Alright, I need some help with something. An idea I have been toying around with for a while is running a low-magic game. When I say “low-magic” I mean that at best there would be 1 spell casting class that isn’t a prestige class and nobody is going to be finding magic items until level 10+ without some truly astounding RP. DR ?/Magic will actually mean something.
Now I don’t want to take away all the fancy shiny gear and not give the players anything. So I plan to include weapons and armor in my game that are of superior craftsmanship. In essence with a sufficient skill check it is possible to make +1, +2, +etc. armor and weapons that are non-magical.
Now I have to decide a few things 1) special abilities other than a +x bonus, 2) what craft check is needed for what ability/bonus and 3) what should all this cost. Some special abilities that I have already decided to include:
Serrated: +1 crit range (debated whether it should stack with improved crit)
Laminated: +1 crit multiplier (This the classic x hundred times folded Katana)
Custom Fitted: +1 max dex, -1 armor check
Also to get a more realistic money system I will be down grading the costs in the PH to silver pieces and change the copper:silver:gold ratios from 1:10:100 to 1:100:10000.
So any suggestions of other armor/weapon abilities, general pricing schemes and/or craft DCs would be appreciated. Also if you have any other ideas for items that would be useful to include, particularly alchemical ones, please feel free to post them.
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If you want more realistic costs it would be more like 1-5-10-25... Or does that only work for change in the US? (Sorry for the snark... I always thought it was weird it didn't go the *other* way, with some "special" currency that was only for the extremely rich like when banks had single bills that represented thousands).
Also, might I recommend that instead of only having one casting class you fuse casting into one list? A bit more complicated but at least gives your player some options in class features. (I have done this very thing and have some rules posted on a wiki, if you care.)
Or at least just make the magic classes considered extremely rare, to the point that none realize that they use magic differently because they don't encounter each-other.
The crafting stuff I'll have to give more thought to...
If you want more realistic costs it would be more like 1-5-10-25... Or does that only work for change in the US? (Sorry for the snark... I always thought it was weird it didn't go the *other* way, with some "special" currency that was only for the extremely rich like when banks had single bills that represented thousands).
Also, might I recommend that instead of only having one casting class you fuse casting into one list? A bit more complicated but at least gives your player some options in class features. (I have done this very thing and have some rules posted on a wiki, if you care.)
Or at least just make the magic classes considered extremely rare, to the point that none realize that they use magic differently because they don't encounter each-other.
The crafting stuff I'll have to give more thought to...
The reason for the "one class" comment was that I'm debating between 2 settings. One would have no spell casters at all (unless you are UTTERLY evil), but would have "psionics" that would resemble the dragon mark tattoos from Eberon. The setting is the one from The War God's Own series by David Weber.
The other setting has a disaster 200+ years in the past destroying 99.999999% of magic items and cutting off all magic except for druid magic (which might get limited slightly). In this setting arcane and cleric magic are "lost" magics that could rediscovered as prestige classes.
One idea is to explore the possibilities for alternative materials. Would there still be Mithral, Cold Iron and the like? Even though magic isn't being manipulated by mortals, is it still around in the form of magical materials?
If so, my players had fun with a poisonous metal I called Blighted Steel. Weapons made from it always counted as poisoned with a rather mild toxin. As the weapon was enchanted, the DC and ability damage of the poison went up.
As for interesting alchemical items, two from Kingdoms of Kalamar stand out- Smotherblende and Dragonhide. Smotherblende was little bottles of fire-extinguishing foaming agent that covered an entire 5' square. Dragonhide came in tins, and once applied to wooden objects (usually shields) it coated them in a hardened shell, improved their hardness and hitpoints for either a day or a week, I can't remember which. Considering the low-magic nature of the campaign, it would make sense for foes to be more fond of sundering than normal.
If I remember correctly, Bastion Press had a book dealing with Herbalism. Offering the players some skill-based herbal remedies for ailments in the absence of healing magic might be a worthwhile addition. Laurefindel also had some herbalism material around the boards somewhere...
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If so, my players had fun with a poisonous metal I called Blighted Steel. Weapons made from it always counted as poisoned with a rather mild toxin. As the weapon was enchanted, the DC and ability damage of the poison went up.
Dude... I need to ninja the blighted steel concept in general. That's frickin' awesome.
