Specifically a 12th level character and a young adult white dragon.
My point buy is 32
I know a 12th level CHARACTER can, I just am curious if I can blaster this with everyone's favorite narrow spell caster (I use the term "favorite" sarcastically). As far as I can tell on here there's no love for the warmage, but maybe there's a hope in hell that I'm not completely crazy in thinking that the fire damage spells are a good bet against a white dragon at 12th level (or 10th level with 2 levels in another class with a larger hit die or utility/specialization).
Current feat selection for a 2 fighter/10 warmage:
Combat Casting
Combat Expertise
Spell Focus (Evocation)
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Improved Feint
Sudden Empower
Sudden Enlarge
Sudden Extend
Sudden Maximize
with 88,000 gp in equipment (and I've gone over a decent shopping list I'm refining) any necessities to recommend?
I'm also looking for any advice on fighting dragons as I've yet to do so myself, if warmage is completely wrong I might be able to switch gears (I actually committed to doing a fire/blaster mage- not just a warmage).
Thoughts?
Specifically a 12th level character and a young adult white dragon.
My point buy is 32
I know a 12th level CHARACTER can, I just am curious if I can blaster this with everyone's favorite narrow spell caster (I use the term "favorite" sarcastically). As far as I can tell on here there's no love for the warmage, but maybe there's a hope in hell that I'm not completely crazy in thinking that the fire damage spells are a good bet against a white dragon at 12th level (or 10th level with 2 levels in another class with a larger hit die or utility/specialization).
Current feat selection for a 2 fighter/10 warmage:
Combat Casting
Combat Expertise
Spell Focus (Evocation)
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Improved Feint
Sudden Empower
Sudden Enlarge
Sudden Extend
Sudden Maximizewith 88,000 gp in equipment (and I've gone over a decent shopping list I'm refining) any necessities to recommend?
I'm also looking for any advice on fighting dragons as I've yet to do so myself, if warmage is completely wrong I might be able to switch gears (I actually committed to doing a fire/blaster mage- not just a warmage).
Thoughts?
Dragons are normally made by the DM so it depends on the DM. I hope you win on the first round though, because if you don't expect to be grappled, pinned, and pwned(is that still cool to say?).
My PCs (in the games I've run) typically OWN level appropriate dragons I throw at them, and even dragons up to CR+3-5 due to their DR being so pathetically useless. Seriously, is there even a point to dragons having DR/Magic against PCs?
For your character, Scorching Rays are your friend... especially against that White Dragon. The trick is having a magic item that lets you fly like Winged Boots for better maneuverability. Even with everything at your disposal (including some Protection From Energy Spells I hope), it may be tough one-on one. In a 4+ PC group, the dragon stands zero chance unless the DM plays him -very- tactically.
YMMV but this has been my experience with casters vs dragons.
My PCs (in the games I've run) typically OWN level appropriate dragons I throw at them, and even dragons up to CR+3-5 due to their DR being so pathetically useless. Seriously, is there even a point to dragons having DR/Magic against PCs?
For your character, Scorching Rays are your friend... especially against that White Dragon. The trick is having a magic item that lets you fly like Winged Boots for better maneuverability. Even with everything at your disposal (including some Protection From Energy Spells I hope), it may be tough one-on one. In a 4+ PC group, the dragon stands zero chance unless the DM plays him -very- tactically.
YMMV but this has been my experience with casters vs dragons.
I should say this is a ONE on ONE fight, with a mini-adventure beforehand.
The boots are a good suggestion (presuming they aren't more than 44,000)
I might go Sorc just to have protection from energy rather than rely on an armor with cold resistance or some such and not have the proper resistance later when we face another dragon. Or I'll get a ring or some such.
I might go Eclectic learning just for those energy spells. Fire Shield is the only spell I have that protects against cold and if I want it to- fire.
Thanks!
Dragons are normally made by the DM so it depends on the DM. I hope you win on the first round though, because if you don't expect to be grappled, pinned, and pwned(is that still cool to say?).
