New Campaign - looking for help with non-combat XP

[Peter Overton]

Hi all,

This is my first post here!

I'm starting a Pathfinder campaign in the new year (once my current 3.5 campaign winds up).
Over the past year or so our D&D campaigns have been rather combat focused and I'd like to switch that around a bit given the terrific story lines the Pathfinder Campaign paths seem to have.

What I'm intending to do is use the medium level progression table and give XP for non-combat events (diplomacy, bluff, great skill checks etc).
Has anyone tried this before and, if so, what sort of XP awards would be appropriate without unbalancing the XP progression?

I was thinking around 50XP for a successful skill check where the effect of the check was important or done under pressure and ramping up from there for more dramatic events to around 200XP. These awards are given ONLY to the PC that made the check - not the whole party so it's an individual reward for effort.

Would I be best setting a kind of CR for each challenge or developing a DC to CR table vs Lvl (i.e. a DC 25 skill check might get 100XP at 3rd level but only 50XP at 10th).

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Mr.Fishy]

Do your players know what your planing? Two, do you have a group of roleplayers that love acting in character or a mix of different types of players?

As for the XP 50/level for a challenge awarded to the group might work better less math for you and less chance that one character surpasses the group.

It's a good idea and fun for a small group that is willing to play. But the Xp can be a pain. It's difficult to judge the challenge of a single die roll. Also if one person isn't interested it can be a problem.

Mr. Fishy likes to do mysteries. Each clue is worth xp solving the mystery gains a story award 100/level per person. The more clues the more xp and the better chance for the pay off.

Mr. Fishy has a house with ghost. The object is to put them to rest by finding what the miss from life. Each ghost is worth xp and a treasure. If all the ghost are laid to rest the characters each get a treasure. Mr. Fishy let the players keep the house the ghost haunt.

GOOD LUCK!

Try a one shot if the group likes it, go for it.

[Peter Overton]

The guys do know about it. I'm interested to get them to try other solutions to problems than "stick a sword in it".
I figure making the awards individual will encourage it too as you can advance your own PC by trying stuff out.

[Mr.Fishy]

Peter Overton wrote:

The guys do know about it. I'm interested to get them to try other solutions to problems than "stick a sword in it".

I figure making the awards individual will encourage it too as you can advance your own PC by trying stuff out.

Mr. Fishy would advise starting small.

Give awards for good ideas. But award the challenge to the party. That way you reward good play and avoid hero and sidekick syndrome. You know your group, so do as you think best.

[Joana]

If the PCs get around a planned combat by using skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, Stealth, etc.), then give them XPs as if they had won that combat (which, by avoiding it, they did).

If someone comes up with something really neat and original to do with RP and/or skills, I sometimes give an award equal to a CR-equivalent encounter. Alternatively, I like to give in-game rewards for good roleplay. As an example, the PCs in my campaign recently met a ghost who was only there as background flavor text; he was a smith who had died before he had finished forging his last sword. One PC decided to put his spirit to rest, did a great deal of research about the smith's life, and when he levelled put skill points into Craft Arms and Armor just so he could finish the sword and place it on the smith's son's grave. The ghost smith appeared, thanked the PC, and gave him the blade which became a ghost-touch weapon.

[Ryan Richter]

A problem might be that some of your characters aren't as interested in non-combat challenges. If they don't take the XP cheese, then they may get more and more alienated from the group during these sessions where they don't do as well.
The main point is to know your players will they enjoy competing for skill based XP. Because if not letting the party share the XP still provides an incentive but doesn't leave anyone behind. Which may make this more palatable for your combat minded players.
The main point is to keep things fair and fun for everyone. Make sure your rewards don't just allow one or two players to outshine the rest of the players for more than one session or segment at a time.
Also make sure your players know that they need to work with you if they want a chance to shine. this can include a more fleshed out back story that you can mine for plot hooks. but if they want to be the quiet bad-ass with no past and a big sword 'let them'. Players will be as involved or uninvolved as they want to be just let them know that if they are or become disruptive to other players moments that there will be consequences.

Bottom line listen to and respect your players, but ask that they listen to and respect you. you'll have less problem moments and the problems that do come up will be easier to deal with.

[Ryan Richter]

Joana wrote:

If the PCs get around a planned combat by using skills (Diplomacy, Bluff, Stealth, etc.), then give them XPs as if they had won that combat (which, by avoiding it, they did).

the only thing to worry about is if they then decide to fight them anyway.

Though as a GM one can usually tell if they are doing it for extra XP or for story related reasons, and act acordingly.

[Peter Overton]

The players seem keen - or at least they did when I suggested it. I know the guys pretty well (We've been playing D&D since 1979!) and I think they are looking forward to the change.
I must say the Pathfinder rules seem great and it's largely the depth of the modules that have lead me down this path.
I picked up Souls for Smugglers Shiv last week and I am very, very pleased by the style and writing of the book.

[Gui_Shih]

Welcome!

My particular system isn't for everyone, but you may find elements you'd like to use.

In my own game, I use the slow XP progression and use an XP award system similar to that of 2nd edition. It takes a bit of book work, but its worth it to me. Warning: I don't care about balance. I should also note that I typically award about 1/10 the normal amount of treasure. Here are the guidelines I use:

Group awards are divided evenly amongst the party.

Group Awards
------------
Enemies Defeated (Per CR x 0.5)
Story Award (Per CR = APL x 2)
Non-magical Treasure (1 XP per GP)

I decide what is worth a story award before the game. I limit them to concrete goals that work to increase the PCs fame/infamy (rescued the princess, defeated the evil wizard, saved the village).

Individual Awards
-----------------
Clever Idea (50 – 100)
Saved the Party (100 – 500)
Good Roleplaying (100 – 200)
Encouraged Participation (100 – 200)
Single Combat (Per CR x 0.5)
Items Created (magical) (200 x CL)
Items Created (non-magical) (1 XP per GP)
Enemies Defeated (brb, fig, pal, rng) (HD x 10 x Lvl)
Successful use of granted power (clr, drd) (100)
Spells cast to further ethos (clr, drd) (100 per Sp. Lv.)
Spells cast to overcome obstacles (sor, wiz) (50 per Sp. Lv.)
Successful spell research (wiz) (500 per Sp. Lv.)
Successful use of skill (rog, mnk, brd) (200)
Treasure obtained (rog, brd) (2 XP per GP)
Enemies Defeated (monk, bard) (HD x 5)

I also give a bonus for having a 16 or better in "Prime Abilities" as follows:

Bar (Str, Con)
Brd (Dex, Cha)
Clr (Wis)
Drd (Wis, Cha)
Fig (Str)
Mnk (Wis)
Pal (Str, Cha)
Rng (Str, Dex, Wis)
Rog (Dex)
Sor (Cha)
Wiz (Int)

Believe it or not, the PCs still level up at pretty much the same rate they did before. The player's feel like their characters aren't necessarily tied to the group and have motivation to think about and pursue their own agendas. This might seem like a nightmare to work with as a GM, but it has actually given me more to work with.