Yeah....claymore.....katana.....pretty much identical.Not quite. The katana is a bastard sword with a great PR campaign. Claymores are greatswords.
Aroooooooooooooo?
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I'm not saying make a ninja a wizard. I'm saying Ranger is probably the closest thing we have to what a ninja is mechanically, and none of them approach the role-playing flavor.
Well, just reflavor to taste without mechanical changes. For example, in PFS play my main character is a 'Samurai' Paladin who worships the goddess 'which barbarians call Sarenae' who she believes to be her divine ancestress.
She uses a glaive which she refers to as a 'Naginata' and is a traditional female Samurai class weapon.
No special rules are needed to create her.
Nos special rules are needed to create a 'Ninja'. Class does not=flavor.
All the Best,
Kerney
I'm not saying make a ninja a wizard. I'm saying Ranger is probably the closest thing we have to what a ninja is mechanically, and none of them approach the role-playing flavor.Well, just reflavor to taste without mechanical changes. For example, in PFS play my main character is a 'Samurai' Paladin who worships the goddess 'which barbarians call Sarenae' who she believes to be her divine ancestress.
She uses a glaive which she refers to as a 'Naginata' and is a traditional female Samurai class weapon.
No special rules are needed to create her.
Nos special rules are needed to create a 'Ninja'. Class does not=flavor.
All the Best,
Kerney
---> That's was where I was going with my hasty ramble! Nicely put Kerney !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PirateShow me the supernatural powers.
You've got the wrong wikipedia page.
...pirates are "absolute divine beings"....
Given that pirates have animal companions, use cutlasses (scimitars), don't wear metal armour and can affect the climate they are clearly Druids
Yeah....claymore.....katana.....pretty much identnicule.
You mean elven curve blade? ;)
Yeah....claymore.....katana.....pretty much identnicule.You mean elven curve blade? ;)
Nah think he meant bastard sword. Game stat wise it is a katana, and some of might even be masterwork katana's
Nah think he meant bastard sword. Game stat wise it is a katana, and some of might even be masterwork katana'sYeah....claymore.....katana.....pretty much identnicule.You mean elven curve blade? ;)
Oh, I was more pokin fun at the elven curve blade...it's a katana, in all but name. IMHO, of course.
issue with the curve blade is it can't be used one handed, which is fine but some folks are gonna want to use a katana one handed, which rules it out.
issue with the curve blade is it can't be used one handed, which is fine but some folks are gonna want to use a katana one handed, which rules it out.
I know. Interesting that it does bastard sword damage, but since it's curved it can only be used with 2 hands...
issue with the curve blade is it can't be used one handed, which is fine but some folks are gonna want to use a katana one handed, which rules it out.I know. Interesting that it does bastard sword damage, but since it's curved it can only be used with 2 hands...
well the difference is it's two handed only but finessable, while the bastard sword is one or 2 handed and non finessable
well the difference is it's two handed only but finessable, while the bastard sword is one or 2 handed and non finessableissue with the curve blade is it can't be used one handed, which is fine but some folks are gonna want to use a katana one handed, which rules it out.I know. Interesting that it does bastard sword damage, but since it's curved it can only be used with 2 hands...
I know. You'd think if it were finessable it could be weilded one-handed as well, but meh.
what makes ya think it would? it is a two handed weapon and using just one hand is much less weldable and there for unfinessable.
what makes ya think it would? it is a two handed weapon and using just one hand is much less weldable and there for unfinessable.
Granted I'm reading alot into it...but if it's designed to not require alot of strength to wield properly and "finesse" kind of implies its also not awkward or cumbersome to wield, either. Does this equal one-hand wieldable? No, not necessarily, but it's not that much of a stretch either.
If I were a DM, I'd allow it, albeit without allowing weapon finesse when wielded one-handed. Makes it a bit clunky mechanics wise, but hey, it's a katana ;)
ah thats were your not looking, its fast, but only if your putting your whole body into it. The weapon is to large, however if it where made to use one fighting style that used your whole body to "wield" the weapon it becomes and extension of you so to speak.
In other words it only works with one style, so using it otherwise and ya more or less are not taking advantage of the weapon as it was meant to be used.
It is only "fast" because your using both hands, not in spite of it.
ah thats were your not looking, its fast, but only if your putting your whole body into it. The weapon is to large, however if it where made to use one fighting style that used your whole body to "wield" the weapon it becomes and extension of you so to speak.
In other words it only works with one style, so using it otherwise and ya more or less are not taking advantage of the weapon as it was meant to be used.
It is only "fast" because your using both hands, not in spite of it.
Yeah, I hadn't considered it's actual size. Assuming it's the size of a katana...
However, if it's the size of a nagimaki or a nodachi, then yeah too big.
yeah I am seeing it and think it was meant to be more an "eleven two hand sword" then an "elven bastard sword".Its close to a bastard sword in stats but more a two handed sword in use. Which puts it closer to a nodachi,then a katana.
yeah I am seeing it and think it was meant to be more an "eleven two hand sword" then an "elven bastard sword".Its close to a bastard sword in stats but more a two handed sword in use. Which puts it closer to a nodachi,then a katana.
Good point :)
Kinda related thoughts below
Unlike say 2e , weapons in 3e have far fewer variables to play with. Meaning a great many weapons in game are really just alike in stats. If their were things like weapon speeds or if weapons have finesse built in or effected different armor in different ways then ya could stat weapons up many ways.
