I've finally decided to go in and houserule the heck out of Pathfinder to get the game to fit what I want out of it. One thing I'm not satisfied with are a lot of the core feats. So I'm going through to see what can be done to make every feat an exciting and tantalizing choice to made and feel like a real power upgrade for the character. Every time a feat is written down on that character sheet it should feel like the moment when an Immortal in Highlander cuts another Immortal's head off.
First, a look at the feats...
PRD wrote: Arcane Armor Training (Combat)
You have learned how to cast spells while wearing armor.
Prerequisites: Light Armor Proficiency, caster level 3rd.
Benefit: As a swift action, reduce the arcane spell failure chance due to the armor you are wearing by 10% for any spells you cast this round.
PRD wrote: Arcane Armor Mastery (Combat)
You have mastered the ability to cast spells while wearing armor.
Prerequisites: Arcane Armor Training, Medium Armor Proficiency, caster level 7th.
Benefit: As a swift action, reduce the arcane spell failure chance due to the armor you are wearing by 20% for any spells you cast this round. This bonus replaces, and does not stack with, the bonus granted by Arcane Armor Training.
The big issue I have with these feats are the caster level prerequisites. It's just another head scratching moment, and the fact that this is a Paizo design, and not extending back to 3.0, makes it even more confusing.
The only thing I can figure out is that it was aimed at following along a progression to the Eldritch Knight prestige class. The player would take two levels of fighter, then three levels of wizard/sorcerer, at which point the arcane armor training could be taken at the 5th level. Then with another two levels of wizard/sorcerer the character would finally qualify for Eldritch Knight. At eight level the character finally gets to take the prestige class, and finally at 10th level Arcane Armor Mastery clicks in.
I just don't see why all the wait is needed. Ten levels of sub-optimal play to finally shore up a major deficiency just isn't worth it.
I'm inclined to simply switch out the caster level prerequisites to say, "Ability to cast arcane spells."
The other adjustment I'd make is with the light armor proficiency would be to insert in shield proficiency as a prerequisite and then allow the bonus to extend to shields also.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Erm ... you qualify for EK at Wiz 5/Fgt 1, and you take AAT at level 4.
And you don't even need AAM that much. AAT + mithral breastplate and you're set. And if your GM loves you, he might even allow the Twilight ability, opening the way to running around in Full Plate with negligible spell failure.
I've honestly considered the following myself :
Arcane Armor Training (Combat)
You are learing how to cast spells while wearing armor.
Prerequisites : Ability to cast Arcane Spells, DEX or STR 13+
Benefit : As a swift action, you may reduce the arcane spell failure penalty of light armor you are proficient with by 10%.
Arcane Armor Mastery (Light) (Combat)
You have learned how to cast spells while wearing armor.
Prerequisites : Arcane Armor Training, Caster Level 3rd
Benefit : You no longer take arcane spell failure penalties from casting spells while wearing light armor you are proficient with.
Arcane Shield Mastery (Combat)
You have learned how to cast spells while using a shield.
Prerequisites : Arcane Armor Mastery (Any)
Benefit : You no longer take arcane spell failure penalties from casting spells while using a shield you are proficient with (but not with Tower shields).
Arcane Armor Mastery (Medium) (Combat)
You have learned how to cast spells while wearing medium armor.
Prerequisites : Arcane Armor Mastery (Light)
Benefit : You no longer take arcane spell failure penalties from casting spells while wearing Medium armor you are proficient with.
Arcane Armor Mastery (Heavy) (Combat)
You have learned how to cast spells while wearing heavy armor.
Prerequisites : Arcane Armor Mastery (Heavy)
Benefit : You no longer take arcane spell failure penalties from casting spells while wearing Heavy armor you are proficient with.
Yes, there's a one-feat tax for no arcane spell failure penalty (unless you're a bard, a bard has Arcane Armor Mastery (Light) as a class ability). However, I don't think that's a bad thing, wizards shouldn't be in full plate without putting a LOT of effort into it. Plus it gives bard's a bit of a boost as well, which is not a bad thing.
Gorbacz wrote: Erm ... you qualify for EK at Wiz 5/Fgt 1, and you take AAT at level 4.
And you don't even need AAM that much. AAT + mithral breastplate and you're set. And if your GM loves you, he might even allow the Twilight ability, opening the way to running around in Full Plate with negligible spell failure.
You're right. When I was typing it out I briefly forgot that it was a combat feat and thus need to wait till 5th level for a character feat.
Mithral though isn't perfect, as you still have a 5% chance of spell failure with the breastplate. I'd hate to have to spend a feat just to reduce the chance, rather than eliminate it all together.
So yeah, looking at the numbers is also important. Ultimately we're just talking about chain shirts and breastplates as the end targets.
