Ok here it goes. I have been DMing the Shackled City hardcover and they are nearing the end of the flood festival. In the fight with the hecuva (I think that's what it's called, I don't have the book with me) the party was nearly TPK'd. Most of the party died and due to the way they dungeon has worked out, they have enemies between them and the exit that will probably finish them. The issue I have is with the way the TPK came about.
Two players cancelled due to work. Our group is large and we have 8 people total including me. We decided to start playing with 4 thinking 2 were running late, but they never showed (1 called because work held him. The other we have no clue currently). So we played with 3 players, we didn't have all the missing characters and the nights game ended in disaster. We ran it with 6 of 8 PC's.
Should I let the situation stand? I feel like the players who showed were punished by playing. Two of them had their characters die. I have an out but it seems cheesy. One of the characters has the dream haunted trait which I have been using to drive story plots (an idea taken from RPGenius). One thing is that when he sleeps I gave him a really obscure premonition from time to time and also the adimarchus dreams. I was thinking of making this nights events all a dream/premonition.
Is that too cheesy? Anyone have other ideas?
Please help! Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I'd avoid the "it was a dream" trope if at all possible, especially since it means that the entire session never really happened, which means that the players wasted their time playing.
If, for some reason, I'm remembering details incorrectly, I apologize in advance!
It's been years since I ran the Shackled City and I had to go back and look at my wiki/notes (my SC hardcover is packed away at home). The huecuva is the undead gnoll at the end of Chapter 3, right? If so, as I recall, he was a sentient spellcaster. If that's the case, have the whole party "die" or "fall unconscious" and then wake up, imprisoned by the huecuva. They could even be bound in the room where the last two wands of control water are stored. Have the PCs who died be at 1 hp, or even at 0, but stable. Then the next session has everyone try to escape, kill the huecuva, get the wands, and rescue the city from the floods.
If a second battle with the huecuva is going poorly, hint to the players that huecuvas are susceptible to silvered weapons (hopefully they have one).
That way the players who did show up still had a meaningful session that progressed the plot, but no one is punished for having a less-than-complete party.
I know I would be cheesed to know I couldn't make the game for a legitimate reason and as a result someone else played my character and killed me.
It's perfectly fine to do a "do over," IMO, just because your 3 PCs played two other people's PCs and got them killed. Just not fair to the guys who missed.
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Do you think this needs moving to the dedicated SCAP thread?
If you're wanting solutions that fit with the scenario, then you're less likely to give out spoilers there, and more likely to get a reply from GMs and players who are familiar with the material.
If you're after general advice on 'what to do about imminent death of PCs, while their players are absent?', then I think you need a less spoilerific original post.
Not that I care, since we're done with the AP, but some people aren't.
Just to share some learnings from my own past.
1) We won't play unless 3/4 of the players are present.
2) The DM keeps all of the character sheets, so if someone isn't at a session at least we have their current stats and gear.
Not that it helps you with your current situation, but it could help prevent future situations like your present one.
I'm not at all familiar with Shackled City, but perhaps the players with the dead characters could make up throw-away characters that could come help rescue the PCs? It sounds like they are indeed in a bad spot and in dire need of rescue. You could run the battles from different directions. The rescuers coming from the dungeon entrance and the rescuees either holding on for dear life or working feverishly to get to the source of the fighting they hear in the distance.
Wandering around a dungeon with a few hps and no resources is rather foolish, so having fresh characters (who may or may not be searching for the missing PCs) give them a hand to get out could be one way to work it without dismissing the entire previous session as a dream. Once out, the dead PCs could possibly get raised. Just a thought. Good luck!
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Did they tell anyone where they were going, after The Lucky Monkey?
If so, they should (hopefully, by now) be friends with both the Church of Pelor and the Striders. Either or both of these groups could send a rescue party, along with the missing two PCs.
This could be justified, if the two missing PCs knew where the others were going.
It isn't deus ex machina, if it's foreshadowed and justified that they have these allies, in the game so far.
If you aren't bothered by the players having spoilers, you could give out the stats for low-level NPCs such as Fario, Felian, or Brother (Rufus?), to be used by some of the players, so they aren't sat inactive.
As far as I remember, there's only one practical entrance, so presumably all the guards at the cable car have been dealt with.
The leaders may send some of their surviving troops back up to protect it, so there's less of them around the prisoners, and the rescue party still have to make a fight of it.
They are more likely to keep a watch on movement of the cage, so surprise assault is less likely than before, unless the rescuers can use Spider Climb, Levitate, etc, or travel along the wire somehow.
(They're level 4 now, right? Or less, if they're splitting xp more ways?)
Do you think this needs moving to the dedicated SCAP thread?
If you're after general advice on 'what to do about imminent death of PCs, while their players are absent?', then I think you need a less spoilerific original post.
Not that I care, since we're done with the AP, but some people aren't.
Sorry, I hadn't even thought of spoiler tags. If someone wants to move the post I would be ok with that.
Just to share some learnings from my own past.
1) We won't play unless 3/4 of the players are present.
2) The DM keeps all of the character sheets, so if someone isn't at a session at least we have their current stats and gear.
Typically we cancel if too many players cancel. We ran it assuming the other two were running late. Both the players we were waiting on are pretty consistent and call if they can't show. (Both had good reasons, one was at the hospital)
Either way good advice none the less, I've been forgetting to ask the last few people who have not given me their sheets to do so.
I may just do the capture plot and go with. But might just redo the final fight with hecuva with the full party. That way everything else the party did to that point is not worthless.
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I may just do the capture plot and go with. But might just redo the final fight with heceuva with the full party. That way everything else the party did to that point is not worthless.
