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In my games if you were willingly travelling with someone you knew was evil and not taking serious steps to redeem or slay him, you'd be a fallen paladin in no time. YMMV.
As for annoying, (depending on your level) manacle and tie him up every night and preach to him all through the night sbout Iomedae so that he gets NO sleep, then use lesser restoration on yourself to remove your fatigue. If the rogue wants some too, he has to convince you Iomedae is his new deity...
If you are trying to redeem him...
A) Follow him everywhere.
B) Don't let him go off on his own.
C) Don't let him interact with anyone without you being there.
D) When he talks to people on the street and lies, tell them he's lying and scold him in front of them.
E) Badger him to do good deeds, and then praise him when he does.
F) If he refuses any of the above, knock him unconscious, tie him up, and use his gold for charity. Then apologize and untie him when he's no longer a threat to good folk.
G) If he attacks you in character with intent to harm, subdue him and then lecture him for several days.
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If you are trying to redeem him...
A) Follow him everywhere.
B) Don't let him go off on his own.
C) Don't let him interact with anyone without you being there.
D) When he talks to people on the street and lies, tell them he's lying and scold him in front of them.
E) Badger him to do good deeds, and then praise him when he does.
F) If he refuses any of the above, knock him unconscious, tie him up, and use his gold for charity. Then apologize and untie him when he's no longer a threat to good folk.
G) If he attacks you in character with intent to harm, subdue him and then lecture him for several days.
Wow, if I was the Rogue in a game where the Paladin tried any of that he would most likely be a dead Paladin.
From the Rogues perspective.
A) Laugh at him and tease him relentlessly as he tries to keep up to you while wearing his heavy armor.
B) Follow the Paladin around so he is never alone, Paladins by nature are insecure people. He needs a friend.
C) Don't let him interact with anyone without you being there.
D) When he talks to people on the street sit in the background cracking jokes about him and try to get him to lose his temper and make a fool out of himself..
E) Badger him to do evil deeds, and then praise him when he does.
F) If he refuses any of the above, knock him unconscious, tie him up, and use his gold for your ill gotten gains. Then apologize and untie him when he's no longer a threat to your evil machinations.
G) If he attacks you in character with intent to harm, take him down with extreme prejudice.
But in all seriousness this is the type of stuff that can destroy a game.
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Personally, even if I was given the DM's blessing to be as annoying as possible, I wouldn't.
Why on earth would the rogue listen to someone who's annoying?
Few suggestions:
-- When the rogue's evil actions cause them misery/pain/problems, remind them that they only have themselve to blame and suggest alternate 'good' ways they could have handled the situation/done what was done. This requires a great deal of tact and empathy - knowing what to say and when(if) to say it.
-- Discuss the value of good friends and how to keep them. At the very least they can carry things without your fearing they'll steal them.
-- When they need help, assuming they havn't massacred the local council, give them help - i.e lend them gold when noone else will, food when they're starving. Once again, common sense is required - don't be too hasty to offer them help and don't be afraid to 'tax' them a good deed/their time in return.
-- Lead by example - don't allow them to assign blame to others/the world/the universe for their actions.
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Essentially, you want them to choose to be good because 'it makes sense' and is, basically, a better way of living with better rewards.
Dude, this is something I would love to handle, but I would make my character rather different. I would make him middle aged, a father figure of sorts, and inspire the misguided rogue to WANT to do good. Give him the positive attention he must have lacked growing up into a devious a#**@!~.
Recently in my Kingmaker campain, the rogue have been discovered communicating with the enemy, and breaching the trust of the party by keeping this a secret, and endangering them all. The cleric has a paladin cohort, and what happened was that he stepped forward, said that the rogue did not radiate an aura of evil, and that he trusted him. Then punched him in the face for being a douche, and told him that he was offended that the rogue did not give the same trust back. And allowed the rogue to retaliate if he felt that the punch was truly uncalled for.
OP : If the DM told you to be annoying as possible , think what he told the rogue pc ;)
And you guys saying he should become a fallen paladin because he is traveling with an evil companion... thats a bit harsh. Yes the rules TECHNICALLY say that, but you can't penalize a PC because another PC wants to play an evil character. After all he is LAWFUL evil, the paladin just has to keep on him as much as possible to make sure he is more LAWFUL than evil ;)
Now if the paladin witnessed him doing evil acts, or KNOWINGLY turned a blind eye while the rogue did evil acts then yes there is an issue... however if the rogue sneaks away and does his own thing, you can't penalize the paladin for that at all.