What I'd say, for the DCs, is that each +1 adds a +10 to the DC to craft - that way, they take a lot longer, and even though the DCs are super high for the good ones, you can have people assist to make sure you hit the DC...but it'll still take forever. For pricing, just use the magic weapon price scheme - you basically have them acting exactly the same, but not being magical. Maybe lower it a bit because of not piercing DR/magic.
One thing to note - you really should swap your serrated and "laminated". A serrated blade would be less likely to get a crit (cause of the serrations getting hung up on stuff), but if it did, it'd be nasty (cause they'd rip the flesh apart), whereas a folded blade like that can be sharpened to a point that a non-folded one can't (not actually, but it'll hold that edge much better so it's viable in combat, whereas for non-folded you'd just lose the edge almost immediately), so it'd crit a lot more often, but when it did crit it wouldn't really do any more damage than usual (cuts through the flesh easier, not in a more devastating manner).
The setting is the one from The War God's Own series by David Weber.
My favorite series ever. I'm curious as to your magic restriction, though, at least in terms of existence, not player selection. There's a fair amount of magic in Weber's world, and while the majority of it is divinely-based, no longer replicable, or the domain of the sinister, not all mages are actually evil . . . although all societies look upon them as such, with the exception of a certain wild wizard . . .
I love the idea of the gold system. It's something I've always wanted to do but have never had the time to play around with. I like it more in terms of realism, also in that I like the idea of a gold coin being worth something. Silver is already the basis of economy in D&D/Pathfinder, but a 10:10:10 system makes that mean very little. Adventurers lugging around 40,000 gold coins has always seemed a little bleh to me. I especially liked, for instance, in Dragon Age, where a single gold crown was given out as a reward, and it was a big deal. ;-)
However, if you want a really simplified system for what you're trying to do, allow nonmagical items to function in the same manner as magical items. It's not something I, myself, like for a low-magic setting, but it's simple and easy. Instead of a +2 keen longsword, you have a "Superior Masterwork Serrated Longsword" that has the same bonuses.
If you dislike this idea, you will, sadly, have to rewrite a large amount of the magical bonuses into nonmagical form. One thing I would advise you to not alter, however, is the interaction between threat range and critical multiplier enhancers. +1 threat range is not the same as +1 critical multiplier. You need to double threat range to make it on par with a single critical multiplier increase, unless your goal is to create a disparity where one is cheaper and less effective.
In terms of craft check DCs, the magical item creation guidelines are a good, well, guideline to use. Base the craft DC off what a similar magical item would take to create. For example, a +2 keen longsword would be a DC 15 spellcraft check. For crafting, I'd say make it 5 + (6 for +2) + (10 for "keen") = 21, having them stack rather than overlap. Or not, if you prefer the easier DC. Just keep in mind that the crafting system is based on the idea that you may have to increase the DC by +5 for a prerequisite you don't have, and this isn't something that will come up in a non-magical crafting setting.
For new abilities...let's see...well, you could replicate some things. Holy and Ghost Touch, for instance, could be weapons whose material was blessed by a major member of a good faith/angel/etc., while Unholy could be one that was quenched in the blood of the pure (probably children or something). Wounding would be designed in some way as to cause wounds that bleed profusely (serrated again would do this, but you already have that being used).
To get the serrated/folded effect for non-slashing, you could have, say, mercurial (filled with mercury or some other liquid metal so as to increase the momentum of a swing) as serrated for blunt, broadhead (wider than normal head on the spear or arrow or whatever) as serrated for piercing, flanged as folded for blunt, and bodkin as folded for piercing. Note that you really shouldn't allow those to stack, though (serrated folded makes no sense, for example, likewise broadhead bodkin - the different design features would counteract each other).
The setting is the one from The War God's Own series by David Weber.My favorite series ever. I'm curious as to your magic restriction, though, at least in terms of existence, not player selection. There's a fair amount of magic in Weber's world, and while the majority of it is divinely-based, no longer replicable, or the domain of the sinister, not all mages are actually evil . . . although all societies look upon them as such, with the exception of a certain wild wizard . . .
I've read them a couple times (they are pretty damn awesome, although I like his Honor Harrington series a bit mroe) and it seemed pretty clear to me that the only good wizard is that Wild Wizard. All the others are Servants of Carnadosa since they'll only teach their own and Wincint isn't teaching anyone.
There are a lot of examples in the book of champions of the gods who are given powers, but those powers aren't like spell casting. Plus they wouldn't be available at level 1. You have to earn them.