Just make sure you don't set a bad precedent, where the players come to assume they can always visit a place once to explore, then throw the resulting fight, because they know they'll get a do-over.
If so, they should (hopefully, by now) be friends with both the Church of Pelor and the Striders. Either or both of these groups could send a rescue party, along with the missing two PCs.
This could be justified, if the two missing PCs knew where the others were going.
The striders do know where they are at however they were used in chapter 2 to bail the party out of a tough situation.
Just make sure you don't set a bad precedent, where the players come to assume they can always visit a place once to explore, then throw the resulting fight, because they know they'll get a do-over.
Which is exactly why I have some qualms about using the Striders to rescue them again. It's also why I don't want to just erase everything that just happened. Typically in this scenario the situation would stand as is. Given the circumstances in the amount of players present and characters used however, I'm not sure if I should use a little DM fiat or not.
My party had some issues with that part also, though they didn't have a near TPK. However, they were really weak and needed to rest. The dungeon is set up to be more like 3 smaller locations, each with it's own 'boss' and the fragmentation of the cult means that the bosses or their minions won't go check on the others. I allowed the party to rest and recover as best they could before continuing onward to combat Triel and the halfling whose name I forgot.
A capture scenario is the way I would go. I feel that a dues ex machina save by having the Striders show up is similar to the do-over. It allows the PCs to do whatever they want and think that they have a safe backup.
When I ran SCAP I had the Striders around as allies but they were always off doing some other quest or mission so they were not usually available for backup unless it was specifically part of the story.
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Or you could give them sheets with the Stormblades to play (make sure the names are blank) and have them run them as rescuers. Then once you (the GM) are running the Stormblades as npcs have them rub the rescue in the players' faces. After all, you can never have enough reasons to hate the Stormblades :)
Or you could give them sheets with the Stormblades to play (make sure the names are blank) and have them run them as rescuers. Then once you (the GM) are running the Stormblades as npcs have them rub the rescue in the players' faces. After all, you can never have enough reasons to hate the Stormblades :)
I second this idea. I would definitely go with the Stormblades, so they can come out as the rescuers of the city (and the PCs!!). I might indeed even be a good idea to have your players play the Stormblades (although I don't see the need for blank names), but there are only 4 of them, which could make it hard with 7 players ...
Ok here it goes. I have been DMing the Shackled City hardcover and they are nearing the end of the flood festival. In the fight with the hecuva (I think that's what it's called, I don't have the book with me) the party was nearly TPK'd. Most of the party died and due to the way they dungeon has worked out, they have enemies between them and the exit that will probably finish them. The issue I have is with the way the TPK came about.
Two players cancelled due to work. Our group is large and we have 8 people total including me. We decided to start playing with 4 thinking 2 were running late, but they never showed (1 called because work held him. The other we have no clue currently). So we played with 3 players, we didn't have all the missing characters and the nights game ended in disaster. We ran it with 6 of 8 PC's.
Should I let the situation stand? I feel like the players who showed were punished by playing. Two of them had their characters die. I have an out but it seems cheesy. One of the characters has the dream haunted trait which I have been using to drive story plots (an idea taken from RPGenius). One thing is that when he sleeps I gave him a really obscure premonition from time to time and also the adimarchus dreams. I was thinking of making this nights events all a dream/premonition.
Is that too cheesy? Anyone have other ideas?
Please help! Thanks in advance.
Did you use the monster as designed or did you bump it up for am 8 man party? If it was ran as in the book I would not give them an out, but if it was ran for a larger group I would be nice.
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It's cool and all that you're asking us, but, considering that there's no perfect answer and whatever you come up with could prove awkward to some Players, email the group and ask them what they'd be most comfortable with.
I seriously doubt they'll want to say it was all a dream -- that really does suck. But still, no harm in asking.
Maybe the best thing is to have The Church of St. Cuthburt or something provide some Raise Dead scrolls as a one-time thing (cause that's all they got).
Maybe they'll come up with something they like better. Maybe one of them didn't really like his PC and wouldn't mind starting another one.
Ask.
Did you use the monster as designed or did you bump it up for am 8 man party? If it was ran as in the book I would not give them an out, but if it was ran for a larger group I would be nice.
I bumped him up 1 cleric level. Converted him to pathfinder so he had channel negative energy which helped his power level. One player doesn't mind rolling a new character but I also have a player who is highly upset.
Maybe the best thing is to have The Church of St. Cuthburt or something provide some Raise Dead scrolls as a one-time thing (cause that's all they got).
That's not a bad idea. I might use the RPGenius plot to have one of the cagewrights take over the church and provide a raise dead as a favor for finding the wands to throw off suspicion and time it before the demonscarr ball. Of course my players would have to survive to do that.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
I bumped him up 1 cleric level. Converted him to pathfinder so he had channel negative energy which helped his power level. One player doesn't mind rolling a new character but I also have a player who is highly upset.
Did you use the monster as designed or did you bump it up for am 8 man party? If it was ran as in the book I would not give them an out, but if it was ran for a larger group I would be nice.
WE's advice is solid but if it falls back to you I would gauge the CR of the enemy vs how hard it should have been considering who would have been there.
PS: Were you really going to fun one monster against 8 players?
PS: Were you really going to fun one monster against 8 players?
I originally had planned on using two wights, minionized them (2 hits to kill) and called them CR2.
I had changed the zombie encounter in the previous room to wights which I ran.I pulled them given the situation.
I think the dream option is perfectly reasonable. I have myself used it in my own campaign - once and only once.
I also think it would be perfectly reasonable to award a percentage of the experience the would've been gained if the adventure had been "real." This would help to alleviate the feeling of wasted time. I personally don't regard it as wasted time so much as lesson learned.