I have a similar summoner I plan on playing and so was asking similar questions. I was told that mounts cannot make attacks during a ride-by attack. So if you use ride-by the gnome will be the only one attacking, unless your eidolon attacks a different creature at the end of the charge. This does not put your summoner out of harms way, however.
As far as mounted combat goes I think that it is acceptable to use with the eidolon, especially considering you have to spend an evolution to use the eidolon as a mount.
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There is a little bit of a minor issue with this in that your Eidolon has a different initiative than you and CANNOT make actions simultaneously with your turn. They can delay UNTIL your turn or after but they will either go before or after yours. That is at least by RAW. This actually causes some really weird interactions like making ride checks while it is not your turn and say you go before your eidolon and make a full attack while mounted, the eidolon gets a turn and then moves you from a position where a full attack is possible then that invalidates your turn. Or if it dies...
Yar!
There is a little bit of a minor issue with this in that your Eidolon has a different initiative than you and CANNOT make actions simultaneously with your turn. They can delay UNTIL your turn or after but they will either go before or after yours. That is at least by RAW. This actually causes some really weird interactions like making ride checks while it is not your turn and say you go before your eidolon and make a full attack while mounted, the eidolon gets a turn and then moves you from a position where a full attack is possible then that invalidates your turn. ...
Except that when it is ridden as a mount, the mounted combat rules take over, which explicitly state "Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it."
As for the setup proposed by the OP, I don't remember what the final consensus was... this setup with regular mounts / paladins / animal companions / cavaliers / etc has been discussed in numerous threads here before, but I don't have the time to go digging for them at the moment. Sorry. But if you do have time to search the forums, you will eventually find several threads discussing this very tactic.
~P
I have a similar summoner I plan on playing and so was asking similar questions. I was told that mounts cannot make attacks during a ride-by attack. So if you use ride-by the gnome will be the only one attacking, unless your eidolon attacks a different creature at the end of the charge. This does not put your summoner out of harms way, however.[--]
Wouldn't the mount having spring attack also work? It couldn't use it's pounce in that case - so basically you have to choose between Ride-by attack and your Eidolon's full attack.
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Yar.
Yes it's ok to use the Eidolon as a mount and it can act as just the MOUNT on my turn, but then it still gets it's own turn to use it's turn. This doesn't seem very proper in the gameplay mechanics because the mount is essentially getting two movements each round.
Nooo… nothing that can be used as a mount (Eidolon, Animal Companion, Monstrous Cohort, whatever) gets more than its normal allotment of actions in a given round. Creatures controlled by the player act either at the same time as the PC or on their own initiative, which is a call for the DM, unless the creature is being used as a mount and/or is a summoned creature. Summoned creatures and Mounted creatures always act at the same time as the PC controlling it. They no longer have their own initiative, they act on the PC’s initiative.
Below are links to the relevant rules.
As for your original question, your DM might allow it if the Eidolon also has the spring attack feat chain, but that would only allow a single attack and not a pounce (unless your DM is really nice). HOWEVER, as THIS THREAD mentions, it would be possible to ride-by-attack one creature, and continue on to another creature that becomes subject to your mounts pounce (provided you also make a DC 10 ride check so that it can attack at the same time as you’re riding it).
However, pouncing the same creature the rider charges then moving on via Ride-By attack does NOT appear to be a legal combo. You can pounce and charge the same target but not ride-by, or you can charge/ride-by one target, then your mount can pounce another target at the end of its movement, PROVIDED that the entire movement follows all of the rules regarding charges. (Straight line from start to finish, etc)
Here are the links:
Mounted Combat
...important quote is “Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.”
Pounce
...and the Eidolon evolution 'Pounce' is worded like this: “An eidolon gains quick reflexes, allowing it to make a full attack after a charge. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form.” (bold is mine)
Eidolons
...Important quote is “Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures”
Summon Monster
...Important quote is “It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.”
…I think that covers everything…
~P
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Pirate provided an excellent summary of the appropriate rules. One thing he didn't cover was the issue of reach. The Lance has 10' reach and, unless you pay for reach with all of the eidolon's attacks, it does not.
If you're going to do this character you might want to also look at the Trick Riding and Mounted Skirmisher feats. They're quite good and luckily require ranks in Ride and not attack bonus. The Eidolon might benefit from Charge Through. Those feats are from the APG, a right dandy book.
Yar.