But as it stands your stuck with very, very few variables. Which means ya ether, give it better crit rang,or modifier, some special ability or make it exotic just because of it's name more then anything.
Which means that well a katana is a bastard sword as it most closely matches a katana. Now those weapons were not used alike, or with the same styles and the katana would do less well vs plat but was faster then the bastard sword.
But intil the game takes into effect items like speed,effectiveness vs armor type, and the like there is no need to make weapons over and over again as ya just end up "one upping" everything else in a quest to "make it good enough"
Anyhow that is just my thoughts on it.
Kinda related thoughts below
Unlike say 2e , weapons in 3e have far fewer variables to play with. Meaning a great many weapons in game are really just alike in stats. If their were things like weapon speeds or if weapons have finesse built in or effected different armor in different ways then ya could stat weapons up many ways.
But as it stands your stuck with very, very few variables. Which means ya ether, give it better crit rang,or modifier, some special ability or make it exotic just because of it's name more then anything.
Which means that well a katana is a bastard sword as it most closely matches a katana. Now those weapons were not used alike, or with the same styles and the katana would do less well vs plat but was faster then the bastard sword.
But intil the game takes into effect items like speed,effectiveness vs armor type, and the like there is no need to make weapons over and over again as ya just end up "one upping" everything else in a quest to "make it good enough"
Anyhow that is just my thoughts on it.
Meh. I have no desire to play GURPS: Pathfinder ;)
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As a scholar of swordplay, there is no difference in speed between a katana and a bastard sword. The differences are as follows:
- A katana is more sharp. This makes it better against unarmored or lightly armored foes, but actually worse against heavy armor. It is more difficult to use 'half-sword' techniques on a katana.
- A bastard sword tapers, the katana does not.
- A katana is curved. This makes the draw cut very nasty, but leads to the next difference.
- A katana has only one edge. Bastard swords cut equally well with both edges, though they're really meant to stab armored people.
- The katana is a cutting-primary weapon. The bastard sword is actually a stabbing-primary weapon.
D&D and Pathfinder do not count any of these, really. They have a level of abstraction that makes these small differences more or less irrelevant. For our purposes, a katana is nothing more than a bastard sword with a really good PR campaign.
The differences grow even less pronounced if you take the 'stock fantasy bastard sword' instead of the 'historical bastard sword' as your example.
D&D and Pathfinder do not count any of these, really. They have a level of abstraction that makes these small differences more or less irrelevant. For our purposes, a katana is nothing more than a bastard sword with a really good PR campaign.
Which was my point, so yeah I totally agree with you.
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My Ninja, less rough draft with some new ideas
Full BaB, d10
Good Reflex Save
6 Skill Points per level
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ninjas are proficient with the blowgun, club, dagger, dart, kama, katana, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, short bow, shuriken, siangham, sling, and spear.
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st AC Bonus, poison use - - - -
2nd Evasion - - - -
3rd Fast movement +10 - - - -
4th High jump 0 - - -
5th Hidden Weapons 1 - - -
6th Fast movement +20 1 - - -
7th Uncanny Dodge 1 0 - -
8th Enhanced mobility 1 1 - -
9th Fast Movement +30 2 1 - -
10th Improved evasion, Twin 2 1 0 -
11th Improved uncanny dodge 2 1 1 -
12th Fast Movement +40 2 2 1 -
13th Death Attack 3 2 1 -
14th A Thousand Faces 3 2 1 1
15th Fast Movement +50 3 2 2 1
16th True Death 3 3 2 1
17th Quiet Death 4 3 2 1
18th Fast Movement +60 4 3 2 2
19th Hide in Plain Sight 4 3 3 2
20th Divide 4 4 3 3
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored, and unencumbered, the Ninja adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC. This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the Ninja is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Poison Use: Ninjas are trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison themselves when applying poison to a blade.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher, a Ninja can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a Ninja makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Ninja is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Ninja does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a Ninja gains an enhancement bonus to his land speed, as shown on Table 3–10. A Ninja in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Hidden Weapons (Ex): At 4th level, a Ninja becomes a master at hiding weapons on his body. He adds his Ninja level to all Sleight of Hand skill checks made to prevent others from noticing them.
High Jump (Ex): At 5th level, a Ninja adds his level to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, he always counts as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex):At 7nd level, a barbarian gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught f lat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A barbarian with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny
dodge (see below) instead.
Enhanced Mobility (Ex): Starting at 8rd level, when wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a Ninja gains an additional +4 bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity
caused when she moves out of a threatened square.
Twin (Su): Starting at 10th level, once per day as a full round action a ninja may divide into two Ninjas, each having half of the original hit points and each having a base attack, saves, and abilities and skills equal to half of his total ninja levels, but unable to cast any Ninja spells until reunified. The second ninja will appear within 5 feet of the original ninja, dressed in similar non-magical clothing to the original, but without any gear or equipment. Gear can be given to the new character at the original ninja’s discretion.
For example a 10th level Ninja with 80 hit points could divide into two 5th level Ninjas, each having 40 hit points each, with base attack, saves and special abilities of a 6th level Ninjas. All skill checks would rolled at ½ of the original Ninja’s.
Recombining is a standard action that requires the two ninjas to be within 10 squares of one another. If either Ninja is reduced to 0 hit points, the remaining Ninja is restored to it’s full level, but without any additional hit points and with the staggered condition for a number of rounds equal to the level of the ninja that was slain. The Ninja may remain divided in this way for 1 hour per level. If he does not rejoin within this time, the twin is immediately reduced to zero hit points and the primary ninja suffers the staggered effect as a result.
Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 10th level, a Ninja’s evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Ninja does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
A Ninja of 11th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.
Death Attack (Ex): At 16th level, If a Ninja studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (Nijna’s choice). Studying the victim is a standard action. The death attack fails if the target detects the assassin or recognizes the assassin as an enemy (although the attack might still be a sneak attack if the target is denied his Dexterity bonus to his Armor Class or is flanked). If the victim of such a death attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 Ninja class level + the Ninja’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the Ninja.
A Thousand Faces (Su)
At 14th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell.
True Death (Su): Starting at 4th level, anyone slain by an Ninja’s death attack becomes more difficult to bring back from the dead. Spellcasters attempting to bring a creature back from the dead using raise dead or similar magic must make a caster level check with a DC equal to 15 + ½ the Ninja’s level or the spell fails and the material component is wasted. Casting remove curse the round before attempting to bring the creature back from the dead negates this chance. The DC of the remove curse is 10 + ½ the Ninja’s level.
Quiet Death (Ex): At 6th level, whenever an assassin kills a creature using his death attack during a surprise round, he can also make a Stealth check, opposed by Perception checks of those in the vicinity to prevent them from identifying him as the assailant. If successful, those nearby might not even notice that the target is dead for a few moments, allowing the assassin to avoid detection.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He
cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
Divide (Su): Instead of onlu than being able to split into two equal beings, the ninja can split into several Ninjas of whichever levels the ninja chooses so long as the primary ninja’s level is greater than or equal to all others and so that the total levels of all ninjas is equal to the total ninja levels.
Hit points and skill points are equal to the fraction of the level of the character, rounded down. Only the primary ninja suffers the staggered effect following the death of any one of the other ninjas, and the duration remains the number of rounds equal to the level of the Ninja slain.
Spells
Beginning at 4th level, a Ninja gains the ability to cast a small number of spells, which are drawn from the Ninja spell list. A Ninja must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have an Intellegence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a ranger's spell is 10 + the spell level + the ranger's Intellegence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a ranger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Ninja. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intellegence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells). When Table: Ninja indicates that the ranger gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intellegence score for that spell level.
A Ninja must spend 1 hour per day in quiet meditation to regain his daily allotment of spells. A Ninja may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his Ninja level – 3.
1- Endure Elements , Obscuring Mist , True Strike , Memory Lapse ,Disguise Self ,Vanish , Cause Fear , Animate Rope , Expeditious Retreat , Feather Fall , Jump , Stone Fist ,Magic Weapon, Summon Nature’s Ally I, Produce Flame.
2 - Protection from Arrows , Fog Cloud , Dust of Twilight , Detect Thoughts , See Invisibility ,Daze Monster , Darkness , Blur , Invisibility , Blindness/Deafness , False Life , Scare , Accelerate Poison , Alter Self ,Cat's Grace,Darkvision, Codespeak Glide , Knock , Levitate , Pyrotechnics ,Spider Climb, Summon Nature’s Ally II
3- Nondetection , Arcane Sight , Tongues , Heroism , Suggestion , Major Image , Blink , Gaseous Form , Fly , Haste , Keen Edge, Versatile Weapon.Water Breathing, Summon Nature’s Ally III
4 - Stoneskin , Dimension Door , Solid Fog , Detect Scrying , Locate Creature , Scrying , Aura of the Unremarkable, Invisibility, Greater , Shadow Projection , Summon Nature’s Ally IV
Very open to feedback and questions. Still very rough, most ideas moved from other places.
Many of the skills come from other classes, but were changed for specific reason. Before you think it's overpowered, read what I took out of it (AC for example doesn't go up as levels do)
Also, having to spread out your points was an intentional decision. There is really only one dump stat if you think about it. This was done so that you can decide how you want to build and what you want to focus on. Basically, you kind of have to.
Again, looking for feedback, appreciate the time.
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.....I enjoyed reading ***THIS*** thread and to be honest, discounting warped ninja-tv/fictional portrayals in comic/film/animations, the Ninja = Bard argument works for me.
WOW, I wish I had thought of that. Bards are a fantastic chassis for a ninja archetype. That is a really good way of approaching this.
My Ninja, less rough draft with some new ideas
** spoiler omitted **...
Twin is a power that is more appropriate as a custom spell.
The assassin additions are good, but hide in plain sight comes WAYYYYYYYY too late. Ninjas are KNOWN for being able to disappear. Probably should go to the level 10 slot in place of Twin.
As for the BAB/HD. It is my opinion that ninjas are not straight up fighters. They do NOT fight fair, because if they did they would be bushi or samurai or just plain old rangers with different spells. Ninja fight dirty which to me says sneak attack. Which then says to me 3/4 BAB/D8 HD. Sneak attack fits in with death attack. They are related powers.
Now looking at your class feature setup, many of the low level powers could almost be rogue talents so I think you might be able to just toss sneak attack on there. but the spells complicate things. You stagger the sneak attack to +1d6 every 3 or even 4 levels to compensate for the having of spells. Or you might come up with another mechanic to represent dirty fighting, although sneak attack is really a good one.
Anyway, that's my 2¢ You have a good base of a class here. I like most of it, and I am very picky about my ninjas.