There is definately a lot of supernatural things going on, but not a lot of "magic" in the sense that D&D usually defines it.
What I'd say, for the DCs, is that each +1 adds a +10 to the DC to craft - that way, they take a lot longer, and even though the DCs are super high for the good ones, you can have people assist to make sure you hit the DC...but it'll still take forever. For pricing, just use the magic weapon price scheme - you basically have them acting exactly the same, but not being magical. Maybe lower it a bit because of not piercing DR/magic.
One thing to note - you really should swap your serrated and "laminated". A serrated blade would be less likely to get a crit (cause of the serrations getting hung up on stuff), but if it did, it'd be nasty (cause they'd rip the flesh apart), whereas a folded blade like that can be sharpened to a point that a non-folded one can't (not actually, but it'll hold that edge much better so it's viable in combat, whereas for non-folded you'd just lose the edge almost immediately), so it'd crit a lot more often, but when it did crit it wouldn't really do any more damage than usual (cuts through the flesh easier, not in a more devastating manner).
Good point about the laminated/serrated. I was stealing them from the Mercenary book by AEG. I do like the options for other ways to do it for other weapons. A lot of the usual modifiers are going to be going the way of the dodo. I'm trying to brainstorm new modifiers that might be doable non-magically. Please keep the good ideas coming. I can see the wounding being one some special weapons, like hooked daggers, hooked arrow tips, something like that.
I will probably be going with the +10 DC for now. Pretty simple to handle.
One idea is to explore the possibilities for alternative materials. Would there still be Mithral, Cold Iron and the like? Even though magic isn't being manipulated by mortals, is it still around in the form of magical materials?
If so, my players had fun with a poisonous metal I called Blighted Steel. Weapons made from it always counted as poisoned with a rather mild toxin. As the weapon was enchanted, the DC and ability damage of the poison went up.
As for interesting alchemical items, two from Kingdoms of Kalamar stand out- Smotherblende and Dragonhide. Smotherblende was little bottles of fire-extinguishing foaming agent that covered an entire 5' square. Dragonhide came in tins, and once applied to wooden objects (usually shields) it coated them in a hardened shell, improved their hardness and hitpoints for either a day or a week, I can't remember which. Considering the low-magic nature of the campaign, it would make sense for foes to be more fond of sundering than normal.
If I remember correctly, Bastion Press had a book dealing with Herbalism. Offering the players some skill-based herbal remedies for ailments in the absence of healing magic might be a worthwhile addition. Laurefindel also had some herbalism material around the boards somewhere...
I remember Kingdom of Kalamar, tons of good ideas but I don't think I kept the books. I did up a long list of special materials for my 3.5 game. I haven't been using it recently because I need to take a very long look at the power level. Thankfully with the limits on spell casting and item crafting that will be a LOT easier to balance. I do like the Blighted Metal a lot, didn't have anything like that on my list. This stuff won't be as rare as magical weapons (depending on which setting) they will still be pretty rare.
The setting is the one from The War God's Own series by David Weber.My favorite series ever. I'm curious as to your magic restriction, though, at least in terms of existence, not player selection. There's a fair amount of magic in Weber's world, and while the majority of it is divinely-based, no longer replicable, or the domain of the sinister, not all mages are actually evil . . . although all societies look upon them as such, with the exception of a certain wild wizard . . .
I've read them a couple times (they are pretty damn awesome, although I like his Honor Harrington series a bit mroe) and it seemed pretty clear to me that the only good wizard is that Wild Wizard. All the others are Servants of Carnadosa since they'll only teach their own and Wincint isn't teaching anyone.
There are a lot of examples in the book of champions of the gods who are given powers, but those powers aren't like spell casting. Plus they wouldn't be available at level 1. You have to earn them.
There is definately a lot of supernatural things going on, but not a lot of "magic" in the sense that D&D usually defines it.
It's been a few years since I've read them, but I don't exaggerate when I say it's my favorite series. Wencit is the last wild wizard, and no more of his ilk will appear, unless something unexpected causes it. There are a wide variety of supernatural effects, as you yourself said, including the dwarven stoneshapers and similar Cleaving Point powers. And most of the **evidenced** good-guy-magic is divinely based. Powers granted to the wielder by one of the gods (the bad guys do have analagous champions). Bahzell himself is basically a paladin (and Weber has called him as much, outside the book, at least), and he channels Tomanak's divine energies. This isn't really any different from a Pathfinder cleric or paladin except in aesthetic. Personally, I'd always seen D&D paladins working exactly as Weber described his working, anyway.