Considering there is a pathfinder trait that increases your caster level by 2 (up to character level) and a 3.5 feat that increases it by 4, it is pretty easy to attain these feats as early as 3rd and 7th levels, respectfully.
My bigger issue with the feats is the swift action requirement. That requirement seems completely conterproductive when used with an Eldritch Knight. The benefit should be an "always on" feature IMO.
mdt wrote: I've honestly considered the following myself : The problem I see with breaking it into so many feats is that you aren't much of a warrior at that point, more of a wizard wearing armor. Beyond being drastically behind in BAB, the player would be drained of so many feats that need to go to combat that not much would be possible in terms of combat.
A lot of this is going to be mute due to the Magus I suppose, but it was puzzling how Paizo put the tools into the game to try and be a gish, but then immediately made the prerequisites so daunting as to make it unfeasible.
Mok wrote: mdt wrote: I've honestly considered the following myself : The problem I see with breaking it into so many feats is that you aren't much of a warrior at that point, more of a wizard wearing armor. Beyond being drastically behind in BAB, the player would be drained of so many feats that need to go to combat that not much would be possible in terms of combat.
A lot of this is going to be mute due to the Magus I suppose, but it was puzzling how Paizo put the tools into the game to try and be a gish, but then immediately made the prerequisites so daunting as to make it unfeasible. A) Note that the progression I had above only required caster level 3. And all were combat feats, so you could get them all splitting fighter/wizard for the first 6 levels or so. My idea with the feats like that was to make a fighter/wizard multiclass character viable. Or to make a bard more survivable.
Honestly, a gish should require a lot of effort, you're getting the best of both worlds. If it was easy, then no one would play a straight wizard or fighter (or you'd end up with 4E's awful mess).
Brett Blackwell wrote: My bigger issue with the feats is the swift action requirement. That requirement seems completely conterproductive when used with an Eldritch Knight. The benefit should be an "always on" feature IMO. I haven't really crunched the swift actions that are available. I find them under represented in the game as a whole.
But yeah, I'm not seeing the need for the swift action either.
mdt wrote: Honestly, a gish should require a lot of effort, you're getting the best of both worlds. If it was easy, then no one would play a straight wizard or fighter (or you'd end up with 4E's awful mess). I agree, there have to be trade-offs. The sheer fact of multiclassing I think does take a big bite out of the power stacking. Stepping away from full caster progression means you're losing, and stepping away from full BAB means your losing.
I guess the way I'd see these feats is that they could be used at 1st level if you really desired it (human taking Light Armor and Arcane Armor Training) though that would be painfully sub-optimal. It would be far better to just do fighter 1, wizard 1 and take the AAT at 2nd level.
That way the concept is getting realized right from the beginning, rather than having to slog through unsatisfying levels. You might be pretty sucky on both ends of the gish, but at least you can do them without feeling completely inadequate.
Wouldn't it be easier to just house rule out arcane spell failure as a whole then waste time thinking about feats and things?
Wizards could wear plate armour in Dave Arneson's campaigns after all. You'd still need proficiencies and have to be able to lug the armor around.
Morgen wrote: Wouldn't it be easier to just house rule out arcane spell failure as a whole then waste time thinking about feats and things? It would. I guess a part of my design goal is to try and tweak the existing system, retaining all of the core material as much as possible but nudging it in different ways.
Waving away arcane spell failure creates a cascading effect that would need to be looked at in more detail to see what the overall implications are.
Not to mention that Mage Armor gives you the AC bonus of Ghost touch Chain shirt, While Greater mage Armor (spell compendium)gives you the Ac bonus of Ghost Touch Breast plate, And bracers of Armor can give you the AC bonus of Half-plate. I think the Ability to where armor as a mage is kind of a moot point (Not pointless, I just don't see the attraction)
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
My solution: Arcane Armor Training requires ability to cast arcane spells instead of a specific caster level, and Arcane Armor Mastery is reduced to requiring 5th level spells. Arcane Armor Mastery's text is changed as follows: "Reduce the arcane spell failure for any armor you wear by 15%. This reduction stacks with that granted by Arcane Armor Training (although you must still use a swift action to activate Arcane Armor Training)."
This allows for some decent combinations of armor that still leave your swift action free - you can wear studded leather, or regular leather plus a light shield, with no spell failure chance. If you can get your hands on mithril, a mithril breastplate or a mithril chain shirt plus a mithril heavy shield can be worn with zero spell failure. And for those casters who are willing to give up their swift actions, you don't even need mithril breastplate to have 0% spell failure - just regular will do. And if you happen to be rich in addition to willing to give up your swift actions, you can go the whole nine yards - mithril full plate and a mithril heavy shield has no arcane spell failure when you spend a swift action.
Of course you still either spent a lot of feats or dipped a level of fighter and still spent a couple feats, so I'm not too worried about this being overpowered - you no longer need to Mage Armor yourself, but a pure caster is still gonna outcast you.
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