My old 2e group had a Paladin, a CG Cleric, a CE Rogue/Fighter, and my CN Ranger(who went insane and was CN with evil tendencies, a blast to roleplay lol) and the paladin had his hands full as the CG cleric was going against the law to do the right thing, had to keep my insane guy in check, and the entire time had to monitor the CE character. Granted myself, the cleric and the rogue/fighter did a lot of cloak and dagger stuff while 1-2 of the other PC's would distract the paladin, but this was all done through notes/aside from the paladin so he literally had no idea we were doing it (not even metagaming).
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
So , clearly if they are working towards the same goal you can't penalize the paladin... i think that rule mostly applies to say the paladin cant high five a lich and say "we're homies right?" and turn a blind eye as the lich is amassing his undead army lol
..the paladin cant high five a lich and say "we're homies right?" and turn a blind eye as the lich is amassing his undead army lol
Hey, you leave my Lich homie out of this..
...before I pop a hat in yo donkey.
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With the idea that the whole point of the game is to have fun: I would sit down with the rogue player and have a brainstorming session on how the alignment dynamic could be used to inject humor (or drama) into the game. If both players aren't on the same page, this situation could turn imto one of those scenes that busts up a good group.
My 2c.
With the idea that the whole point of the game is to have fun: I would sit down with the rogue player and have a brainstorming session on how the alignment dynamic could be used to inject humor (or drama) into the game. If both players aren't on the same page, this situation could turn imto one of those scenes that busts up a good group.
My 2c.
Yes, my original post had assumed that the rogue's player is in on it.
As a GM, I would not allow a Paladin and an evil in the same party unless the players were on board with it being a 'One of us is going to corrupt the other' sort of thing, with either the Paladin ending up an Anti-paladin, or the rogue ending up a Neutral or Good rogue at the end.
If the Rogue's player is not in on it, then all my suggestions are simply going to cause the game to implode.
No one has directly said that. Please read the posts carefully.OP : If the DM told you to be annoying as possible , think what he told the rogue pc ;)
And you guys saying he should become a fallen paladin because he is traveling with an evil companion...
In my games if you were willingly travelling with someone you knew was evil and not taking serious steps to redeem or slay him, you'd be a fallen paladin in no time. YMMV.
Uh huh... so if there is a paladin and a LE rogue your options for the paladin are:
a.) Kill him
or
b.) Try and convert him , if that fails, see option "A" ?
c.) become a fallen paladin
?
Clearly you've never heard the expression "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" , good and evil can work together, albeit the evil character likely has some hidden motivations (ie. overthrow a tyrant, only take take the place for his own).
Also, drop the condescending attitude, doesn't contribute well to the forum. I'm sick people with the holier than thou attitude on this forum, I did read your post, I disagreed with it in a thoughtful post.
take the selective channeling feat and then "forget" to include the rogue in the radius when you heal the party.
use the aid another option...to help any neutral or good npc the rogue is interacting with.
but whatever you do, dont start playing lawful stupid and doing things in character that dont make since for LG...unless YOU'RE the one looking to change alignment.
In a similar situation, I tipped off the city guard that the party member was a thief and paid the guard a couple of gold pieces to hire extra help and have him tailed wherever he went when he was in the city.
I've also posted wanted posters with the rogue's picture all over the city and established a reward for his capture in the commission of crimes.
I did both of these surrepititously, so even though the rogue suspected I was behind it, he could not be sure. These actions encouraged the rogue to act in a lawful manner while in town and discouraged overt evil actions.
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In a similar situation, I tipped off the city guard that the party member was a thief and paid the guard a couple of gold pieces to hire extra help and have him tailed wherever he went when he was in the city.
I've also posted wanted posters with the rogue's picture all over the city and established a reward for his capture in the commission of crimes.
I did both of these surrepititously, so even though the rogue suspected I was behind it, he could not be sure. These actions encouraged the rogue to act in a lawful manner while in town and discouraged overt evil actions.
I would Liken that to trying to destroy another players game play.
For other players, it provides another option besides hitting him with a sword....which will decisively end gameplay. For me, I considered passing the information off to legitimate authority the lawful thing to do.