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Hello everyone. Recently my group has switched to using the pathfinder RPG system, and I decided to run RotR for them. I usually do not run pre-made adventures, so it's a bit of a learning experience for me and the players, with ups and downs.
Sadly, I did not fully sit and read all of the adventure paths or the advice online first, I just started with module 1. I am having several problems because both mine and my player's expectations for the game are a bit different then we thought it would be.
First off, most of the players made characters that have no real reason to stay in sandpoint (unless the town offers them massive amounts of money. I had sheriff Hemlock offer them 5GP a day to stay in town while he was away, otherwise half the party would tell him to screw himself and just wander Varisia.) Out of character too, I believe the players are too used to the "Town of the week" Formulae of constant traveling and the main goal being their character's backstories.
My one player's character has a father that is an evil necromancer that he is trying to hunt down. I'm already thinking of tryng to work him into the plot, but IDK when and where. Too early and it's too anti-climactic. Too late and they won't find out till it's no use.
Anyway, besides having trouble keeping them motivated to help (Oh BTW they are all NN or CN except one is CG), I am finding it hard to really convey the story to them. Alot of the details about Nualia, or the runelords, or even the catacombs of wrath and what they are are really not explained to the PCS. And while I do understand there is a level of "Wait for big reveals in later levels", It almost hurts my soul seeing the players believe the catacombs are the goblin's base, or how one of the player's took (and actually had some good reasons to have) Thassilonian (Father being necromancer and I wanted to tie into story), and I'm not sure really what to convey from most of the books and runes lying around. Or know how much of the culture he knows.
Here's a cool little story: I gave the player's a print out of Tsuto's journal (Which they easily defeated him, burnt out one of his eyes, put him in jail, and are ready to rip his limbs off if he doesn't talk. Not sure how the town feels about that....especially Ameiko), and they assumed the goblins were going to attack like the next day, and that Nualia was trying to resurrect Lamashtu and send her to the town, and that the "Smuggler's tunnel" under the glassworks is just an empty tunnel. So, we spent like 2 hours with the PC's planning on caving in the tunnel, and yelling at the important people in town (very rudely, and with hemlock still out) to immediately give weapons to every able body, and fortify themselves in the church and be ready for a goblin attack. And they started in depth planning on burning the bridges to town down, setting traps, etc. And when some of the nobles (You may be able to guess who) didn't like these ideas, the PCs threatened to kill them/let them die and leave the town.
I had to make them roll an INt check to hint that the goblins may not attack now that they hold all of their plans and one of their important men. And I had to out of character nudge them a bit to explore the cave to find the dungeon before just sealing it up and forgetting about it. And even now, they are half way through the catacombs, and they think it's actually the secret goblin base and Koruvus was transformed by his sword and that the zombies are new and the sin spawn are Nualia's creations.
I suppose it's perfect in the long run, but its soooo frustrating for now. LOL
So, I suppose, besides sharing the funny mishaps, I would like some advice on how to get the PCs to be interested, when their entire characters only care about money (and ONLY massive amounts), when they want to always be traveling and not stuck somewhere, and when they don't know what's really going on, and when the players are those type that want to go do their own thing and if I give them ANYTHING (like if I take the time to describe a commoner instead of saying "A commoner") they start massive RPing with it and assume it's major plot OR they get upset there is so much unnecessary detail and that it takes so much time.
They are a good bunch of people, but I just suppose RotR has alot more down time, mystery, and backstory then any of them (Or I) are really used to.
Oh and another small thing, one way or another, my players are about a level more then they should be, and are going through with ease. I don't want to just make everything +1 or so (Which I already have to do to convert it to PFRPG), but I don't want to give them less XP then they should be getting either.
Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Also if you have questions or would like to share your stories I'm cool with that too.
Thank you for taking the time to read all this shtuff!
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I daresay that you are in a similar boat as I was when I started. When I started I had three PCs and only one of them was Good (two of them were supposed to be but one of them just didn't play that way.) With the Good one not being particularly charismatic and deferring to the slightly off kilter Witch Doctor, who was more interested in freaking people out with his shrunken heads, I decided to go with another approach.
