as Christians are to Christianity. Just because you're a Christian does not make you a crusading warrior for god. So there should have never been a class called shugenja, it should have always been yamabushi.
They weren't druids in any way, and should NOT be seen as druids, though I agree Oracle as a class is much closer. (Japan didn't have a druid equivalent.)
There are matagi, essentially mountain guides and hunters (RANGER), and these men hunted in the mountains then worshipped at a great tree dedicated at each mountain village for such prayers. They also prayed for the spirits of the animals they hunted. A matagi, which is a ranger in Kaidan, is the closest thing to a druid in the setting - at least following cultural and historical aspects.
Kaidan will feature: Yamabushi, Matagi, as well as its own kind of Oracle called a Miko and a cleric called a Shoten.
GP
Ok I ceed the point, the ADD Druid is more 19 and early 20th C Based in its written down form. I am meaning the nature worshipping part is baced on the Celts. And in the original book Deities and Demigods there was a whole Celtic Pantheon to use. Plus you used cicles and mistletoe and such in spell components.
The Celtic druids on the other hand were the intellectual caste of Celtic noble society. While the majority of the nobles were warrior caste, including their clan chiefs, kings and high kings. Druids included the lawyers, scientists, sages in many subjects from astronomy and calendar science to understanding nature in all its various forms, as well as being clan and tribal historians, while some of them may have performed as seers and thus performed the job of a priest, Celtic druids were really NOT priests at all. And except for those druids whose specialty was 'trees', 'animals' and other aspects of nature - they weren't nature worshippers per se.
Many rivers and lakes were portals to the 'realm of the gods' which were closely connected to Fey places - so natural sites are places where actual Celtic worship occurred, however this is not really the same thing as 'nature worship'.
The Tuatha de Danaan rather than being 'deities', were 'mythically' the first Celtic tribe to arrive on Ireland: Dagda, Lugh, and the rest. They weren't gods, just kings and nobles of various Celtic clans that warred against an indigenous tribe of proto-humans otherwise called the Fir Bolg. For whatever reasons the Tuatha de Danaan disapppeared - went west, or under the hills... They were more an origin mythos for the Celts of Ireland, ancestral gods really, but not something worshipped either just recognized as heritage.
It is known that the Celtic religion forbade the 'writing'/recording of rituals, law, history and all that was important to them. Beyond that and early depictions of the gods, there is very little known of what a Celtic religion might actually be like. I would suspect something similar to early Greeks worshipped the gods of Olympus to be anything close.
Conclusion: druids aren't really priests at all, their divine connection is only a D&D thing (and some socalled 'religions').
GP
PS: and wouldn't you know it, I'm working on an Iron Age Celtic setting for Pathfinder too, but Kaidan is going on right now, so a Celtic setting is for something next year.
Picture a D&D druid.
Is he mad about civilization?
Does he consider humans and animals and/or plants to be equal?
Does he think there as to be some kind of "balance" in anything at all?
If "yes" is any of these answers, it's not a Celtic druid. Incidentally, if you answered yes to all of these questions, you have the D&D druid.
Yes. We need a third trope from Japan.Can it be creepy ghosts that Meow and girls crawling out of wells instead?
You are describing Kaidan my setting that will be published before Tien Xia. Kaidan means 'strange discussions' that can otherwise be translated as 'ghost' or 'horror stories'. Kaidan is a feudal Japan inspired setting of Japanse horror. Much of the oldest tales as in the oldest European tales, the yokai, yurei, oni, even the tengu were more fierce and scary.
While there's goal for authenticity as reflected in the equipment, background, class names, religion, spiritual nature that better matches history and folklore than D&Disms of Oriental settings.
GP
I actually made a passable yamabushi for a one-shot using the Inquisitor class.
I want daoist immortals too.I DO want that!
Well...
I'm not sure immortal is the right word. Could be.
But the idea of a Taoist type sage would be great. I think it would be an awesome Final Fantasy nod to call the class "Geomancer", but I think that was already used in a splatbook somewhere. Oh well.
+1 Taoist Priest would be very cool.
Yamabushi are Daoist/Buddhist ascetic monks, though a literal translation is 'mountain warrior', the meaning is not quite the literal translation. They were exorcists in old Japan, among other things.
Yamabushi dwelled in the mountains to get away from society and the empire (since they were an illegal organization for much of its history), they did not dwell in the wilderness due to a love of nature - it was the isolation they sought to better follow the path of their beliefs. The beauty of nature was appreciated by all Japanese, not just some sect hiding in the mountains.
As an aside the word Shugenja, used in previous editions is not quite correct. Shugendo is the religion of the yamabushi, and many rural peoples of Japan, following the path of Shugendo is 'shugenja'. However the best translation of 'shugenja' is a worshipper of Shugendo, which is not necessarily a Yamabushi.
GP
Some histories tell of families of samurai fleeing into the mountains rather than commit seppeku once defeated in battle. It was in these mountains where they met the Yamabushi and tempered their warrior arts with Mikkyo/Tendai/Shugendo mysticism. Thus the ninja were born.
Some say so anyway.
+1 Taoist Priest would be very cool.I want daoist immortals too.I DO want that!
Well...
I'm not sure immortal is the right word. Could be.
But the idea of a Taoist type sage would be great. I think it would be an awesome Final Fantasy nod to call the class "Geomancer", but I think that was already used in a splatbook somewhere. Oh well.
Taoism is such a broad religion/philosophy that it could include selfish alchemist/Wizards and benevolent healers. Both might claim to be "priests."