Tengu Barbarian / Rogue Question

[naaberle]

I searched the forums but couldn't find anything, please link if I overlooked something. If not I have a quick question.

My question is whether or not a character can use both the barbarian rage and the Swordmaster Trance at the same time? The Trance is not a Cha, Dex or Int based ability, however one could argue that it requires patience or concentration. However what is to stop a character from entering a trance (patient part done) and then firing up rage at the beginning of the next round?

Please let me know any thoughts on this. And this would be for PFS, so no house rules.

Thanks.

[blackbloodtroll]

Unless something in the Rage description says you cannot do it, then you can do it.

[Driver 325 yards]

Yeah, what blackbloodtroll said.

By the way, I am interested in how you think it can be argued that it requires patience or concentration. I don't see the word patience or concentration anywhere in the text for sword master trance.

Further, if you really think that it can be argued that it requires concentration or patience, haven't you answered your own question.

[blahpers]

It depends on how you interpret "trance". Many trances require no concentration at all; some require only a healthy dose of mind-altering chemicals.

I see no reason to believe that the swordmaster's trance requires patience or concentration. While it is described as "meditative", meditation does not necessarily involve either patience or concentration; in fact, it can often involve the exact opposite. So ask your GM how tengu work in that world.

[Driver 325 yards]

He is talking about for PFS. I would think (and I could be wrong) that a PFS GM absent any direct language that states that the trance takes patience or concentration would not make a rule call (essentially a house rule) that mediation = concentration and/or patience.

[blahpers]

I wouldn't know. My secondhand experience is that PFS errs on the side of "NO" nine times out of ten. So, I'd suggest asking your GM, then possibly your local Venture Whoever-Adjudicates-This-Stuff, unless you can eke out an official clarification.

Barring that, you might try the Ask James Jacobs thread, though it's more of a "this is how one of the designers would run it at home" rather than a "this is Word of God".

[naaberle]

I'm going to talk to my Venture captain the next time I see him, right now I'm trying to figure out if using the scarred rager's tolerance ability will allow me to rage cycle with trance on during the rage. I have to make sure the both trance and rage are on the same number of rounds so the fatigue doesn't get all funky. The issue comes in that trance takes a full round action to start, so would the rounds per day start accruing the following round that I activate it?

[Jeff Clem]

Now if you play an Urban Barbarian, Swordmaster rogue and you don't have to worry about the trance.

Controlled Rage (Ex)

When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.

Trance (Ex)

At 3rd level, a swordmaster learns to focus her martial prowess using an intense meditative trance. Under the influence of a trance, the swordmaster can perform fantastic martial feats. Entering a trance is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The swordmaster can maintain the trance for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Wisdom modifier. At each level beyond 3rd, she can remain in the trance for 1 additional round. She can end her trance as a free action. Following a trance, the swordmaster is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to 2 × the number of rounds she spent in the trance. A swordmaster cannot enter a new trance while fatigued but can otherwise enter a trance multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a swordmaster falls unconscious, her trance immediately ends.

I would think you can play both.