WOW, I wish I had thought of that. Bards are a fantastic chassis for a ninja archetype. That is a really good way of approaching this..
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.....I enjoyed reading ***THIS*** thread and to be honest, discounting warped ninja-tv/fictional portrayals in comic/film/animations, the Ninja = Bard argument works for me.
*AND* it made Jason 'very happy'..
Well.. I for one am VERY happy to see someone building a ninja by using a bard. Well done! :)
...and who doesn't wish to see Jason and the gang of 'Magical Persons of Reputed Awesome' happy?
huh?
Who I ask you?
You?
Come on, out with it!
-.-
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I did a sample character to see if I could come up with a ninja using just the core classes. This is what I came up with.
Female human fighter 1/rogue 10
LN medium humanoid (human)
Init: +4 Senses: Perception +15
AC 27, Touch 19, Flat footed 23 (+4 armor, +4 deflection, +4 Dex, +1 Dodge, +4 natural)
hp: 77 (1d10+2 plus 10d8+20)
Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +5
Speed: 30 ft
Melee: +2 short sword +14 (1d6+2/19-20)
Melee: +2 short sword +12/+12 (1d6+2/1d6+2/19-20) with two-weapon fighting
Ranged: Mwk shortbow +13 (1d6/x3)
Special Attacks: Rogue talents (bleeding attack, crippling strike), Sneak Attack +5d6
Spell-like abilities (CL 10th)
3/day: Ghost Sound
2/day Vanish
Tactics: Chizu relies more on stealth then on strength of arms. If she is forced into combat she will spend the first round trying to get herself into a position where she can use her bow to pepper her opponents with arrows. If she does have to enter close quarters then she will use bleeding strike and crippling strike as often as possible while looking for an opportunity to use Vanish to slip out of the battle.
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 12 Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk: +8, CMB: +12, CMD: 23
Feats: Acrobatic Step, Agile Maneuvers, Dodge, Double Slice, Nimble Moves, Stealthy, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse (short swords)
Skills: Acrobatics +17, Bluff +13 Climb +14, Diplomacy +13, Escape Artist +6, Intimidate +14, Perception +15, Profession (Courtesan) +16, Stealth +23, Survival +16
Languages: Common, Halfling
SQ: Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Rogue Talent (Fast Stealth), Trapfinding, Trap Sense +3, Uncanny Dodge
Combat Gear: Amulet of Natural Armor +4, Ring of Protection +4, two Potion of Cure Serious Wounds
Other Gear: Mithral chain shirt, two +2 short swords, Mwk shortbow w/20 arrows, ten smokesticks, climbers kit, black clothing, other gear and treasure.
What do you think? Based on this experiment I really think that there is a need for a seperate ninja class.
I did a sample character to see if I could come up with a ninja using just the core classes. This is what I came up with.
** spoiler omitted **
What do you think? Based on this experiment I really think that there is a need for a separate ninja class.
Attacks: I think her attacks should be +14/+9 and +12/+12/+7.
Gear:I think she is under-equipped. No stat boosters. No cloak of resistance. Really?
You could knock her ring and amulet down to +2 each and have a crap ton more money (20,000gp) for enchanting her armor or getting other worthwhile gear. I might recommend a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4. It will get her AC back up to 27 AND increase her attacks, Reflex saves, and many of her skills. You'd still have 4,000gp left for a cloak of resistance +2.
I also think she should have some poison on her if she is a hit and run type. Wear down the enemy by letting the poison do its work before the second assault. That will make her a little more effective and better keep to the theme.
Feats: Weapon Finesse applies to all light weapons, not just short swords. I'm not sure I would have chosen the same feats you did, but I can't find fault with the ones you picked. For a hit and run person, I would have given Spring Attack, but it doesn't have much synergy with your two-weapon fighting feat, so it's neither here nor there.
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All in all, it could be a better build.
I'm curious to see what ninja builds other posters would come up with.
Female human fighter 1/rogue 10
LN medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +15
AC 27, touch 20, flat-footed 20 (+4 armor, +3 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 Dodge, +3 natural)
hp 77 (1d10+2 plus 10d8+20)
Fort +9, Ref +15, Will +7
Speed 40 ft (8 squares)
Melee +2 short sword +16/+11 (1d6+2 plus poison/19-20) or
+2 short sword +14/+14/+9 (1d6+2 plus poison/1d6+2/19-20) with two-weapon fighting
Ranged Mwk shortbow +15/+10 (1d6 plus poison/x3)
Special Attacks bleeding attack, crippling strike, poison, sneak attack +5d6
Spell-like abilities (CL 10th)
3/day - Ghost Sound
2/day - Vanish
Str 11, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 12 Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +8; CMB +14; CMD 25
Feats Acrobatic Step, Agile Maneuvers, Dodge, Double Slice, Nimble Moves, Stealthy, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +24 (+28 jumping), Bluff +13 Climb +14, Diplomacy +13, Escape Artist +8, Intimidate +14, Perception +15, Profession (Courtesan) +16, Stealth +25 (+35 with elixir), Survival +16
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ evasion, fast stealth, improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense +3
Combat Gear arrows (20), elixirs of hiding (2), poison doses (any, 10), smokesticks (10); Other Gear +2 short swords (2), amulet of natural armor +3, belt of incredible dexterity +4, black clothing, boots of striding and springing, climber's kit, cloak of resistance +2, masterwork shortbow, mithral chain shirt
Tactics Chizu relies more on stealth then on strength of arms. If she is forced into combat she will spend the first round trying to get herself into a position where she can use her bow to pepper her opponents with poisoned arrows. If she does have to enter close quarters then she will use bleeding strike and crippling strike along with her poisons as often as possible while looking for an opportunity to use Vanish to slip out of the battle and let the poison do its work. She only uses her elixirs of hiding when facing powerful opponents (to better ensure she gets the surprise).