If I recall correctly, however, and, again, this IS something I could be mistaken on, as it has been a good three years since I last read the book, and I've only read it about five times, servants of Carnadosa are not necessarily evil. While Carnadosa is, "wand wizards" aren't necessarily. A "good" wand wizard would basically be unheard of, but neutral ones would be fairly common, although priests of Carnadosa would most assuredly be evil (they'd be cleric/wizards).
The bad name that wand wizards and those that use blood magic receive in Weber's wonderful world comes mostly from how they draw their energy from the world. Wencit can use the raw, wild energy of nonliving things, but the strongest source of energy is people. It's alive and, well, basically vibrating on the same frequency already. It's like an electrical current that you Don't need an alternator for. And all of this energy is released in a single explosive burst upon death, which can be harnessed by a waiting wizard. Hence, the VAST majority of these wizards practice blood magic to increase their power. It's not actually a necessity to do such a thing, though, and I believe that Weber has hinted that there are some at least non evil wizards in the world, but has stated that the vast majority of them succumb to the desire for more power, slaughtering people to harness their life energy. And it is important to note that regardless of their actual alignment, ANY wizard that ISN'T Wencit will automatically be assumed as evil, due to how the dark gods and their magic sacked Kontovar. Politically, and legally, all wizards are evil (again, except Wencit). Morally, that's not necessarily the case.
But that's actually neither here nor there, since your world is as loosely or specifically based upon his as you desire it to be, and it's your world and your decisions. I just wanted to wax pedantic. ;-)
I'm really going to have to go read those books again. Been a while . . .
Here I a suggestion to non-magic enhancements
Acid wash (+4 save vs acid, rust, disintegration)
Alchemical chamber (Add Alchemical flask to dam)
Armor razors (Deals 1d6 Slashing)
Armor spikes (Deals 1d6 Piercing)
Barbed (2 pts Dam 1d4 rnds addition hit extend duration)
Bashing (Bash deal dam as if two sizes larger (1d3=1d6 and 1d4=1d8)
Basket hilt (+4 vs Disarm, +1 AC with Combat Expertise)
Bayonet (Deals 1d6 x2 Ranged -8 to hit and 1/2 incerment)
Bladeshatter (When any non axe, hammer or mace fails a attack roll by 10 or more the weapon tke 1d8 dam by passes hardness)
Blood groove (Casues 1 bleed dam every round)
Bow stablizers (+1 To hit)
Bowstring silencer (Make bow totally silent but reducing its range increment by 10ft/2in)
Buoyancy (-1 Check pen when swimming)
Camouflage (+4 to Stealth)
Caster armor (-5% Spell fail)
Crossbow shield (A small shield is attached to the crossbow +1 AC)
Crossbow/Musket scope (Reduce range penality by 1)
Deceptive (+4 Sleight of hand)
Dwarven forged armor (+2 AC -1 Check pen +10% spell fail)
Dwarvencraft weapon (Increase dam by 1 level +2 Hardness, saves, +10 HP )
Elven craft bow (Functions like a club when use as a melee weapon)
Elven forged armor (+1 Max dex -1 Check pen -10% spell fail)
Embossed (+2 to Gather info if stolen)
Enhanced bracing (+2 Dam set againt a charge)
Extended chain (+4 to Trip flails,chain, and whips and +5ft/1in to spiked chain and whips)
Extended Haft (+5ft/1in Reach)
Fast-Donning/Quick release Straps (No increased check penalty, -1 AC, Standard action to remove armor)
Fire retardant I (Fire resistance 5)
Fire retardant II (Fire resistance 10)
Folded weapon (+4 to Hardness)
Forestwarden Shroud (Negating the effect that undergrowth has on the wearer's Acrobatics and Stealth)
Grounded (Electical restance 5)
Heavy (+2 HP +1 Dam -2 to hit)
Heavy pommel (+2 to Parry)
Interlocking Plate (+2 to AC when moving no more the 5ft/1in)
Iron Sight crossbow/musket (+1 To hit)
Light (+2 To hit -1 Dam -1 HP/Hardness)
Lightweight (Lower category of armor type by 1, +5ft/1in movement, and reduce AC, check pen by 1)
Lined (Cold resistance 5)
Mercurial (+1 Dam)
Muffling (+4 to Stealth -2 to other dex skills)
Ornate/Savage (+1 to +5 either /or Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Penetrating (+4 to Sunder)
Percise fitting (-1 to check pen +1 max dex +1 Bluff and Diplomacy)
