1) When some-one uses Ride-by Attack and continues moving after the charge does he move through the enemy's square or he must charge passing from a square adjacent to his target?
2) Does the mount also attack when you use spirited charge?
If YES
Lets's say that your mount is a tiger with pounce :-)
Will this tiger do all its attacks and the continue moving?
If yes :-) what happens with attacks that have grab?
1) When some-one uses Ride-by Attack and continues moving after the charge does he move through the enemy's square or he must charge passing from a square adjacent to his target?
It depends on the line of the charge.
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent
what i wouldn't give for the ability to draw diagrams on this thing...
Lets say the battle mat is a chess board.
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-20895220/stock-vector-chessboard-with-lette rs-and-numbers.html
If you are at D8 and your opponent is at D2 and you charge, The closest space you can attack your opponent from is D3. You charge there, and continuing the line would take you into your opponents space in D2. If you used a lance thats great, your horse can now hoof the guy in the face. If you used a non reach weapon the feat (like the gogles) does nothing. The only place you can continue moving is ...D2. Which you can't do because your opponent is there and you don't have an action to bullrush him with (not if you want to attack anyway) The only use for the feat then would be if the opponent has reach.
If your opponent is on D2 and you start on B8, what constitutes "continuing the line of the charge" gets a little fuzzier. A charge can take you to either D3 or C2. Lets say you go to C2. A line From B8 to C2 continues into C1, or the funny way lines work mayby D1 (line spells moving north south will often cover more than one square east west)
What that lets you do is do what the feat is supposed to do, hit the opponent and keep running.
2) Does the mount also attack when you use spirited charge?
I don't think so. It doesn't say that your mount can move hit move, just that you can.
Lets's say that your mount is a tiger with pounce :-)
Will this tiger do all its attacks and the continue moving?
If yes :-) what happens with attacks that have grab?
The ability of a mount to keep moving thanks to Ride by attack would be a general rule, not cart blanche to keep moving no matter what other conditions or obstacles lay beyond the person you're charging. So no, you can't pull a reeve richards and grapple from 30 feet away with this feat any more than the ability to keep moving lets you phase through a door.
Can you explain me a bit why if you have a weapon with reach then the mount can also attack and why it cannot if you have a normal weapon? I think that I have missed something there.
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2) Does the mount also attack when you use spirited charge?
If YES
Lets's say that your mount is a tiger with pounce :-)
Will this tiger do all its attacks and the continue moving?
If yes :-) what happens with attacks that have grab?
If you pass a DC 10 ride check and your mount stops next to the target it can pounce.
In order for your mount to be able to move and attack and move again, it would need Spring Attack, but you would be limited to the mount's base speed and it would be only one attack.
Personally I would say no to the grapple check, since you cannot move once you start a grapple.
I think that my misunderstandings are in an earlier stage :-(. Some questions to clarify.
1) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a longsword. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes or no.
2) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes or only he will attack? since he has reach?
3) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. He also has ride by attack. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes. First he attacks with reach, then the mount moves and then the mount attacks? OR THE mount will not attack at all?
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Well Spring Attack is a melee attack, and charge is a standard, so that won't work.
So you charge (a standard action) and do your Spirited Charge w/ Rideby Attack.
Your mount moves, you attack and then it moves again.
If your mount had Spring Attack, it could move, you get your charge off, your mount gets one attack, and then moves again.
To utilise Pounce, your mount needs to charge, not you.
As it is with Rideby Attack, your mount is simply moving.
If it has Trample and Imp Overrun, it can then utilise an attack in your charge.
Can you explain me a bit why if you have a weapon with reach then the mount can also attack and why it cannot if you have a normal weapon? I think that I have missed something there.
The mount CAN attack, but then it has to stop.
With the normal weapon if you were charging strait at the opponent, the mount HAS to stop at the opponent anyway: the mount is stopped there's no reason for it not to attack. If you have a lance, YOU can make the attack from 10 feet away, and keep moving. Depending on the angle you're attacking the opponent from you may or may not be able to run anywhere but strait at him.
2) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes or only he will attack? since he has reach?
Without ride by attack you have to stop 10 feet away from your target and attack (since you can't use the lance when you're adjacent to your opponent)
3) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. He also has ride by attack. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes. First he attacks with reach, then the mount moves and then the mount attacks? OR THE mount will not attack at all?
With ride by attack and a lance you can hit from 10 feet away and then have your horse continue the line of the charge (strait at the opponent)for another five feet and then hoof your opponent in the face. You and the horse are both charging.
Can you explain me a bit why if you have a weapon with reach then the mount can also attack and why it cannot if you have a normal weapon? I think that I have missed something there.The mount CAN attack, but then it has to stop.
With the normal weapon if you were charging strait at the opponent, the mount HAS to stop at the opponent anyway...
Have you got a reference for this ruling?
I think that my misunderstandings are in an earlier stage :-(. Some questions to clarify.
1) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a longsword. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes or no.
2) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes or only he will attack? since he has reach?
3) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. He also has ride by attack. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes. First he attacks with reach, then the mount moves and then the mount attacks? OR THE mount will not attack at all?
1) Yes. As long as the mount only takes one move action: moves and attacks, and the rider charges.
2) No. Unless your mount has reach also.
3) No. Unless your mount has Spring Attack.
Have you got a reference for this ruling?
Yeah.
Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
3) No. Unless your mount has Spring Attack.
IF the mount is stopping it doesnt need spring attack. YOU essentially have spring attack while mounted if you have ride by attack.
A page number would be handy with a reference.
Anyway, why do you have to move through a square to charge?
And what do you mean when you say:
3) A rider makes DC 10 Ride check in order to be able to attack and charges with his mount. He uses a lance. He also has ride by attack. Both him and the mount will make one attack at the target yes. First he attacks with reach, then the mount moves and then the mount attacks? OR THE mount will not attack at all?
With ride by attack and a lance you can hit from 10 feet away and then have your horse hoof your opponent in the face. You and the horse are both charging.
And in regards to your edit: the example had Rideby Attack. That's why the mount needed Spring Attack.
And in regards to your edit: the example had Rideby Attack. That's why the mount needed Spring Attack.
A mount doesn't need spring attack for the rider to have ride by attack. The mount doesn't spring attack in the case of a strait vertical or horizontal charge. The mount moves and attacks (as its allowed to) the Rider attacks mid move (as he's allowed to)
http://www.pathfinderreference.com/combat/movement.htm
-I don't know why you're questioning it. The inability to move through an opponent isn't exactly an obscure rule.
Okay, let's clear the air here.
If the rider wants to use Rideby Attack the mount has to take 2 move actions. right?
If the mount wants to also attack it must have Spring Attack to move, attack, move. right?
You don't know why i'm questioning why your mount has to enter an occupied square for you to charge? Am i misunderstanding something here?
I know you can't enter an occupied square, what i asked was why do you even have to?
Okay, let's clear the air here.
If the rider wants to use Rideby Attack the mount has to take 2 move actions. right?
No. The mount has to charge, not take 2 move actions.
If the mount wants to also attack it must have Spring Attack to move, attack, move. right?
That is correct. It does not need spring attack to move attack. The mount is charging if you are.
You don't know why i'm questioning why your mount has to enter an occupied square for you to charge? Am i misunderstanding something here?
Yes, you're misunderstanding something.
I am NOT saying that the mount has to enter an occupied square to charge. I am saying that when you use a lance, you do so from 10 feet away, so that when the horse advances another 5 feet its NOT in an occupied square, its in an ADJACENT square.
I know you can't enter an occupied square, what i asked was why do you even have to?
in the case of a strait vertical or horizontal charge, you WOULD have to stop because you HAVE to continue the line of the charge with ride by attack. If the battle mat is a chessboard and you charge from A2 to A 7 or from A2 to F2 you don't have any leeway about where to go.
if you start (here) -----> and your opponent is X (there)
You have two mutually contradictory requirements for movement: to continue the line and to have a non opponent occupied square. You can't veer to the left or the right. That means you need to stop.