I'm not sure if it is still "cool" but I'm sure it'd be accurate if I flub some rolls or don't get myself invisible/mobile and resistant fast.
Dragons are normally made by the DM so it depends on the DM. I hope you win on the first round though, because if you don't expect to be grappled, pinned, and pwned(is that still cool to say?).I'm not sure if it is still "cool" but I'm sure it'd be accurate if I flub some rolls or don't get myself invisible/mobile and resistant fast.
A young adult is only a CR 9. I assumed it was better than that since you came to the boards. I think you will be ok.
A young adult is only a CR 9. I assumed it was better than that since you came to the boards. I think you will be ok.Dragons are normally made by the DM so it depends on the DM. I hope you win on the first round though, because if you don't expect to be grappled, pinned, and pwned(is that still cool to say?).I'm not sure if it is still "cool" but I'm sure it'd be accurate if I flub some rolls or don't get myself invisible/mobile and resistant fast.
(Shrugs)
Man everybody's down on the Warmage and I figured my chances are as hard as anyone's SOLO; if not worse. Pardon if it seemed unworthy of the boards, just stuck on the matter. 12th level takes some building time and I didn't want to go with something that wasn't going to work or at least give me a good chance at taking it down. Thanks in any case.
A young adult is only a CR 9. I assumed it was better than that since you came to the boards. I think you will be ok.Dragons are normally made by the DM so it depends on the DM. I hope you win on the first round though, because if you don't expect to be grappled, pinned, and pwned(is that still cool to say?).I'm not sure if it is still "cool" but I'm sure it'd be accurate if I flub some rolls or don't get myself invisible/mobile and resistant fast.(Shrugs)
Man everybody's down on the Warmage and I figured my chances are as hard as anyone's SOLO; if not worse. Pardon if it seemed unworthy of the boards, just stuck on the matter. 12th level takes some building time and I didn't want to go with something that wasn't going to work or at least give me a good chance at taking it down. Thanks in any case.
I did not mean for it to sound like that. What I mean is when you asked could you solo the dragon I assumed it's CR was equal or greater than your level.
People are not down on the warmage for sheer power. It has that. The issue is that a 3.5 sorcerer could blast almost just as well, and had utility to go with it. I am sure it can take a creature 3 CR's below it's level.I think of the warmage as the fighter of the arcane classes. It does one thing really well, but that is about it when used by most players.
I did not mean for it to sound like that. What I mean is when you asked could you solo the dragon I assumed it's CR was equal or greater than your level.
People are not down on the warmage for sheer power. It has that. The issue is that a 3.5 sorcerer could blast almost just as well, and had utility to go with it. I am sure it can take a creature 3 CR's below it's level.
I think of the warmage as the fighter of the arcane classes. It does one thing really well, but that is about it when used by most players.
Well, without UTILITY spells- the warmage is weak. maybe with eclectic learning (which in my opinion should just be a variant class feature, it is a bit costly, but I'll review and weigh the options there) I can take on spells like "Protection from Elements" that I might want to resist the breath weapon. of course I could also buff my armor with Cold Resistance 10...which would make it REALLY expensive if I added Invulnerability as I had planned. The white dragon- at this CR as you point out, does 5 d6 though and while it has 150~ hp, the main danger I have (guessing) is its claw claw bite, etc and insane grapple.
I'm relatively okay with it as the fighter of the arcane classes. The way I see it a good warmage SHOULD have martial training to boot. Tactics should be foremost and some physical resilience and general resourcefulness would be optimum. Since this is point buy and I don't have the INSANE rolls I used for my 1st multiclass warmage (fighter 2 as well, 5/6 warmage I believe) Fighting hand to hand won't be much of an option. This will be more of a stand around blowing things up fight than a toe to toe. Though I suppose if I have any sense I'll make mobility one of my buying points in equipment and tactics. The good thing about the warmage spell list is that the fire spells give a little advantage against the fire vulnerable White Dragon. That and orbs/ranged touch spells target the creature's low touch AC and generally don't bother with the SR. While I'm not looking to napalm the sucker and walk away, I'd be content with something close to that happening. The real question is, do I multiclass/prestige? and for what? Fighter 2 is a decent dip, but does nothing other than add hp. Rogue 2 does Evasion but doesn't add hp...a bunch of crazy prestige builds get me confused and generally feeling lazy or a bit too munckin. I suppose I could be crazy and take Barbarian for the hp.