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Attacks: I think her attacks should be +14/+9 and +12/+12/+7.
Usually when I write up a stat block I only include the first attack. Since it is usually only me using it I don't feel the need to include the other attacks, since I know they should be there.
Gear:I think she is under-equipped. No stat boosters. No cloak of resistance. Really?
A cloak just doesn't seem ninjaesque to me. Belts and gloves I could see. She was just something I threw together really quick between classes. I also was more concerned about the mechanics of making a ninja using the rogue class than I was about gear.
Feats: Weapon Finesse applies to all light weapons, not just short swords. I'm not sure I would have chosen the same feats you did, but I can't find fault with the ones you picked. For a hit and run person, I would have given Spring Attack, but it doesn't have much synergy with your two-weapon fighting feat, so it's neither here nor there.
For some reason I thought that Finesse was like focus and only applied to a chosen weapon. There were quite a few feats that I would have liked to have taken, but I only had so many avalible. I really would have liked to have taken Hellcat Stealth, which might be what she takes at 12th level.
Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.
Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
Or a ranger...
Or a ranger...Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
Or a monk ...
Or a monk ...Or a ranger...Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
See, now this works.
Could do them by schools or clans; for instance:A clan/school that operates in a more urban environment: Rogue archetype.
A clan/school in a remote wilderness setting that focuses more on the nature magics: Ranger archetype.
A clan/school that focuses on the more mystical advancement: Monk archetype.
This way you're both paying homage to most of the ninja mythos out there, and not trying to squeeze it all into one class.
Or a monk ...Or a ranger ...Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
Or a bard ...
Or a monk ...Or a ranger...Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
See, now this works.
Could do them by schools or clans; for instance:
A clan/school that operates in a more urban environment: Rogue archetype.
A clan/school in a remote wilderness setting that focuses more on the nature magics: Ranger archetype.
A clan/school that focuses on the more mystical advancement: Monk archetype.This way you're both paying homage to most of the ninja mythos out there, and not trying to squeeze it all into one class.
A clan/school that is specialized in social manipulation: bard archetype.
I agree totally. It also helps get away from having classes that are pigeonholed to specific cultures (although to be fair, there are druids, paladins, and monks)
In all these thread about ninja, I constantly see this argument between historical ninja (which are claimed to be like rogues), and mystical ninja which seem like half-casters.
A couple points, while ninja were real, there are almost no documents that record these secret organizations, rather official documents mention the use of ninja for a given task, little more is written about - besides from martial artist speculators. So what is real about ninja, is hardly known.
The idea that in the real world magic doesn't exist, doesn't really fit either. Ki, which is a part of life force, exists in every creature and non-living things. The orient believed/believes in Ki.
So I see the development of Ki classes including monk, ninja, samurai and others as well. Ki isn't the same as sorcery or D&D magic. It is a usable power and should be included as intrinsic to a ninja.
My ninja class for Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting is a ki based class with many skills of the rogue, but is not a rogue and shouldn't be confused for one. My ninja follows closer to legend and fact, than from D&Disms of the ninja.
If you want to help develope the ninja, considering joining the Kaidan patronage project and participate directly. Kaidan is scheduled for release in early 2011 - before Paizo's setting will be released.
GP
Or a monk ...Or a ranger...Technically all a ninja needs to be is a Rogue with a special archetype package attached same with the Samurai a fighter with an archetype attached. They can be made with superficial changes to what is already allowed with those two classes.Came here to say this. Leaving satisfied.
Jeremy Puckett
See, now this works.
Could do them by schools or clans; for instance:
A clan/school that operates in a more urban environment: Rogue archetype.
A clan/school in a remote wilderness setting that focuses more on the nature magics: Ranger archetype.
A clan/school that focuses on the more mystical advancement: Monk archetype.This way you're both paying homage to most of the ninja mythos out there, and not trying to squeeze it all into one class.
A clan/school that is specialized in social manipulation: bard archetype.
I agree totally. It also helps get away from having classes that are pigeonholed to specific cultures (although to be fair, there are druids, paladins, and monks)
Right on.
If your gonna go multiple archetypes do not use the same name. Ninja is a rogue, the ranger should be based on another aspect and different name as should the bard and monk and so on.
If your gonna go multiple archetypes do not use the same name. Ninja is a rogue, the ranger should be based on another aspect and different name as should the bard and monk and so on.
They would all be ninja...jsut of diffrent clans/schools.
Say ranger archetyped ninja is an Iga Ninja, while the rogue archtype was a Koga Ninja, etc...
If your gonna go multiple archetypes do not use the same name. Ninja is a rogue, the ranger should be based on another aspect and different name as should the bard and monk and so on.They would all be ninja...jsut of diffrent clans/schools.
Say ranger archetyped ninja is an Iga Ninja, while the rogue archtype was a Koga Ninja, etc...
This seems like a good idea to me.
You could build them as archetypes much like Super Genius Games does. Then insert them into what ever class you want. The Genius Guide to Martial Archetypes is a great example of what can be done. Their Youxia Archetype is awesome for Wuxia style characters seen in most Hong Kong martial arts movies. They also did most of the work splitting all the base and core classes into archetypes that can be replaced with new archetypes.