When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can't exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.
Run
I see that you have understood the rules and that you are sure about them although I do not find them that clear in the book as I also did not in the old PHB of 3 and 3.5.
I am not trying to piss you off but honestly try to understand (the why behind the thing that I ask) and I thank you for you patience if you continue to answer. I will try to be as specific as I can in my examples.
1) When you wish to charge with your mount who charges? You, your mount or both? I know that you all receive the bonuses and penalties. I am asking about the actions spend. You spend a fullround action and your mount too?
From what I have read in rules I thought that the mount charges and you just make an attack at the end of the charge if you wish.
2) If only the mount charges, can you do anything you wish? Can for example the mount charge and attack someone while you are using a full-attack RANGE action to someone else?
3) I still cannot understand why the reach weapon stops the mount from attaching the target of the charge. The way I see it the mount charges a foe. You attack with your lance 10 feet away the foe and the mount then naturally finishes it charge adjacent to the foe and attacks him. What I see wrong here and why. My mistake is that the attack from the rider must happen at the end of the charge so if he attacks with the lance the charge of the mount has to end?
4) I remember from 3.5 that ride by attack worked differently and please correct me if I am wrong. I remember that you could charge adjacent a target. For example you are at A8 and your target at B4. while passing next to B4 you could hit him and then continue to move.
If this is impossible in pathfinder which probably is then what is the use of this FEAT? If most of the times you cannot find a straight line that would also allow you to continue your move then when it is used?
1) When you wish to charge with your mount who charges? You, your mount or both? I know that you all receive the bonuses and penalties. I am asking about the actions spend. You spend a fullround action and your mount too?
From what I have read in rules I thought that the mount charges and you just make an attack at the end of the charge if you wish.
Going by the posts above, i'm sure people disagree with my interpretation. However, the RAW only state that you charge while mounted. As i've demonstrated, your mount can charge at the same time, but otherwise all it's doing is moving (especially if you are using Rideby Attack).
2) If only the mount charges, can you do anything you wish? Can for example the mount charge and attack someone while you are using a full-attack RANGE action to someone else?
Without feats you could take a standard action.
3) I still cannot understand why the reach weapon stops the mount from attaching the target of the charge. The way I see it the mount charges a foe. You attack with your lance 10 feet away the foe and the mount then naturally finishes it charge adjacent to the foe and attacks him. What I see wrong here and why. My mistake is that the attack from the rider must happen at the end of the charge so if he attacks with the lance the charge of the mount has to end?
Because once you've completed your charge (again, without Rideby Attack) you must end your movement.
4) I remember from 3.5 that ride by attack worked differently and please correct me if I am wrong. I remember that you could charge adjacent a target. For example you are at A8 and your target at B4. while passing next to B4 you could hit him and then continue to move.
If this is impossible in pathfinder which probably is then what is the use of this FEAT? If most of the times you cannot find a straight line that would also allow you to continue your move then when it is used?
Not sure i understand your question. I'll take a punt.
Rideby Attack allows you to finish your movement after your charge (a standard action). If you can't do so without entering their square you must overrun (also a standard). Since you can't do both, a Rideby Attack charge must not enter occupied squares.
Tanis regarding question 4. You say it is a Standard action. What do you mean? Which one? The charge or what is left after the charge?
Can you give me a full example of what actions and when the rider and the mount takes when the rider hits with a lance and the mount overruns the target?
Tanis regarding question 4. You say it is a Standard action. What do you mean? Which one? The charge or what is left after the charge?
Can you give me a full example of what actions and when the rider and the mount takes when the rider hits with a lance and the mount overruns the target?
The rider makes a Ride check to fight with a combat trained mount (a free action), charges (a standard) and may take a move action at any point.
