Full list? Not sure all the ones that do are 1 step let me see
Common
Iomeda
Erastil
Torag
Serenrae
less common
Adadar
Irori
Shelyn
The setting book or gods and magic does not talk about him having paladins but based on all the paladin gods being one step you could add Kurgess as well
Even less common:
Dragons / Scalykind:
Apsu,
Dwarven:
Angradd, Folgrit, Bolka, Grundinnar, Dranngvit, Kols, Magrim, Trudd
Note, Dwarves are pantheistic, so a Dwarven Paladin could conceivably worship the entire pantheon (excluding Droskar) and not just Torag.
Elven:
Alseta (more of a protector deity, really), Yuelral
Halfling:
Chaldira Zuzaristan
Human:
Kurgess
This is the exact quote from the Campaign Setting book:
Paladins worship many different deities. The most common is Iomedae, the ascended goddess of valor and justice. Erastil commands the obedience of a great many holy warriors, particularly those who uphold justice for the common folk. Paladins of Torag are highly sought as military commanders. Adventuring paladins often spread the word of Sarenrae, the goddess of the sun, honesty, healing, and redemption—for paladins often seek adventure as a form of penance. Some paladins serve Abadar, Irori, or Shelyn, but paladins who serve no specific god are actually more common.
Like Seeker, I have not seen any official mention of any of the other deities of Golarion having paladins, but the 2nd and 5th part of each Adventure Path has an article about a diety, so there may be more mentioned in those. We do know that the Council of Thieves AP has an article on Asmodeus, who is LE, that talks about him having paladins, but official Paizo people have posted in the forums that this info slipped through and does not fit Golarion and should not have been published. But any diety of Golarion not mentioned yet that has an alignment of LG, LN or NG should be able to have paladins if you want them to in your games.
Oh, and anything published by Paizo for Golarion is considered canon, whether is in a big hardcover or in one of the small Companion books. Also, I think the whole paladin of Asmodeus thing is the only thing published that they have said is no longer canon.
Only thing for paladins ya, some nature worshiping clerics slipped though and it was stated they should have been druids or adapts as clerics must have gods.
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Full list? Not sure all the ones that do are 1 step let me see
Common
Iomeda
Erastil
Torag
Serenraeless common
Adadar
Irori
ShelynThe setting book or gods and magic does not talk about him having paladins but based on all the paladin gods being one step you could add Kurgess as well
This is what I have
Common
Iomedae
Sarenrae
less common
Abadar
Erastil
Shelyn
Torag
What source mentions Irori having Paladins?
The setting book, they are not in gods and magic but are listed in the setting book, I think that makes em rare as they are the only one listed in the setting book lest out of gods and magic
Oh and Feeb where did ya get the list of gods from?
What source mentions Irori having Paladins?
*points up at previous post with quote from Campaign Setting book*
The setting book, they are not in gods and magic but are listed in the setting book, I think that makes em rare as they are the only one listed in the setting book lest out of gods and magic
Oh and Fed where did ya get the list of gods from?
Each of the Race Companion books lists the additional racial deities and their alignments, though I have not read them enough to see if the books say which ones definitely have paladins.
I know most of the gods, I meant the confirm they had paladins. Or is it just going off the one step rule?
Asmodeus?ha, ha...
Hey, it is in an official PathfinderRPG product.
Hey, it is in an official PathfinderRPG product.Asmodeus?ha, ha...
And has been officially ruled a mistake , sorry production error.
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Hey, it is in an official PathfinderRPG product.Asmodeus?ha, ha...
Lets not go there... It has already been stated that was a mistake that made it past 'editing' and should never been there. It has been basically 'taken back'.
That said, I am still curious on where f33b got his list.. racial books maybe?
The gods are from gods and magic, I think he just went down and listed all gods within one step. It seems that way anyhow
The only issues is while paizo does seem to use it, they never say it so ya get sillyness of folks claiming it's not a rule, even if it is one they seem to use.
So I agree its a great rule, ya always have a few they claim it it not really a rule
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Well, I think One Step is dependable for seeing who almost certainly is viable for having paladins, but I'd leave room for certain reasonable exceptions concerning gods that are more than one step away, like Sune from Forgotten Realms.