If your gonna go multiple archetypes do not use the same name. Ninja is a rogue, the ranger should be based on another aspect and different name as should the bard and monk and so on.They would all be ninja...jsut of diffrent clans/schools.
Say ranger archetyped ninja is an Iga Ninja, while the rogue archtype was a Koga Ninja, etc...
For Kaidan these are the classes so far (you can use for example): Bard (bakushi), Cleric (shoten), Fighter (bushi), Inquisitor (possible yamabushi), Monk (budoka), Oracle (miko), variant Paladin (sohei), Ranger (matagi), Rogue (shinobi and yakuza), Sorcerer (jugondo), Wizard (onmyoji).
Despite the uproar for the contrary I will be introducing a new samurai class, though loosely archetyped on the Ranger.
I am still narrowing down my approach for Ninja.
GP
If your gonna go multiple archetypes do not use the same name. Ninja is a rogue, the ranger should be based on another aspect and different name as should the bard and monk and so on.
If you want to be totally historically accurate the word "ninja" wasn't really even used during the time period ninja were most active, and later might havebeen a pejorative used by samurai to mean something along the lines of "dishonorable assassin" (full disclosure, I am in no way a japanese etymologist). Where as a more positive term would have been "shinobi" or "shinobi-no-mono" which was a term used by a japanese emperor to honor a gifted spy.
In historical records samurai didn't even use either word, but rather described ninja operatives as "iga-men" or "koga-men".
And ninja =/= rogue, necessarily. They operate similarly yes, but the rogues steal stuff or explore dungeons, or execute heists. Ninja were farmers trained in insurgent tactics, deception, infiltration, espionage, used a wide range of weaponry, and who practiced a mixture of taoism, shinto, and buddhism, and fought to keep their home provinces from being controlled by the kamakura government.
if anything their DnD analog is rangers. But that's a strict interpretation. I prefer one where playing a ninja allows lots of character options, because ninja clans need lots of different specialists. So bard-ninjas, ranger-ninjas, rogue-ninjas, and monk-ninjas, are welcome.
Yep I know that name was not used to much later. However using the same name for multiple archetypes is confusing. They didn't make a dozen swashbuckler archetypes. They made one with that name. So there should be only one with the ninja name.
Maybe make a really versatile class that fills lots of roles, but has an overarching theme that keeps the class on track.
I currently play a dark whisper gnome "ninja" using the 3.5 Complete Adventurer Ninja class with Pathfinder skills and upgraded HD. But the character isn't really "Asian" or "Oriental," so I just call him a shadow stalker.
But I designed a more versatile version that I'd like to playtest sometime. It's designed to be versatile so different visions of what a ninja is can be represented by it. It's also pretty modular, so additional Ki Reserve abilities and Talents can be added.
Ninja
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge dungeoneering, Knowledge history, Knowledge local, Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier.
Ninja are proficient in all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana (bastard sword), kukri, longsword, nunchaku, sai, scimitar, short sword, shuriken, siangham, Ninja are not proficient in any armor or shields.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. AC Bonus, Ki Pool, Ki Reserve Power, Sudden Strike +1d6, Trapfinding
2. Evasion, Talent
3. Sudden Strike +2d6, Poison Use
4. Talent, +1 AC
5. Sudden Strike +3d6
6. Talent
7. Sudden Strike +4d6
8. Talent, +2 AC
9. Sudden Strike +5d6, Improved Poison Use
10. Advanced Talents, Talent
11. Sudden Strike +6d6
12. Talent, +3 AC
13. Sudden Strike +7d6
14. Talent
15. Sudden Strike +8d6, Greater Poison Use
16. Talent, + 4 AC
17. Sudden Strike +9d6
18. Talent
19. Sudden Strike +10d6
20. Ultimate Talent, Talent, +5 AC
AC Bonus. When unarmored and unencumbered, the ninja adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC and CMD. This applies to her touch AC and when she is flat-footed, but not when she is immobilized. At level 4, and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1.
Ki Pool (Su). The ninja has a reserve of mystical energy called her ki pool. It has a number of points equal to ½ her class level plus her Wisdom bonus. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, she has access to her Ki Reserve Power. By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make 1 additional attack at her highest attack bonus when making a full attack. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for round. Finally, a ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. As a ninja gains levels, points from her ki pool can be spent to activate many of her Talents.
Ki Reserve Power (Su). At 1st level, the ninja chooses one of the following Ki Reserve Powers. As long as she has at least 1 point in her Ki Pool, she has access to her selected Ki Reserve Power.
Damage Reduction. The ninja gains DR/magic equal to ½ her level (minimum 1).
Enduring Fortitude. The ninja gains the benefits of the Endurance and Diehard feats. In addition, she adds half of her ninja level to the bonuses provided by the Endurance feat.
Energy Resistance. Choose 1 energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). The ninja gains resistance 5 to the selected energy type; this increases by 5 at level 4 and every 4 levels thereafter.
Inner Strength. The ninja adds half her level (minimum 1) to her Will Saves.
Inner Fortitude. The ninja adds half her level (minimum 1) to her Fortitude Saves.
Light as Air. The ninja benefits from a constant feather fall effect. At 6th level, she gains a constant water walking effect. At 12th level, she gains a constant air walk effect.