Meanwhile, the mount moves (a move action), and Overruns (a standard action).
Thanks both of you. One last question. Why Tanis do you say that when the rider charges spends a standard action? Isn't that a full-round action? This is why I couldn't understand where the extra standard action where found in order to Overrun with the mount.
Ah, m'bad. Charging as a standard is only when you're restricted to a standard.
I need sleep lol
Ah, m'bad. Charging as a standard is only when you're restricted to a standard.
I need sleep lol
NOOOOOO if you sleep I will loose my main target for my question bombarding storm spell.
Just kidding m8 have a nice sleep and thanks again for passing by my thread :-)
1) When you wish to charge with your mount who charges? You, your mount or both? I know that you all receive the bonuses and penalties. I am asking about the actions spend. You spend a fullround action and your mount too?
You both spend a full round action and charge. No five foot stepping for either of you because you're going to move.
The mount can charge also.
Under mounted combat:
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
(since you have the benefits and drawbacks of your mount charging, there's no discernable difference between that and if your mount charges you're charging)
It doesn't SAY that you can charge without your mount...but i think that they call that walking.
1b) From what I have read in rules I thought that the mount charges and you just make an attack at the end of the charge if you wish.
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after
Sometimes that's what happens. But lets say you're using a lance. Your mount charges the kobold and hoofs him in the face. Now you can't use the lance on the kobold because the lance is a reach weapon, and reach weapons can't be used against people adjacent to them. You can't lance 10 feet out and then move because your attack has to come at the end of the charge.
2) If only the mount charges, can you do anything you wish? Can for example the mount charge and attack someone while you are using a full-attack RANGE action to someone else?
I believe not.
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
There's nothing that says you can take ranged attacks while your mount is charging, just while they're moving.
3) I still cannot understand why the reach weapon stops the mount from attaching the target of the charge. The way I see it the mount charges a foe. You attack with your lance 10 feet away the foe and the mount then naturally finishes it charge adjacent to the foe and attacks him. What I see wrong here and why. My mistake is that the attack from the rider must happen at the end of the charge so if he attacks with the lance the charge of the mount has to end?
That's correct. the attack has to be at the end of the charge. Without ride-by attack there's no provision for making the attack in the middle.
4) I remember from 3.5 that ride by attack worked differently and please correct me if I am wrong. I remember that you could charge adjacent a target.
If this is impossible in pathfinder which probably is then what is the use of this FEAT? If most of the times you cannot find a straight line that would also allow you to continue your move then when it is used?
The rules haven't changed. The problem is the RAW about how you charge (which appears to be copy pasted from 3.5) and the requirements for
a) charging directly at the opponent and
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent
b) charging to the nearest square from which you can attack an opponent
You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent
Trying to meet these two conditions quite often leaves you pointed strait at the bad guy, so that when Ride by attack lets you "continue the line of the charge" that line... is a dead end.
For example you are at A8 and your target at B4. while passing next to B4 you could hit him and then continue to move.
For ease of use i'm going to assume that you're using a sword.
This gets a little subjective.As a DM i would favor any interpretation that allows the player to use his feat.
The question here is "whats the closest square?" and what counts as "directly towards" the opponent? A5 and B5 are both 3 squares away. A strait line from A8 to B4 goes more into B5 than A5, meaning you might have to move to B5 in order to charge directly at the badguy. A line from where you started to B5 continues into b4... an occupied square. (ride by attack forces you to continue the line of the charge)
I would consider moving from A8 to A5 close enough to moving directly at the opponent and allow the mount to keep running to A4 aa5 a6 a7 etc.
Ah, m'bad. Charging as a standard is only when you're restricted to a standard.
I need sleep lol
NOOOOOO if you sleep I will loose my main target for my question bombarding storm spell.
Just kidding m8 have a nice sleep and thanks again for passing by my thread :-)
k, i'm back. post a new thread regarding your question and i'll do my best to help.
Thank you very much both of you :-)