Honestly, to be fair to all styles of play, statblocks for gods SHOULD include combat information, with the official rule that GMs are free to ignore it. But in a campaign setting like Golarion where gods have been known to die or be enthralled or imprisoned, and where (in theory) any player character can become a god (however unlikely), it actually makes sense to allow for players to become gods and fight other gods.
In the original Runequest game, I really liked a couple of the fields they had for their deities:
Reason for Cult's Existence
Reason for Cult's Continued Existence
Requirements to Join a Service
Requirements to Become a Member
This got me thinking that there should be a reason why the god is worshipped, and why the god continues to be worshipped. In my homebrew, for example, Gerd has a cult because she is married to Frey, but there is no real force bringing people into it. Frigga, on the other hand, is worshipped by many clerics as the goddess of Marriage, the goddess of Fertility, because there is some advantages to making the Queen of Heaven happy, and because she can influence Odin.
Also, some religions will just let someone walk in and join in in the services. Others only allow those who pass an initiation. Also, there might be a difference between those allowed to join a service, and those who actually become a member of the congregation.
(the church I used to go to, for example, encouraged people to attend the services, but only those who were "confirmed" in that church or in a church with which they had "fellowship" were allowed to partake in Holy Communion. Other churches would give out Holy Communion to anybody.)
For 3.5/Pathfinder, I would also add:
Prestige Classes
It would be useful to know if any prestige classes are associated with the religion. It might be exclusive to the religion, like "Panther Walkers" for a goddess with a panther as her sacred animal. Or it might be one that can be found elsewhere, but is especially associated with this religion, like Duelist for a deity who favors that style of combat.
Hmm, I like that. But why just prestige classes?
What about an Ecclesiastical entry? One that lists what the deity's primary followers are? Granted a True Deity is likely going to be Clerics. But, a demigod might have mostly Oracles and few Clerics. Or a martial LG demigod might have only Paladins. A Neutral True Deity might have Druids as their only priests.
Alternately, perhaps a breakdown. Like, Clerics, Paladins, Oracles. This would indicate that they mostly have Clerics (say 75%), then Paladins (Say 20%) and finally rounding out with Oracles (5%). Prestige classes could be listed seperately, since they might or might not be ecclesiastical.
Honestly, to be fair to all styles of play, statblocks for gods SHOULD include combat information, with the official rule that GMs are free to ignore it. But in a campaign setting like Golarion where gods have been known to die or be enthralled or imprisoned, and where (in theory) any player character can become a god (however unlikely), it actually makes sense to allow for players to become gods and fight other gods.The deaths of gods in Golarian or Forgotten Realms for that matter don't occur as rules-managed events... they're story background occurances. You don't think that Paizo diced for the fate of the diety that Asmodeus replaced as patron of Cheliax?
No, of course not. OTOH, I would expect that if the players pass the Test of the Starstone, and want to continue playing the campaign as new gods, there should be something to let them. Including, if they wish, fighting Asmo, Zonnie, or Rover.
WotC published Deties & Demigods which had rules for this kind of thing, including combat stat blocks for gods. And yet, somehow plenty of campaigns existed where the players didn't rise up to attack deities. The rules existed for those who wanted to use them in epic level games, and weren't needed for more mundane games. Publishing the rules doesn't force the GM to use them, no more than I am required to let my characters play monks or wizards if it doesn't fit my campaign setting.
James least I believe it was James. Has said that until they do epic rules they won't be stating out anything that is epic.
I'd dearly love to see a citation for that, because they've already statted out epic creatures. Achaekek, for example, is a CR30 demigod. There's not much else you can call that but "epic".
Hmm, I like that. But why just prestige classes?
What about an Ecclesiastical entry? One that lists what the deity's primary followers are? Granted a True Deity is likely going to be Clerics. But, a demigod might have mostly Oracles and few Clerics. Or a martial LG demigod might have only Paladins. A Neutral True Deity might have Druids as their only priests.
Alternately, perhaps a breakdown. Like, Clerics, Paladins, Oracles. This would indicate that they mostly have Clerics (say 75%), then Paladins (Say 20%) and finally rounding out with Oracles (5%). Prestige classes could be listed seperately, since they might or might not be ecclesiastical.
As a DM, I usually either have an idea of whether I want a cleric or druid or other class, or else I decide I want a cleric and then consult a table I made to determine which deity the cleric worships.
I am assuming this stat block is for the player's benefit. It might be worth having a Priest block like the following for Gerd:
Priests: 80% druids, 15% clerics, 5% other
Prestige Classes: Ice Walker
Clergy Organization: Shamanistic 50% (01-50), Hermit 45% (51-95), Coven 5% (96-00)
The Clergy Organization field indicates how the priests are organized, with Shamanistic meaning that they "keep their day jobs (which could include Adventurer" while performing religious duties on the side, Hermit meaning they live out alone in the wilderness, Coven meaning they have small groups with one or a few priests at the core, and one or more "circles", but everybody in the coven knows everybody else.