I did not mean for it to sound like that. What I mean is when you asked could you solo the dragon I assumed it's CR was equal or greater than your level.
People are not down on the warmage for sheer power. It has that. The issue is that a 3.5 sorcerer could blast almost just as well, and had utility to go with it. I am sure it can take a creature 3 CR's below it's level.
I think of the warmage as the fighter of the arcane classes. It does one thing really well, but that is about it when used by most players.Well, without UTILITY spells- the warmage is weak. maybe with eclectic learning (which in my opinion should just be a variant class feature, it is a bit costly, but I'll review and weigh the options there) I can take on spells like "Protection from Elements" that I might want to resist the breath weapon. of course I could also buff my armor with Cold Resistance 10...which would make it REALLY expensive if I added Invulnerability as I had planned. The white dragon- at this CR as you point out, does 5 d6 though and while it has 150~ hp, the main danger I have (guessing) is its claw claw bite, etc and insane grapple.
I'm relatively okay with it as the fighter of the arcane classes. The way I see it a good warmage SHOULD have martial training to boot. Tactics should be foremost and some physical resilience and general resourcefulness would be optimum. Since this is point buy and I don't have the INSANE rolls I used for my 1st multiclass warmage (fighter 2 as well, 5/6 warmage I believe) Fighting hand to hand won't be much of an option. This will be more of a stand around blowing things up fight than a toe to toe. Though I suppose if I have any sense I'll make mobility one of my buying points in equipment and tactics. The good thing about the warmage spell list is that the fire spells give a little advantage against the fire vulnerable White Dragon. That and orbs/ranged touch spells target the creature's low touch AC and generally don't bother with the SR. While I'm not...
Win initiative, and blast him away. Doing 150 points of damage is not hard for a 12th level blaster. Actually since you are attacking his weakness you should actually be able to do less than 150 points of damage,and take him out since the damage will be multiplied. I don't know what books you have available, but the orb spells don't care about saves, and a dragon's touch AC is not hard to hit.
Using your charisma to power UMD is not a bad idea either. Greater Invis is your friend or dust of disappearance if you have the money for it. The latter if you are worried about a bad UMD roll.I think you get the sudden metamagic feats, and they don't affect the spell level IIRC. Scorching Ray (sudden empowered and split) hurts. Since he is weak against fire the empowered is spell is really efficient now.
4d6 averages to 14 X 1.5(empowered)=21 x 1.5(vulnerable)=31
31 x 4 rays(split ray)=124
Even if you only get three rays you get 93. If you can quicken a spell you can get scorching ray off again. The dragon is dead in round one.
edit: I had too many rays. The dragon should not get past round 2.
...dust of disappearance...
Was already on my list. my plan was basically, dust (for however many rounds that lasts, its a minimum of 2), fire wall in a circle either around me or around it and pointing in, fire shield if the invis runs out- maybe just because beforehand, start a flaming sphere and start blasting with rays and orbs and maybe a fireball first. If it honestly lasts more than 4 rounds (maybe 6 if I miscalculate) including initial surprise/contact I'll be surprised too.
I was going to sudden extend my fire shield, sudden maximize a fireball, and sudden empower- well now scorching ray. All in all, I think I have a chance now. I might go 12 or 11 warmage and take fighter just for martial and hit die, that or the 2/10 break like I wanted...Still I could always take Rogue for two- forget the hit die and have evasion plus sneak attack within 30 ft...final thoughts on what it takes to be the boss (of a young adult white dragon)?
Well, the fight is now 2-3 Frost Giants (betting on 3) and 2 winter wolves as well. That's 4 CR 9 creatures and 2 CR 5. I've got my work cut out for me and might buy a minor necklace of fireballs to help even the playing field.