It should be done sparingly though, IMO. And absolutely no obvious lolwat candidates like Gorum.
Just my personal bias, but I'd keep the candidates for exceptions restricted to goodish gods, though Pharasma is mighty tempting.
Ya alot of folks did not get why Sune fit. The only way she worked was she understood a vow, she knew the value of a vow and oath and would hold a a paladin to it. If it was not for that she really would not have worked.
Just my personal bias, but I'd keep the candidates for exceptions restricted to goodish gods, though Pharasma is mighty tempting.
So is Asmodeus. ;P
The gods are from gods and magic, I think he just went down and listed all gods within one step. It seems that way anyhow
I did review the flavor text to make sure Paladins would be appropriate. This seems somewhat less so for the Elven deities, but very much so for Apsu, the dwarven pantheon and the halfling demigod.
Sources: Gods of Magic, 3.5 Campaign setting, Pathfinder Companion: Dwarves of Golarion.
So the whole of the god list is
Adadar=LN
Alseta=LN
Angradd=LG
Apsu=LG
Bolka=NG
Chaldira Zuzaristan=NG
Dranngvit=LN
Erastil=LG
Folgrit=LG
Grundinnar=LG
Iomeda=LG
Irori=LN
Kols=LN
Kurgess=NG
Magrim=LN
Serenrae=NG
Shelyn=NG
Torag=LG
Trudd=NG
So the whole of the gods list is
Adadar=LN
Alseta=LN
Angradd=LG
Apsu=LG
Bolka=NG
Chaldira Zuzaristan=NG
Dranngvit=LN
Erastil=LG
Folgrit=LG
Grundinnar=LG
Iomeda=LG
Irori=LN
Kols=LN
Kurgess=NG
Magrim=LN
Serenrae=NG
Shelyn=NG
Torag=LG
Trudd=NG
Agreed, it was a simple question
We know officially these gods have them
Adadar=LN
Erastil=LG
Iomeda=LG
Irori=LN
Serenrae=NG
Shelyn=NG
Torag=LG
With the one step rule we can guess this gods also can have paladins. Does not men they do however
Alseta=LN
Angradd=LG
Apsu=LG
Bolka=NG
Chaldira Zuzaristan=NG
Dranngvit=LN
Folgrit=LG
Grundinnar=LG
Kols=LN
Kurgess=NG
Magrim=LN
Trudd=NG
Rovagug has paladins. For lunch.
And Lamashtu has paladins, too. I recently visited her, she nearly has a full set! She traded me some of the female Iomedae paladins for a couple of inquisitors of Asmodeus.
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I don't want to start the argument again, but I do want to put in my own two cents on this. Ignoring Asmodeus and the evil pantheon as viable choices (I am willing to concede that it was a mistake Asmodeus got in, though I still think it is a workable concept in rare situations), the Paladin still does not have any restriction by RAW to pick a god within one step away. Personally, I think allowing any non-evil god is perfectly fine. Cayden Cailean seems like the kind of guy that would have heroic paladins, Gorum could have some more focused on battle, etc.
Keep in mind that, unlike a cleric, a paladin is not necessarily a member of the physical Church and does not have to worship every aspect of a god, they may have only grown up knowing one part of them. Many different cultures in Golarian see the gods in very different ways. So long as the Paladin can stay Lawful Good, I see no issue with who he chooses to worship.
It's entirely up to the GM how this works in the end. For my own games, I am more than happy to allow any god within one step right off the bat, and other non-evil gods if the background for them seems to fit (I likes me story). Some GMs might be more comfortable by just taking the Cleric's restriction and slapping it on the Paladin.
Do this how you will.
I removed a double post.
I have not had a chance to look at Orcs of Golarion yet, but are there any possibilities in there that a half-orc paladin could use, or are any deities listed there only evil?
Also, this list will grow once Halflings of Golarion comes out in December. I also wonder if Humans of Golarion will detail any non-big 20 when it comes out in April next year.
The Inner Sea Primer also comes out in November and a line from it's description says this:
Brief descriptions of the gods and religions of the Inner Sea expand the list of deities from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and offer tips to help players pick an appropriate patron deity.