I made Bruthazmus a little more scary. I read Classic Monsters Revisited and found that Bugbears were the original Nightstalkers, the things that go "bump" in the night. Even moreso, he is a Ranger, which means even worse, he is a hunter. Once the party revealed themselves as an obstacle, I had Bruthazmus choose to stalk them. He doesn't need to actually attack them. But if you want to, he can snipe them with his bow on occasion, to try and "remove" them... then he can retreat back to Thistletop.
On another note, you have the various rich families in town. They may "hire" the PCs on personal retainer, but then you can make things interesting. The Scarnettis come to mind.
I would suggest that you use some of the NPCs to try to make friends with the PCs. Someone buys them a drink, a shop owner gives them free bread, etc... start helping them connect... if they alienate people, have that take things away. If they don't follow clues, things continue as planned. They will just have to fight off an assault, and I guarantee that will hurt much more...
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On the other note. Someone has come up with conversions for the Rise of the Runelords APs, check for them on the Community Creations in the Rise of the Runelords message boards.
I wish you the best of luck! My group is just wrapping up Skinsaw Murders, and are about to find out that they are connected to Karzoug in more ways than one!
You could have Shallelu try to nudge them onto the path of righteousness. And if anyone gets pushy with her, she is a few levels higher; she could shoot him through the head. ;-)
They sound like a greedy group. Have the mayor draw a line in the sand. If the party does something as stupid as assaulting her, have some hellknights roll in from Magnimar to "talk" with them. And then the Skinsaw man targets them. The Skinsaw man does love the greedy, after all.
Of course, there is still the matter of 200 goblins assaulting the town.
Bottom line, hit them a few times with the plot hammer. If they won't straighten up and fly right, then alter the plot to suit the situation. And don't shy away from a few brutal, bloody PC deaths.
I'm in with wspatterson on this one. I simply sat down with my group at the start of the campaign and said that I'd give them the story, but they got to meet me halfway, or the game will become such a ball-ache for me to try to maintain that I'd just stop.
They come out pretty good in the end, they all tied themselves into Sandpoint so that they had some empathy for the people there, and as we've progressed (just done the raid from FotSG) they've really started to like the place, and the people there.
I've tried running groups all of TN and CN and it just doesn't work for me... they all just go Captain Jack and it all falls apart from there.
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One thing to keep in mind is that some places such as the catacombs do not have to be explored right away or at all in Burnt Offerings. There will be time to revisit in later books.
For your group, I like the idea one of the posters above suggested about having one of the founding families hire the group on retainer. That may get their interest in staying
Keep track of their greed, this may be useful later on in the adventure. Remember, the runelords thrive on the seven sins. Perhaps, their greed can awaken another runelord and cause them problems. Or, switch the force that the runewell in the catacombs thrive on from wrath to greed and then let their greed start generating a bunch of sinspawn for them to deal with.
If creatures start attacking the town, it may keep the players their long enough to establish some connections.
Finally, here is an excellent source for PF conversions for RotR
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Honestly, I would play it up later on in the AP, as was mentioned above. They become the targets for "harvesting" their greedy souls to bring back Karzoug. As it gets more and more personal, you will sucker them into a vendetta against the minions of Karzoug! Additionally, it may get them to change their tune, when they find out that someone "harvested" cannot be brought back to life, by any means!
*insert evil laugh*
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Thanks for all the advice guys! I've been planning ahead a bit more now. I suppose I'm just used to making my own worlds, where it is all from my head, so winging it has become more time consuming with this. LOL I did have a talk with the players, and I do believe I am slowly getting them invested. I have one new player that is from the town (She's the Daugther of Gaven Deverin), one of the players is making his character realize in character that helping the town yields treasure, another player became an oracle, another a cleric, (Though of a TN god), and I'm giving them all dreams where there gods are hinting at them to help. LOL
I will have the nobles get involved, though I'm still trying to think of which family, and for good or worse, and which PCs. Also, I'm thinking of changing, or maybe even adding, some of the victims of the skinsaw murders to be the very few NPCS the care about in the town. (Mainly Ameiko and some hookers. WHich already I randomly rolled and one of their "Love" interests wants to become a monster.)