Eidolons are treated as a summoned monster, sure. But that means "look up the rules on summoned monsters" not "go pretend this dude got here with the rules under a specific summoning spell (in this case you picked summon monster). The rules for "appears on your turn and acts immediately" are from that spell. By tha logic, Augment Summoning would apply!
I can find nothing in the rules that says that Eidolons lack their own initiative.
Summoning rules linked to here are only just more than a single paragraph in length, and say nothing about initiative in any way. In fact, these ‘rules’ barely tell us anything at all.
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
So if I want to know more, I need to look up the summoning spells (those that actually have the summoning sub-school listed).
Creeping Doom creates swarms that only move with your direction, so, as you direct it, aka on your turn.
Mount gives you a mount that you can ride. It has no other info, but when it’s used as a mount, the rules for mounted combat take over, and according to those rules the mount acts on your initiative. The spell says nothing about “having” to use it as a mount, so in this case, IF you do NOT ride it, it could attack on it’s own initiative, but IF you RIDE it, it acts on your own initiative (and jumping on and off it does not give it more than one initiative in a turn).
Secret Chest does not summon a creature, so in inapplicable. Same with Storm of Vengeance.
Summon Monster I thru IX all say:
It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.
Summon Nature’s Ally I thru IX says the same thing:
The summoned ally appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.
Summon Swarm doesn’t say anything except that the summoner has NO control over the swarms summoned. They could act on their own initiative, or at the same initiative as the summoner, because they were summoned on the summoner’s initiative. But that would have to be the DM’s call.
Insect Plague creates a swarm that does not move, and swarms only attack by moving onto creatures or by having creatures move into them, so this argument does not apply here either.
Instant Summons deals with items, and does not apply.
Vomit Swarm moves as you direct it, so on your initiative.
Summon Eidolon (the spell) says nothing on the matter, so this would be a call for the DM. Note that if it does act on it’s own initiative and this spell is cast mid battle, it will have to roll when it arrives, then wait until it gets to that point in initiative order before it can act, which could really suck for it.
I’m only dealing with PF-Core, so that’s it.
I do admit that instead of saying:
Summoned creatures and Mounted creatures always act at the same time as the PC controlling it.
I should have wrote” Mounted creatures always act on the same initiative as it’s rider, and summoned creatures almost always act on the same initiative as the person who summoned them, depending on the specifics of the spell.”
If the creature is summoned by the Mount spell, Summon Swarm spell, or the Summon Eidolon spell could indeed act on its own initiative, as by this rule everything that can act has it’s own initiative, but there are exceptions. As I mentioned (and linked to the appropriate rules above), anything being used as a Mount does not act on its own initiative, but on its riders. That was the main purpose of this thread (Eidolons being used as a Mount), so I focused on that.
So yeah, in the grand scheme of things everything that can take actions does have its own initiative. However, there are three situations where something will act on someone else’s initiative. One, RAW: when the creature is being used as a mount. Two, RAW: when the creature is summoned by a summoning spell which says that it acts on the casters turn or is directed directly by the caster. Three: NOT RAW: when the DM decides that a Cohort, Follower, Animal Companion or Eidolon can act at the same time as the PC that controls it.
Anything not summoned by those spells and not being used as a mount does indeed act on its own initiative, even if it’s being controlled by a player, unless the DM says otherwise.
I’m just saying that in the case of Eidolons, because it is “treated as a summoned creature” with some listed exceptions, it makes sense that it would act at the same time as the summoner because most of the summon spells say that they do, and those spells combined with the paragraph and a bit in the summoning rules are the only references we have RAW for how a ‘summoned’ creature acts.
The feat Augment Summoning specifically states that
creature you conjure with any summon spell
The bold is mine, and would therefore only apply to summons brought by a spell, not a ritual (the summoner’s ability to summon an Eidolon is not a spell-like ability, but simply an ability, like a monks bonus feats…this MIGHT be a typo however, as one would think that the ability to summon an Eidolon would at least be SU, but nothing is marked beside that ability). The summoner’s spell-like ability to summon creatures via its class ability to use Summon Monster would gain the benefits of Augment Summoning, but his eidolon would not unless summoned by the Summon Eidolon spell (not the class ability-ritual).
Also, it is perfectly legal for a summoner or his Eidolon to hold an action for something while the other does something else, so long as the Eidolon is not being used as a Mount. Then they would definitely act on different initiatives. Again: RAW, everything has its own initiative unless otherwise noted.
Unfortunately, I can only quote RAW and give my opinions and personal rulings. I’m not able to make Official Society Rulings.
~P