So maybe this book will mention the "one step" rule and we will not have to wait for the revised Campaign Setting book in February to make this clear. Or maybe if we get really lucky, one of the Paizo folks will drop in here and say yes or no on whether this will be clarified in one of these two books how this works for Golarion.
It IS this vagueness about Golarion that has caused so much of the arguing and not the Core rules in general, right? After all, the Core rules are vague on this on purpose so that you can run things either way in your own home-made settings.
I didn't think Golarion had anything to do with it, really. I thought it was just because Clerics have the one step rule and some people thought Paladins should as well. :S
Most of the paladin arguments I have been paying attention to or posting in was the whole paladin of Asmodeus thing and whether a paladin even has to pick a deity or not. I guess it all just got blended together to make it seem it was all about how things work on Golarion, especially when people are specifically talking about the Golarion deities.
The APG threw this text into the section on paladin archetypes, which indicates that most paladins do NOT venerate one specific deity.
Sacred Servant
Paladins as a general rule, venerate the gods of good
and purity, but some take this a step further, dedicating
themselves to a specific deity and furthering the cause of the
faith. These sacred servants are rewarded for their devotion
with additional spells and powerful allies. A sacred servant
must select one deity to worship. This deity’s alignment
must be lawful good, lawful neutral, or neutral good.
Then you want the quote from the CS provided by Enevhar Aldarion. Apart from the much-disputed Asmodeus article, I believe that's the most complete list.
This is the exact quote from the Campaign Setting book:
Paladins worship many different deities. The most common is Iomedae, the ascended goddess of valor and justice. Erastil commands the obedience of a great many holy warriors, particularly those who uphold justice for the common folk. Paladins of Torag are highly sought as military commanders. Adventuring paladins often spread the word of Sarenrae, the goddess of the sun, honesty, healing, and redemption—for paladins often seek adventure as a form of penance. Some paladins serve Abadar, Irori, or Shelyn, but paladins who serve no specific god are actually more common.
Guys this is a golarion thread. So what the AGP or the core rules say is not law for the setting.
We know as of now they do not need a god{ from the 3.5 setting}, however if they do worship a god then common sense tells ya it is limited to ones they would agree with.
From the setting we have this list of allowed gods
Adadar=LN
Erastil=LG
Iomeda=LG
Irori=LN
Serenrae=NG
Shelyn=NG
Torag=LG
Which are all one step. We have expanded it to all gods within one step because frankly past one step is iffy.
So officially ya have the list above, but one step is always a safe bet. Past one step ya get into a very gray area about being faithful to both your god and code when they clash and past one step, they will and then why a god past one step care if ya brake a code he would never use himself.
Even some of the one step gods do not make great paladin gods {Irori} He seem to have no orders of paladins[gods and magic list none], but seems to have some paladins anyhow, just a handful it would seem[setting shows he has paladins].
So this is a setting thread, non setting books really have no ground here as setting always trumps non setting rules.
And the OP is not asking about if he must have a god, but witch gods can have paladin.
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Sorry Seeker, but that's the big thing we disagree on. Golarion has made a point with a number of different areas that different cultures see gods in many different ways. You could have a culture in the Mwangi Expanse that reveres Gorum for his influence on Battle (or a differently named aspect of Gorum) but might be overall a Good society. Heck, the Oracles are great examples of this, since they have no real alignment restrictions, and yet their powers are Divine in nature, pulling bits from multiple deities that might be more than two steps away from them in alignment (heck, the Flame Oracle pulls power from both Sarenrae AND Asmodeus).
In the world, a character won't necessarily know the alignment of every God. Heck, he may not even know all the aspects of the God depending on where he was raised, how the stories were passed down, etc. For all we know there is an area in the world that worships only the Healing and Good side of Nethys, maybe even treating them as two different deities (who's to say they really know for sure?)
Golarion does say that clerics and paladins get their powers from deities, I will agree there. But as to the 'people can only worship deities within one step of their alignment' bit? That's not true at all, and I think cuts off a LARGE amount of very cool story possibilities.
The paladins code will always restrict him to one step. He just can not be faithful to a god so far removed from his code that he can not keep it or that the god cares enough about a code so far removed from their ideas that they would enforce it.