(Here I am using the term "priest" to be generic for anybody with divine power.)
Another line that might be useful:
Region:
For Inyr, the goddess of Taverns:
Region: Inyr is worshipped wherever there are taverns, but she is most widely recognized in the cities on the eastern coast of Audor. Her missionaries have built inns up in the Dotun Mountains and as far as half-way across the Kosa Plains, serving as way stations and refuge for weary travellers.
For Frigga:
Region: In the Dotun Mountains, she is worshipped as the goddess of fertility. In Audor, other goddesses are more commonly worshipped as fertility goddesses, while Frigga is prayed to to bless and sanctify marriage.
For Skade:
Region: Skade is known in Audor and the Dotun Mountains, and occasionally attracts a worshipper who is especially attracted to her chutzpah. In the Kosa Plains, she is frequently worshipped by female warriors, especially female Barbarians, because unlike most other deities known to the Kosaka, Skade's cult does not have detailed preconceptions of "how to be a lady".
Just to note - most of a deity's clergy probably shouldn't be clerics, or druids, or other adventuring classes. At best they'd be adepts. Quite often, they would be experts with Knowledge(Religion).
Just to note - most of a deity's clergy probably shouldn't be clerics, or druids, or other adventuring classes. At best they'd be adepts. Quite often, they would be experts with Knowledge(Religion).
In my campaign, I go ahead and make them Clerics, Druids, et cetera.
I average about one Cleric for 100 NPCs, and one other divine class for 100 NPCs.
I tend not to use the Adept NPC class. If I want an NPC with a little bit of magic, I give her a couple levels of Wizard or Sorcerer or Cleric or some other spellcasting class. I figure just one or two levels of a spellcasting class gives me the right level of magic for a hedge-witch.
But your mileage may vary.
One thought, in a campaign where most of the clergy is Experts, a deity like Odin might have Experts as the majority of his clergy, while a minor deity like Gerd might have primarily Druids, the reason being that Odin attracts many people interested in religion, even if they don't have the knack for spellcasting. But only those who are serious about religion find their way into Gerd's cult, if you could even call it that, since it primarily consists of isolated hermits, shamans and covens entranced by the glory of the glaciers.
On the other hand, as mentioned for Skade, it's possible that a lot of her clergy could actually be Barbarians and Rangers, perhaps with a shaman-like Prestige Class at higher levels.
Another idea missing from the original list.
In the original Deities and Demigods Cyclopedia, I liked reading the Home Plane entry. I used to imagine what it would be like in different planes, having Isis or Shang Ti as your neighbor.
Some examples from my own homebrew:
Jorth (the patron goddess of Audor)
Home Plane: Prime Material Plane. Jorth has a great hall far below the surface.
Neryah
Home Plane: Pandemonium. Neryah lives in a palace in a snow-filled cavern. Unlike most caverns in Pandemonium, the air in this cavern is still, where the loudest sound is the deafening silence of slowly falling snow.
Creative Director
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James least I believe it was James. Has said that until they do epic rules they won't be stating out anything that is epic.
That was indeed me.
The fact that the 3rd edition Deities and Demigods came out before the Epic Level Handbook was an error, and not one that I'm keen on reproducing, basically.
Not that it FELT like an error at first... only in hindsight.
Putting out a Deities & Demigods book quick was, on the surface, not a bad idea; that was one of the original hardcovers, after all...
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The other issue was that 3.0 refused to look at the other material that they had published. WoTC back then designed each book as a separate piece and while they could work together they weren't designed for it. (Exception: Epic Level Handbook took psionics into consideration (though it couldn't bother to take Deities and Demigods into account). About the only exception I could think of)
EDIT: They of course took steps took rectify this mistake in 3.5 though it did take a long time to show. (example: Complete Mage had suggestions for feats and spells from other books when building specific types of wizards)
Wow,
Glad I started this thread. Lots of good ideas in it. :) I like Utgardloki's suggestions, and I think I'll be incorporating them into my home brew (about the stat blocks that is).
As to adept/expert/etc npc classes, I usually don't bother statting up NPCs to be honest, not even major ones. I usually just assign HPs and equipment and saves as I want them to have them, quite often on the fly.
What DID happen to aroden? Has that been clarified at all in anything? It really confounds me.He's on hold
"Thank you for waiting. Your call is important to us and will be answered shortly..."
And the muzak they make you listen is profane!
And meanwhile my old charwoman has taken over my business while I wait for this.
You just don't get decent service in this multiverse any more. I blame the proteans.
You don't think that Paizo diced for the fate of the diety that Asmodeus replaced as patron of Cheliax?
Yes, they did. That damn die is still spinning.