Mystic Celerity. The ninja’s speed increases by 10 feet. This increases to 20 feet at 7th level, 30 feet at 13th level, and 40 feet at 19th level.
Night Vision. The ninja gains lowlight vision (or superior lowlight vision if she already has lowlight vision). At 5th level, she gains dark vision 60 feet (or her existing dark vision increases by 60 feet). At 10th level, she gains the ability to see through magical darkness. At 15th level, she gains blind sense 60 feet. At 20th level, she gains blind sight 30 feet.
Unarmed Damage. The ninja benefits from the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and her unarmed damage equals a monk’s of the same level. Monk and ninja levels stack for the purposes of determining her unarmed damage.
Sudden Strike (Ex). The ninja causes additional damage to any opponent that is flatfooted or denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. This damage is +1d6 at 1st level, plus an additional 1d6 points of damage every 2 levels thereafter.
Trapfinding. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Evasion (Ex). The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Talents. At 2nd level, and every 2 levels there after the ninja chooses one of the following abilities.
Combat Mastery. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and for 1 round gain the benefits of a combat feat that she qualifies for but does not have.
Concealment. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action gain concealment, including benefiting from a 20% miss chance, for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus.
Extra Class Skill. The ninja may choose 1 cross-class skill and add it to her list of class skills. This talent may be chosen more than once.
Ghost Sight. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and benefit from the see invisible spell for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus.
Ghost Step. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and become and remain invisible for 1 round.
Ghost Touch. The ninja can strike incorporeal targets as if they were corporeal.
Improved Uncanny Dodge. The ninja gains the Improved Uncanny Dodge ability. She must have Uncanny Dodge before selecting this ability.
Ki Blast. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and for 1 round gain the ability to make ranged touch attacks with a range of 60 feet that cause damage equal to her ninja level plus her Wisdom bonus on a successful hit.
Minor Venom. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and poison 1 weapon with a mystic poison for up to 1 minute per level or until the weapon successfully strikes a target. This poison does 1d3 points of ability damage of the ninja’s choice (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma) for a number of rounds equal to the ninja’s Wisdom bonus. The Save DC is 10 + ½ the ninja’s class level + her Wisdom modifier. A successful save prevents further damage from occurring.
Potent Skill. Choose 1 skill you are trained in. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and add +20 to the all skill checks of the chosen skill for 1 round. This ability may be selected more than once, each time applying to a different skill.
Puissant Strike. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and add her Wisdom bonus to her attack and damage rolls for 1 round.
Rogue Talent. The ninja can select a rogue talent. She can choose this talent more than once, each time selecting a different talent from the list available to rogues.
Second Ki Reserve Power. The ninja may select a second Ki Reserve Power.
Silencing Attack. When the ninja makes a successful critical hit or sudden strike attack, she may spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as an immediate action and cause her opponent to be silenced (as the spell, but only targeting her opponent) for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus.
Swift Feint. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and may make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a free action for 1 round.
Swift Stride. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and move up to her speed.
Uncanny Dodge. The ninja gains the Uncanny Dodge ability.
Wholeness of Body. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and regain a number of hit points equal to her class level.
Wraithstrike. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and resolve all melee attacks for 1 round as melee touch attacks.
Poison Use (Ex). At 3rd level, the ninja never risks accidentally poisoning herself when using poison. At 9th level, she gains Improved Poison Use, which allows her to apply poison to her weapon as a move action. At 15th level, she gains Greater Poison Use, which allows her to apply poison to her weapon as an immediate action.
Advanced Talents (Su). Beginning at 10th level, the following advanced talents become available whenever the ninja may select a new talent.
Abundant Step. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and use dimension door with a caster level equal to her ninja level.
Crippling Strike. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Defensive Roll. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Dispelling Attack. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Feat. The ninja may select any feat she qualifies for.
Flicker. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool and gain the ability to teleport 5 feet per 2 class levels as an immediate action once per round for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus. If she teleports away in response to an attack, she gains a 50% miss chance against that attack.
Ghost Mind. The ninja gains Spell Resistance 15 + her class level against divination spells.
Hide in Plain Sight. The ninja gains the ability to use the Stealth skill to hide even while being observed, as if she had the shadow dancer ability of the same name.
Hummingbird’s Dance. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and gain the benefit of a Blink spell for a number of rounds equal to her class level.
Improved Concealment. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action gain full concealment, including benefiting from a 50% miss chance, for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus. She must have the Concealment talent before selecting this talent.
Improved Ghost Step. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and become and remain ethereal for 1 round or invisible for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus. She must have the Ghost Step talent before selecting the ability.
Improved Ghost Sight. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and benefit from True Seeing for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom bonus. She must have the Ghost Sight talent before selecting this ability.
Improved Ki Blast. When the ninja uses her Ki Blast ability against the target, on a successful hit she may use one of the following abilities as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity: Bull Rush, Disarm, Sunder, or Trip using a CMB equal to the ninja’s class level plus her Wisdom bonus, or Pull the opponent a distance towards the ninja, up to the closest square that is adjacent to the ninja.
Improved Wholeness of Body. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and gain Fast Healing equal to ½ her class level for a number of rounds equal to her Wisdom modifier. She must have the Wholeness of Body ability before selecting this ability.
Ki Mastery. The ninja gains the ability to spend points from her Ki Pool as a free action instead of as a swift action.
Ki Strike. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as an immediate action and for 1 round bypass all kinds of damage reduction.