On golarion we know all the listed gods are one step, so one step is safe. Beyond on step is iffy ground to stand on. And officially is not supported
Now home games ya can allow worship of CE bunnys if ya like, but that is not supported and is not what the OP has asked.
The list above is the allowed gods, from that list you can guess other one step gods are ok. But so far only one step gods seem to be allowed at all in golarion.
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Seeker, again, your claim is unfounded. There is nowhere that indicates Paladins need to be in one step. All the Paladin's code illustrates is that he needs to be Lawful and Good. Frankly, I just don't see how worshiping Nethys or Gozreh (both two steps away) suddenly conflicts with that.
I didn't want to start this argument again though, so it's for another thread. All I wanted to point out is that nowhere in the books (Golarion, Core, otherwise) does it indicate a Paladin or *anyone* for that matter can only worship a god within one step of their own alignment. It's called out with Clerics because it is a UNIQUE rule. It's up to each GM to decide how they wish to do it, if they want to only allow people to worship gods one step away, or more.
There is no official rule. If you find some published Pathfinder source that says "Paladins only worship LG, NG, and LN gods" then please, let me know.
See I knew the "Oh but its not really a rule even if paizo seems to use it" would come up
All the official one are one step. So yes use one step and your safe, past one step and your on "Maybe someone might let me use this" ground
By the setting paladins only have gods within one step. If you can show a soruce of past one step that has not been ruled an error then do so.
As for Nethys or Gozreh, grants you made Non -lg paladins that can brake most of the code as the gods granting them power would not care as long as they stayed faithful to there teachings.
As I said officially all supported gods are one step and using one step is safe as it's hard to say no to one step. Past one step and your at the mercy of your GM and what he thinks fits the setting as past one step ya have no proof they are allowed.
I have not had a chance to look at Orcs of Golarion yet, but are there any possibilities in there that a half-orc paladin could use, or are any deities listed there only evil?
Orc "deities" are faceless, EEEEEEvil and/or demons (possibly all three).
The most reasonable choice for a half-orc paladin is Iomedae or Sarenrae, honestly.
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Heck, the Oracles are great examples of this, since they have no real alignment restrictions, and yet their powers are Divine in nature, pulling bits from multiple deities that might be more than two steps away from them in alignment (heck, the Flame Oracle pulls power from both Sarenrae AND Asmodeus).
This is an a rather extreme misread. Oracles pull from one deity or another, just like a cleric (though they may worship/respect more then one, living in a pathiestic world). The powers just create a simular effects. For example ran a battle oracle who worships Caiden Caylen. She is mechanically the same as a battle oracle of Iomedae.
A flame Oracle would receive their powers from Sarenae OR Asmodeus, not both, at least as RAW.
The same principle would apply to paladins. 99.9% worship gods that are LN, LG, or NG. Though if I were a GM I might allow a character with a good back story to be an exception. For example, Cayden saying "okay son, let's try this, heck it might even be fun.
In the world, a character won't necessarily know the alignment of every God. Heck, he may not even know all the aspects of the God depending on where he was raised, how the stories were passed down, etc. For all we know there is an area in the world that worships only the Healing and Good side of Nethys, maybe even treating them as two different deities (who's to say they really know for sure?)
No problem with this as an idea in a campaign setting. But it is not Golarian as written.
Golarion does say that clerics and paladins get their powers from deities, I will agree there. But as to the 'people can only worship deities within one step of their alignment' bit? That's not true at all, and I think cuts off a LARGE amount of very cool story possibilities.
I think the average person probably will worship whichever diety in the way you describe, essentially paying lip service. But the people at the extremes will be more discerning, leaving some gods out of those they find acceptable to worship; at most simply acknowledging that they exist and offering no reverence.
A Paladin notes that evil and chaos exist, but offers no worship or honor to them.All the Best,
Kerney
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This is an a rather extreme misread. Oracles pull from one deity or another, just like a cleric (though they may worship/respect more then one, living in a pathiestic world). The powers just create a simular effects. For example ran a battle oracle who worships Caiden Caylen. She is mechanically the same as a battle oracle of Iomedae.A flame Oracle would receive their powers from Sarenae OR Asmodeus, not both, at least as RAW.