Perfect balance (+1 AC when taking total defence)
Perfect weighted (+5ft/1in thrown range incerment)
Pistol (Add a pistol to the weapon 2d4 x3 Range 5ft/1in)
Quick quiver (+1 to Initive when using a bow)
Razor sharp/Honed (+1 to critacal threat range)
Reinforced (25% chance of negating any precision damage)
Resilient (+5 HP)
Riding Straps (+1 to Ride)
Rifiled Barrel (+1 To hit +10ft/2in range incerment)
Rusted (-1 Dam, -1 HP, -2 Hardness, -2 save vs rust plus rust disease)
Segmented (+1 Max dex)
Serrated (2 pts Dam 1d4 rnds addition hit extend duration)
Shield blade/axe (Deals +1d4 slashing dam )
Shield sheath (Holds one light weapon drawing the weapon in the shield sheath is a free action and Free feint attempt)
Shield spikes (Deals +1d4 piercing dam)
Spidersilk (Make armor usable by monks, rouge, and ninjas)
Spring-loaded dagger (1d4/19-20x2 can launch Range 5ft/1in +5 to Sleight of hand)
Stability (+4 vs Bull rush +10% spell fail -1 max dex)
Teather (+4 vs disarm and if disarmed you do not drop weapon)
Tempered armor I (DR 1/-)
Tempered armor II (DR 2/-)
Tempered armor III (DR 3/-)
Tempered armor IV (DR 4/-)
Tempered armor V (DR 5/-)
Thin blade (+2 to diarm and bluff -2 dam)
Thunderhead (Add a blackpower charge to weapon +2d4 Dam)
Weapon pair (Reduce two weapon penality by 1 a matched pair of a normal and light weapon)
Vital coverage I (+2 AC vs crit effects)
Vital coverage II (+4 AC vs crit effects)
Alright, I need some help with something. An idea I have been toying around with for a while is running a low-magic game. When I say “low-magic” I mean that at best there would be 1 spell casting class that isn’t a prestige class and nobody is going to be finding magic items until level 10+ without some truly astounding RP. DR ?/Magic will actually mean something.
In a low magic campaign bane weapons are usually a pretty thematic way of dealing with one monster without going overboard on power for others. They could also be worth questing for, because if you can't get through the dragons damage reduction the chances of you living are nil.
Keen is a good effect that doesn't look magical , just absurdly sharp.
Mighty cleaving is a nice, hidden boost, and since no one aoe's probably handy
Throwing is thematic. (throwing your sword always works), its just kind of limited in use.
Vicious demonstrates the dangers inherent in a magic weapon. Can be a snake on the pommel of the sword that bites the wielder.
Just houserule them so they don't need to be +1 weapons before the enhancement.
2) what craft check is needed for what ability/bonus
Use the rules for master craftsman, which is probably how magic items are being made in your world anyway.
Serrated: +1 crit range (debated whether it should stack with improved crit)
A +1 to crit range disproportionately assists weapons with high crit multipliers and low crit ranges (like axes)
Laminated: +1 crit multiplier (This the classic x hundred times folded Katana)
Disproportionately helps weapons with large crit ranges.
Custom Fitted: +1 max dex, -1 armor check
Basically master work armor. Can you retrofit it for say, 10% of the cost of the armor?
Posting so I can find this later.
List of cool stuff!
Those are all very cool. Can these be found in published material or are they your own homebrew creations?
List of cool stuff!Those are all very cool. Can these be found in published material or are they your own homebrew creations?
I have searched and searched many books and differnet systems to come up with that list. I can email you a full list of the items I dont have what books thay came from but I do have theirs gp cost/what they can be applied to/the restriction thy have as well.
I have searched and searched many books and differnet systems to come up with that list. I can email you a full list of the items I dont have what books thay came from but I do have theirs gp cost/what they can be applied to/the restriction thy have as well.List of cool stuff!Those are all very cool. Can these be found in published material or are they your own homebrew creations?
Yes, I would like that very much. This is good work. Thank you.
No problem just give an email I can send it too.
If you wouldn't mind, shoot me a copy: jonahandw at yahoo
No problem just give an email I can send it too.
Yeah, thanks a lot. Lakesidefantasy at yahoo.