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An animal companion is generally an animal. I would expect some magical beasts to also be possible companions. By the description of animal companions, an animal comapanion cannot have an intelligence of greater than 2.
An animal cannot have an intelligence greater than 2 (per the type description for animal).
Can an animal companion's HD stat bump be taken in intelligence? If so, does it still have the Animal type? Does it become Animal (augmented) or Magical Beast (augmented animal)? Is it still a valid target for spells or effects that target only animals?
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
An animal companion is generally an animal. I would expect some magical beasts to also be possible companions. By the description of animal companions, an animal comapanion cannot have an intelligence of greater than 2.
An animal cannot have an intelligence greater than 2 (per the type description for animal).
Can an animal companion's HD stat bump be taken in intelligence? If so, does it still have the Animal type? Does it become Animal (augmented) or Magical Beast (augmented animal)? Is it still a valid target for spells or effects that target only animals?
Per the animal companion rules detailed in the Druid class, an animal companion gets a stat increase at various points as the druid (or ranger) advances in level. This stat increase can absolutely be taken in intelligence. This does not cause the animal companion to become a magical beast. This is a specific exception the the normal animal rules.
Edit: cross posted from other thread:
Marc, if you have a cite on this, I'd appreciate it; I'm still making the 3.5 to PF transition.
From the actual animal companion rules in the druid section:
An animal companion's abilities are determined by the druid's level and its animal racial traits. Table: Animal Companion Base Statistics determines many of the base statistics of the animal companion. They remain creatures of the animal type for purposes of determining which spells can affect them.
Next ...
Ability Score Increase (Ex): The animal companion adds +1 to one of its ability scores. (note that intelligence is not excluded here)
Then, under Animal Skills:
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str). All of the skills marked with an (*) are class skills for animal companions. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.
And, under Animal Feats:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using. GMs might expand this list to include feats from other sources.
This has actually come up a number of times in the past and various Paizo folks have confirmed this.
Hope this helps!
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Per the animal companion rules detailed in the Druid class, an animal companion gets a stat increase at various points as the druid (or ranger) advances in level. This stat increase can absolutely be taken in intelligence. This does not cause the animal companion to become a magical beast. This is a specific exception the the normal animal rulesAn animal companion is generally an animal. I would expect some magical beasts to also be possible companions. By the description of animal companions, an animal comapanion cannot have an intelligence of greater than 2.
An animal cannot have an intelligence greater than 2 (per the type description for animal).
Can an animal companion's HD stat bump be taken in intelligence? If so, does it still have the Animal type? Does it become Animal (augmented) or Magical Beast (augmented animal)? Is it still a valid target for spells or effects that target only animals?
Yes, I understand that an AC gets stat bump. If I stat out an animal with more HD than usual (massive boar, for example), he gets a stat bump as well. He can't take that bump to result in intelligence of greater than 2.
So, with all respect to your assertation, why do you think that this is an exception? Is it an exception, or does the animal type description prevent the bump to intelligence? If there are two rules, they must both be followed. An exception overrides another rule. Where is the text that allows the animal type to be excepted?
Edit after your prior post: Yes, the magical beast statement in the other thread was an error. It becomes Animal (augmented).
The bolded sections in your post about ACs with Int of 3 or higher certainly say an AC can have an Int of 3 or higher. A magical beast with Int of 3+ might fall into this category.
Note: I don't know which way it is...I'm looking for answers. What has been cited so far doesn't do the job of providing an explicit exception; rather, it is a patchwork that makes sense when assuming the consequent.
If you're talking about using a Magical Beast as an Animal Companion, by RAW that's not allowed. Druids (and by extension, other classes that gain companions using their rules) have a set list of animals that are permitted, and thats it. Note that the animals listed as companions also use different stats and abilities than the same animals in the Bestiary. So I'm not sure where you expect Magical Beasts to come into play here at all...
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If you're talking about using a Magical Beast as an Animal Companion, by RAW that's not allowed. Druids (and by extension, other classes that gain companions using their rules) have a set list of animals that are permitted, and thats it. Note that the animals listed as companions also use different stats and abilities than the same animals in the Bestiary. So I'm not sure where you expect Magical Beasts to come into play here at all...
By the core rulebook there is no such option. To say by RAW it isn't allowed is...well, just not true. The list is not a closed list. The ruleset is an open ruleset. I can type a couple of paragraphs below, release it via the OGL, and poof...magical beast companion.
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By the core rulebook there is no such option. To say by RAW it isn't allowed is...well, just not true. The list is not a closed list. The ruleset is an open ruleset. I can type a couple of paragraphs below, release it via the OGL, and poof...magical beast companion.