Really? That's strange. A quick glance at the APG tells me this:
Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals. Instead of worshiping a single source, oracles tend to venerate all of the gods that share their beliefs. While some see the powers of the oracle as a gift, others view them as a curse, changing the life of the chosen in unforeseen ways.
Now, maybe this is just another extreme misread, but it seems to indicate that Oracles gather their powers from 'many sources', and even goes so far as to mention multiple deities that they get their powers from. Perhaps I missed the section that indicated they must pick a single deity to get power from? Could you point that out for me?
The same principle would apply to paladins. 99.9% worship gods that are LN, LG, or NG. Though if I were a GM I might allow a character with a good back story to be an exception. For example, Cayden saying "okay son, let's try this, heck it might even be fun.
I am glad to see more people open to the idea of a Paladin with a good back story supporting a non LN/LG/NG god. I think there are a plethora of ideas that could work in that avenue.
No problem with this as an idea in a campaign setting. But it is not Golarian as written.
I would love it if you could point out where this is stated, it seems like it would solve a lot of problems! I could point out the most obvious example of what I said, that being Norgorber, of course. A god who is already divided into multiple different churches, with each church worshiping a different aspect and even calling him by a different name. I think the first Adventure Path even had some fellows following the Skinsaw sect.
I could also just support my initial statement, that it is quite likely for some church of Nethys to support one side or the other, healing or destruction. I'm not quite sure where I would get this idea...
Depending on its focus, a particular temple might look like a fortress, sanctuary, wizard’s tower, or even a small palace, but it is always staffed by knowledgeable people unfazed by loud noises and strange appearances. Often temples are decorated in the same colors as their ceremonial raiment, though they may just as easily be whitewashed, painted black, or left unmodified. Any significant temple has at least one chamber set aside for the specific magic its inhabitants favor, such as a summoning circle for a temple of conjuration, an infirmary for a temple of healing, and so on.
...but I certainly don't see evidence to suggest that every church in Golarion supports every aspect of the God they worship. That would get a little boring don't you think? Sure, clerics of Nethys venerate all Nethys, but some are definitely going to prefer the healing paths much more than others, to the point where that might be what they teach the majority of their students.
I think the average person probably will worship whichever diety in the way you describe, essentially paying lip service. But the people at the extremes will be more discerning, leaving some gods out of those they find acceptable to worship; at most simply acknowledging that they exist and offering no reverence.
A Paladin notes that evil and chaos exist, but offers no worship or honor to them.
Certainly. I don't, in the simplest terms, disagree with any of that. All I said is that I could see an individual who grew up only knowing one side of a God and growing to be a good and honest person who happened to worship that god. A young viking in the Land of the Linnorm Kings, a world filled with strife and battle, that turned to Gorum so he could combat injustice in the world. A Paladin that saw Gorum as the patron saint of combat (and really, all Gorum cares is that you fight, but who says the Paladin knows that?) and took him as his deity.
See I knew the "Oh but its not really a rule even if paizo seems to use it" would come up
All the official one are one step. So yes use one step and your safe, past one step and your on "Maybe someone might let me use this" ground
By the setting paladins only have gods within one step. If you can show a soruce of past one step that has not been ruled an error then do so.
As for Nethys or Gozreh, grants you made Non -lg paladins that can brake most of the code as the gods granting them power would not care as long as they stayed faithful to there teachings.
As I said officially all supported gods are one step and using one step is safe as it's hard to say no to one step. Past one step and your at the mercy of your GM and what he thinks fits the setting as past one step ya have no proof they are allowed.
Until you point out to me where, ANYWHERE, in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting it indicates that people only worship gods within one step of their own alignment, I have to disagree. Clerics, fine. That's the only place I could find the rule myself. And believe me, I'm not short on campaign setting material. I own every book and visit the Wiki regularly.
All the official rules 'for clerics' are one step. If you can quote me something else, from the rules, the companion, the campaign setting, anything, that says otherwise, then I'll be happy to hear you out. I don't disagree that it, in the end, is up to the GM, as is everything. I only disagree that it is 'official' that one step applies to everyone, non-clerics included.
Always a pleasure,
Blake