I've always loved Goblins from warcraft (especially Goblin Tinkers), so I'm wondering if other then an added ability mod for the gobbos would they be usable as is???
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I've always loved Goblins from warcraft (especially Goblin Tinkers), so I'm wondering if other then an added ability mod for the gobbos would they be usable as is???
Come up with some favored class bonuses?
I'd say drop the dex bonus to +2 and give no negative to cha, and maybe a +2 to craft alchemy and mechanical or something.
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I've always loved Goblins from warcraft (especially Goblin Tinkers), so I'm wondering if other then an added ability mod for the gobbos would they be usable as is???
I would scratch their stat bonuses altogether and give them the optional +2 where the player wants it. In addition I'd give them +2 to appraise and knowledge (Engineering) and have them always function as a class skills.
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I've always loved Goblins from warcraft (especially Goblin Tinkers), so I'm wondering if other then an added ability mod for the gobbos would they be usable as is???
For Warcraft-y Goblins, I'd go with -2 Str and +2 Dex, for sure, and probably, to be Pathfinder-consistent, assign the +2 floating mental attribute bonus to Intelligence or Charisma. Warcraft Goblins are hardly wise, in any event, being prone to creating fun devices that have a chance of blowing up and affecting / killing their user.
Intelligence would be a natural fit with their engineering skills, matched in the WoW-verse only by the Gnomes.
Charisma would explain how the little rodents have managed to impress the Orcs (nominally in charge of the Horde) into admitting them, when the Orcs are currently consolidating control of Ogrimmar for the tougher races and inviting the Undead and Blood Elves to go hang out in wussville.
If they have an Intelligence bonus, adding a +2 racial Craft / Disable Device bonus on top of that might make them pretty darn awesome at that line of work. I'd be inclined to give them a +2 racial bonus to Bluff checks as well. They seem to be pretty sneaky little blighters, fond of rooking each other out of anything they can swindle, connive or steal.
Other stuff as you'd expect; size Small, 30 ft. landspeed (small races don't run slower in Warcraft), low-light vision (nobody has darkvision in Warcraft, either).
You might like this, it's not exactly a WoW Goblin, but they're pretty close. I made them for my monster campaign.
I was planning on converting the actual WoW RPG rules so I could use them together with the Tinker class.
I was originally gonna go with:
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str
Size: small
speed: 30 (seeing as regular goblins in Pathfinder are fast)
Low-Light Vision
+3 on all Craft (Technological Device) and is always a class skill
+2 on all Craft (alchemy), Diplomacy and perception checks which are class skills for all of them
1 extra Technology Feat at 1st level
How does that sound???
(oh and thanks mdt for the Forge Goblins. I might actually end up using them)
If they have an Intelligence bonus, adding a +2 racial Craft / Disable Device bonus on top of that might make them pretty darn awesome at that line of work. I'd be inclined to give them a +2 racial bonus to Bluff checks as well. They seem to be pretty sneaky little blighters, fond of rooking each other out of anything they can swindle, connive or steal.Other stuff as you'd expect; size Small, 30 ft. landspeed (small races don't run slower in Warcraft), low-light vision (nobody has darkvision in Warcraft, either).
I'd agree with this. Having a wide number of class skills from racial sources doesn't really make sense to me. If they are going to use the skills let the player take a class to get them. Even in a tinker society some goblins would have other roles. I'd limit it to one class skill bonus.
If you're giving them a plus to the primary stat for a skill that's already a bonus that keeps on giving. I'd do one or the other. To begin with at least give their strengths one recognition not overlapping bonuses.
Then I'd keep the land speed etc...
I'd lose the int bonus or the Int based class bonuses in your version.
Maybe add a racial trait or feat.
Ok the Goblins I'll change them (or maybe use Forge Goblins), but it still leaves one of my questions un-answered: what about the Tinker class from the WoW d20 RPG?
I can do without the Goblins but I'd like to know if the Tinker class is over/under-powered and the like.
How powerful they are depends largely on how much tinkering they get to do. Personally, I don't like the rule mechanic so I'd never use them.
They're medium BAB and otherwise largely equivalent of a pathfinder rogue. If their tinkering is more powerful than a rogues gifts they're overpowered. If less then they might be underpowered.
You might avoid the question and use the Pathfinder Artificer, either from Paizo or Adamant Games.
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How powerful they are depends largely on how much tinkering they get to do. Personally, I don't like the rule mechanic so I'd never use them.
They're medium BAB and otherwise largely equivalent of a pathfinder rogue. If their tinkering is more powerful than a rogues gifts they're overpowered. If less then they might be underpowered.
You might avoid the question and use the Pathfinder Artificer, either from Paizo or Adamant Games.
or alchemist
Damn
The Tinker is my favourite class in d20. I don't really like the Artificer because they can only copy spells. They can't make a steam saw or a grenade launcher for example. And even if you amke a raygun that shoots acid (or something to that effect) at 1st level you can use for a grand total of 1/day unless you have a high Int bonus.
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If you want to use VoodooMike's Race Building Guide (I always do) we can look at the Goblin's stats from the 2nd Edition Core Rulebook for the World of Warcraft RPG. The Goblins stats are as such:
+2 Dex, -2 Str
Small
Slow
Low-Light Vision
Weapon Familiarity (Firearms)
Bonus Technology Feat
+2 Appraise, Craft (alchemy), Diplomacy, Listen
+3 Craft (technological device)
+2 Craft (adamantine)
Auto Lang: Common, Goblin
Bonus Lang: Any unrestricted
Now going through and trying to Pathfinderize them, I came up with this:
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str (0)
Small (0)
Slow (-4)
Low-Light Vision (1)
Weapon Familiarity (Firearms) (treats all firearms as martial weapons, rather than exotic) (0)
Bonus Technology Feat (5)
+2 Appraise, Bluff, Craft (alchemy), Perception (4)
Skill Focus (Craft(choose one)) (4)
Auto Lang: Common, Goblin (0)
Bonus Lang: Any unrestricted (0)
I dropped the bonus to crafting with Adamantine, as that was a very setting specific thing, dropped their racial +3 to Craft (technological device) in favor of a free Skill Focus (Craft) feat to give a bit more variation in the race, changed the Diplomacy bonus to a Bluff bonus (I think its much more appropriate). That rounds the Goblin to 10 points, which is where all the other core races are.
Lemme know what ya think.
Also, I'm working on a Tinker conversion. Will post here when finished.
Been thinking along these lines for a while, personally other then giving Goblins a +2 Int. I wouldn't change much from the WoW rpg, assuming of couse you have that book/race.
The Tinker class works very well as is. However I did add a few minior adjustments. I have to look it up but their is a fan supplemnt called "Even More Magic and Mayhem" on PDF (google it'll pop up) that improves the Tinker class by letting the Tinker do what it does best only slightly faster.
Of course all this is assuming a WoW conversion, not a lets make a Goblin Tinker only using a Pathfinder context/rules set.
On a deeper level I would like to here some thoughts as to using the tech rules from WoW. I don't see any major problems adding the tech skill, but then I lean more towards 3.5 skill list then pathfinder. Moreorver it seems if you have the WOW rpg it be easer to use their tech rules rather then trying to come up with house rules fitting into the PF contect.
PS a multiclassed Goblin Tinker/Alchemist now theres a concept.
TTFN DRE
Thanks guys. I'm really new to this whole forum thing.