Not sure if I'm getting the point your asking but maybe I can be useful. Magical beasts innately have a powerful ability or skill, such as blink dog's blink, which make it much more powerful than an AC of equal level/HD/so on. Now if you just want the magical beast instead of an animal companion you could do a few things like give it's specials to the druid to cast via proxy (so it uses a spell slot for the ability), but since magical beasts are so varied it's almost impossible to pin down an exact formula. "Savage Species" comes closest in exchanging levels of normal growth and levels granting special abilities, still a pain to do though.
If you're talking about using a Magical Beast as an Animal Companion, by RAW that's not allowed. Druids (and by extension, other classes that gain companions using their rules) have a set list of animals that are permitted, and thats it. Note that the animals listed as companions also use different stats and abilities than the same animals in the Bestiary. So I'm not sure where you expect Magical Beasts to come into play here at all...By the core rulebook there is no such option. To say by RAW it isn't allowed is...well, just not true. The list is not a closed list. The ruleset is an open ruleset. I can type a couple of paragraphs below, release it via the OGL, and poof...magical beast companion.
RAW stands for Rules As Written. Sure you can do what you're talking about, but then you're writing your own rules, thus it's not RAW.
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RAW stands for Rules As Written. Sure you can do what you're talking about, but then you're writing your own rules, thus it's not RAW.
Yes, I know RAW stands for Rules As Written. I understand it to mean something different than what you do. RAW serves as a benchmark for what a rule means based upon what it says. RAI serves as a benchmark for what is thought to be intended. RAW is more objective; RAI is more subjective.
The core rules are not the only source of RAW, which is why I distinguished in starting "By the core rulebook..."
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Not sure if I'm getting the point your asking but maybe I can be useful. Magical beasts innately have a powerful ability or skill, such as blink dog's blink, which make it much more powerful than an AC of equal level/HD/so on. Now if you just want the magical beast instead of an animal companion you could do a few things like give it's specials to the druid to cast via proxy (so it uses a spell slot for the ability), but since magical beasts are so varied it's almost impossible to pin down an exact formula. "Savage Species" comes closest in exchanging levels of normal growth and levels granting special abilities, still a pain to do though.
Gregg, thanks for the contribution.This thread follows from another conversation.
The question is: can an animal companion have intelligence boosted beyond 2 by Int bump. Animals are limited to intelligence of 1 or 2. Animal companions have rules for intelligence higher than 2.
Either animal companions are different and thus can have higher intelligence than normal animals, or only animal companions that aren't animals are the subject of those rules for Int +3.
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The question is: can an animal companion have intelligence boosted beyond 2 by Int bump. Animals are limited to intelligence of 1 or 2. Animal companions have rules for intelligence higher than 2.Either animal companions are different and thus can have higher intelligence than normal animals, or only animal companions that aren't animals are the subject of those rules for Int +3.
An animal companion can have its intelligence boosted beyond 2 by increasing it with the ability increase at druid levels 4, 9, 14 and 20 as detailed in the Animal Companion rules in the Druid class description.
Animal companions are indeed a special case and are an exception to the standard rule which states animals cannot have an intelligence score higher than 2.
I agree it could be more unequivocally stated but this is what the rules say.
The paladin's mount is another such exception to the normal animal rule. Paladin's mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6 and they are animals, not magical beasts. At 11th level, a paladin's mount gains the celestial template which causes it tobecome a magical beast for the purposes of determining which spells affect it. Prior to this, it was an animal.
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Animal companions are indeed a special case and are an exception to the standard rule which states animals cannot have an intelligence score higher than 2.
I agree it could be more unequivocally stated but this is what the rules say.
Marc, I'm tending to agree that the preponderance of evidence is pointing to that direction. Paladin horse must have Int 6+ kinda locks it up, I think.
I'm going to treat companions as Animal (augmented). Non Companion animals that are advanced do not "level-up" per se. They are atypical versions of their type, thus are constrained by the 1-2 Int. A companion animal is a single instance of its type that changes in qualify as a result of its interaction with the bonded character.
Thanks all for working through this with me. In particular, Marc, I appreciate your help, patience and respectful attitude. On to next portion of the discussion. :)
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I don't know if it helps, because I can't state any new references beside those Marc Radle has postet, but I always thought an animal becoming an animal companion becomes somewhat more than an ordinary animal.
So I support and confirm the things Marc has postet.
Therefore, you can give it a stat bump to Int and apply the innate bonuses (AC is now applicable to all feats, no handle animal skill rolls, because you can direct it by spoken orders etc.).
Ruyan.