Major Venom. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and poison 1 weapon with a mystic poison for up to 1 hour per level or until the weapon successfully strikes a target. This poison does 1d6 points of ability damage of the ninja’s choice (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma) for a number of rounds equal to the ninja’s Wisdom bonus. The Save DC is 10 + ½ the ninja’s class level + her Wisdom modifier. Two successful saves prevent further damage from occurring.
Opportunist. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Poison Resistance. Whenever the ninja is subjected to ability damage or ability drain from poison, she subtracts her Wisdom bonus from the amount of ability damage or ability drain she suffers.
Potent Poison. If the ninja uses poison on an attack that is also a successful sudden strike, she adds the number of sudden strike dice she has to the Save DC of the poison.
Skill Mastery. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Slippery Mind. The ninja gains the rogue ability of the same name.
Third Ki Reserve Power. The ninja may select a third Ki Reserve Power. She must have the Second Ki Reserve Power ability before selecting this talent.
Ultimate Talent (Su). At 20th level, the ninja may select one of the following abilities in addition to the regular Talent or Advanced Talent she gets for being 20th level.
Fourth Reserve Power. The ninja can choose a fourth reserve power. She must have the Third Reserve Power Advanced Talent to select this ultimate talent.
Ghost Walk. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and benefit from the Ethereal Jaunt spell.
Quick Killer. The ninja can make a coup de grace as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Shadow Walk. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and benefit from the Shadow Walk spell.
True Venom. The ninja can spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as a swift action and poison 1 weapon with a mystic poison for up to 1 hour per level or until the weapon successfully strikes a target. This poison does 2d6 points of ability damage of the ninja’s choice (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma) for a number of rounds equal to the ninja’s Wisdom bonus. The Save DC is 10 + ½ the ninja’s class level + her Wisdom modifier. Three successful saves prevent further damage from occurring.
Truly Potent Poison. If the ninja uses poison on an attack that is also a successful sudden strike, she adds her sudden strike damage to the save DC of the poison.
Truly Puissant Strike. When the ninja makes a successful critical hit or sudden strike attack, she may spend 1 point from her Ki Pool as an immediate action to cause maximum damage.
I've been looking at doing Ninja as a prestige class, with monk as the base class up to at least fourth level plus one level in something else to qualify. Requirements: ki pool, ranks in stealth 8, Disguise 5 (Disguise is not a class skill).
I also see a required class dip into one other class as a possible requirement for taking the Ninja prestige class, with available bushi fighter, jugondo sorcerer, shinobi rogue, matagi ranger or bakushi bard.
As a monk he gains access to the ki pool, evasion, two bonus feats, unarmed strike, flurry of blows, stunning fist, fast movement, maneuver training, still mind, and slow fall - all of which could effectively be used by rogue types - lacking only find traps, and sneak attack.
The Ninja would follow as a 10 level prestige class with Sudden Strike every odd level for a total 5d6 Sudden Strike Damage, plus a list of very similar ki powers as Smilodan offers in his spoiler above - I'd like steal them or work out something... but with only 10 levels a shorter list.
It would probably be better to build a Monk 5th/Other Class 5th before taking 10 levels of Ninja (or Monk 4/Other 6/Ninja 10).
I also want to introduce five different ninja houses: each with their own preferred weapon, specialized infiltration techniques, modus operandi, contacts and clients - and perhaps special higher level ki powers exclusive to each house.
GP
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I think I'd prefer ninja of different base classes belonging to the same clan. Some clans might focus more on mystical training, with others more on physical arts, but pretty much every ninja clan is going to have some rogueish ninja, some monkish ninja and some bardish ninja, and possibly some ranger ninja, alchemist ninja, etc.
It's less of a single class, and more of a lifestyle. Same with samurai, for that matter. Some used katana. Some preferred no-dachi. Some used naginata. *Many* prefered 'the way of horse and bow' and stuck to yumi from horseback. Many more individuals of the samurai status weren't fighters at all, and specialized in courtly stuff.
Making the 'ninja' a singular class (or even PrC), IMO, kind of limits them.
I rather see it as a series of alternate class features, for any of a small selection of base classes. (Rogue, Monk, Ranger, Alchemist, maybe a few others?)
And since any assassin clans in Tien Xa don't have to follow specific Japanese historical assumptions, perhaps, like the Red Mantis Assassins, or the Kali-worshipping Thuggee, they might have some divine spellcasting support as well, thanks to a like minded god(dess) who might consider their clan of assassins as being some sort of arbiters of karma or something, that weed out those who have defied the proper way of things, as laid down by the gods...
Does anyone remember the Oriental Adventures supplement for 3.0? (Lot5R, I think.) There was a ninja there, yes? Is it salvageable or useless?I just pulled the book off the shelf behind me, and ... <unimpressed sigh> ... this guy's a slightly altered rogue. You could probably house rule him into existence with a few new rogue talents, honestly. If you really wanted to. (Ninja Dodge? Really?)
For all my thinking that a non-magical ninja is best, I understand the hunger for a magic'd up version. I think a Prestige Class would be the best route for that.
<What? Did nobody tell me it's saturday night? -Puts ROKUGAN back on shelf- Backs away from computer...>
To be honest it was technically correct in what they do. Ninjas normally hid in shadows until their victims went to sleep then dripped poison down a string into their victim's mouths killing them then they quietly left with out being seen. Exciting?... no not that much.
What I don't want to see is Magic Casting saftey orange wearing "ninjas".