Also, I had gogmurt ambush them on the bridge at thistletop, (Forcing them to get in each other's way, have no means of escape, accidentally AOE themselves, and fight while in the thistles and entangled) and I think they are sooo pissed about it, I think they all now have a personal vendetta against every goblin. LOL
I'm also gonna tie the one PC's father (And other PC's enemy) into the story. I'm thinking of trying to maybe make him part of the main plot, and just make every enemy they meet has met him and knows of him, so they are following clues to him.
Another little story to share: My PCs were so frustrated at Erylium, and only defeated her due to a barbarian taking a potion of true strike, and the Alchemist using a bomb splash damage to find her, then using True Strike and the throw anything feat and impaling her on the Ranseuur that they found on the statue. Then they spent like a half hour arguing about who got her Tiara/headband thing, and got seriously violent out of character. THey take their RPGS seriously.
Thanks for all the advice guys! I've been planning ahead a bit more now. I suppose I'm just used to making my own worlds, where it is all from my head, so winging it has become more time consuming with this. LOL I did have a talk with the players, and I do believe I am slowly getting them invested. I have one new player that is from the town (She's the Daugther of Gaven Deverin), one of the players is making his character realize in character that helping the town yields treasure, another player became an oracle, another a cleric, (Though of a TN god), and I'm giving them all dreams where there gods are hinting at them to help. LOL
I will have the nobles get involved, though I'm still trying to think of which family, and for good or worse, and which PCs. Also, I'm thinking of changing, or maybe even adding, some of the victims of the skinsaw murders to be the very few NPCS the care about in the town. (Mainly Ameiko and some hookers. WHich already I randomly rolled and one of their "Love" interests wants to become a monster.)
Also, I had gogmurt ambush them on the bridge at thistletop, (Forcing them to get in each other's way, have no means of escape, accidentally AOE themselves, and fight while in the thistles and entangled) and I think they are sooo pissed about it, I think they all now have a personal vendetta against every goblin. LOL
I'm also gonna tie the one PC's father (And other PC's enemy) into the story. I'm thinking of trying to maybe make him part of the main plot, and just make every enemy they meet has met him and knows of him, so they are following clues to him.
Another little story to share: My PCs were so frustrated at Erylium, and only defeated her due to a barbarian taking a potion of true strike, and the Alchemist using a bomb splash damage to find her, then using True Strike and the throw anything feat and impaling her on the Ranseuur that they found on the statue. Then they spent like a half hour arguing about who got her Tiara/headband thing, and got seriously violent out of...
Your players sound friggin hilarious. They remind me of my players from a long time ago (who have since smartened up!)
First, read the adventures and become familiar with the story. Then run with wspatterson's advice and use their greed to pull them into the adventure. RotRL is the perfect campaign to exploit PC greed and by this I don't mean to start killing them off. Make sure to introduce some selfish NPCs to the party that can be later victims of the Skinsaw Man. For instance, have the party encounter his first three victims (con men Tarch Mortwell, Lener Hask, and Gedwin Tabe), who steal or con some of the party's treasure - which is returned to the party when they investigate the Skinsaw murders. This provides some good foreshadowing and makes it a little more personal. If you're players are as greedy as you say they are then there should be no shortage of ideas to play on this.
Also, if Aldern Foxglove hasn't made his presence noticed to the players yet then now is the time. Have him cater to the party's greed by showering them with drinks, meals, and other small monetary rewards for their earlier heroics. By now he has certainly noticed them and is only feeding their greed and sizing them up (as well as developing an obsession for one of them...)
I could go on. You could easily have a field day with your players in this AP and their greed makes them the ideal candidates for it. They have no idea what is coming up and will quickly learn that their greediness is gonna come back to bite them. In that regard, I envy you.
Good luck!