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Hey there,
We are about to do a big PvP Arena Match, 10+ players, and loads of issues with regards to Invisibility, Hide in Plain Sight etc...
If someone has a Stealth of 25,30+ or whatever, and rolls decent, it puts a pretty high DC on detecting them, even if they are right there...Shadowdancer hiding in Shadows, for example.
Does an Arcane Archer's Seeker Arrow, or other such powers ignore this?
Blindsense, Blind Fighting, Scent, etc...
Feel fee to chime in with clarifications (Officially, especially).
-Uriel
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I think the lack of answers you're getting is mostly due to people having talked themselves dry on this particular subject. My advice: Search the forum for a thread titled "Dealing with Hide In Plain Sight", read it (get a bag of popcorn first), and come back here when you're done with any thoughts or questions you might have.
I have my own opinion, but god knows, don't we all.
Blindsense is actually pretty self explanatory.
Blindsense: Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has total concealment (50% miss chance) against a creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
So if you have Blindsense you don’t have to roll a Perception check to notice the Shadowdancer using HiPS within the range of your Blindsense ability. However, just because you know he is there doesn’t mean you can defend against his attacks any better. You know which square he is in, but unless you meet the Perception DC to see him you still suffer the miss chance because you can’t actually see him. Also since you can’t actually see him you will still be denied your Dex bonus which allows him to get Sneak Attack damage when attacking you. The difference between a guy with Blindsense and a guy without it is that when the Shadowdancer disappears you still know which square he is in even if you fail your Perception check and can proceed to attack him with whatever means are at your disposal. If you do make the Perception check, obviously, you are no longer unable to see him and as such would not suffer from miss chance or Sneak Attack (although he may still have concealment if he is actually standing IN an area of dim light or darkness, or has a blur effect, etc…). On a side note, some extra sensory abilities provide a bonus to Perception checks; this bonus is listed under the description of the Perception Skill. Both Scent and Tremorsense grant a +8 bonus to Perception checks in addition to their normal function. Blindsense is not listed among them; however, as it is very similar in nature to Scent and Tremorsense I would consider giving it the same +8 bonus to Perception checks to notice unseen enemies within the range of the ability. But that would be up to DM discretion.
True Blindsight will negate the Shadowdancers Stealth all together, as well as any concealment from the lighting conditions, any blur effects, or invisibility.
Scent allows a creature to automatically know that the enemy is in the area of its Scent range. That is not to say it auto-locates the enemy. All Scent does is tell you when the creature is in your range. Noting the direction of the creature is a Move Action and then if you move within 5’ of the unseen creature you can pinpoint its location. Alternately if you have Scent and Survival you can make Survival checks to follow the scent trail of the creature as if tracking its foot prints. Again you won’t be able to pinpoint an unseen foe until you get within 5’ of its actual location. Keep in mind Scent can be fooled by false odors. Also I would treat it like Blindsense where you have pinpointed the 5’ square that the unseen enemy is in, but without a successful Perception check you still can’t actually see the enemy, in which case you suffer the appropriate miss chance and are subject to Sneak Attack. You do however have a major advantage to Perception checks since Scent grants a +8 to your check. Now, if this is a situation where a Ranger or Druid wants to send his Animal Companion to find the Shadowdancer, keep a few things in mind. The Animal Companion is still an animal with about 2 Intelligence, so you can’t tell it to “Find the Rogue.” This is a situation where you are 10 on 10 and the animal is dealing with multiple enemies that it CAN see. IMO in the middle of the chaos of battle the animal would not (unless specifically trained to do so) spend the rounds necessary to notice “Oh I smell ten unfamiliar odors but only see nine unfamiliar creatures” then take the time to figure out which unfamiliar odor belongs to which unfamiliar creature until it finds the one that doesn’t have a visible owner. Then take a Move Action to determine general direction of the source of that smell and wander aimlessly (or Track if it has Survival skills) until it manages to get within 5’ of a MOVING unseen target and finally pinpoint it’s 5’ square. I just don’t see that happening. Now, if the Ranger/Druid has previously trained it’s Animal Companion to hunt unseen foes and provides the animal with an article of clothing from the Shadowdancer so the Animal can lock onto that smell, then that is a whole different scenario and completely feasible. Otherwise, I think it would focus in enemies it can readily see, unless the Shadowdancer posses a more immediate threat to the Ranger/Druid or the Animal Companion than all the visible enemies do.
Blind-Fight is a really good feat to have against a Shadowdancer. Firstly if you fail your Perception check but otherwise manage to narrow down the Shadowdancer’s location to a 5’ square you have an advantage when you attack. If you miss your attack due to the miss chance for not being able to see the Shadowdancer you can re-roll it giving you a second chance. Also, even if you fail your Perception check against the Shadowdancer you will still not be denied your Dex bonus and thus not subject to Sneak Attack. Now he could very well deny your Dex bonus in some other way and Sneak Attack you, but if he has HiPS it is a fair bet that he will be fairly reliant on it and not terribly focused at other methods of denying Dex bonuses to his enemies.
Arcane Archer Seeker Arrow: Wow, it really sucks to be the Shadowdancer if the Arcane Archer wants him dead. I had not thought of that before but upon reading the Arcane Archer’s abilities I am pretty certain it will ignore the Shadowdancer’s Stealth. This arrow shoots around corners and ignores all concealment, to include Total Concealment 50% (which usually indicates that you cannot be seen). Also the Phase arrow shoots through walls. Now these things tend to indicate that the Arcane Archer doesn’t actually need to SEE you in order to hit you with these abilities. He just needs to “know you are out there” so the question is: Does the Arcane Archer know the Shadowdancer is out there? If this is an Arena type setting where the teams know they are 10 on 10 then it’s a fair bet he does. If it is more of a random encounter or an ambush then probably not at first, but maybe after the first couple times the Shadowdancer pops out to Sneak Attack one of his friends. So the Shadowdancer’s best defense against the Arcane Archer is to get a surprise attack and flat footed first round on him and hope he is dead after that point, if not commence with the flanking because it sounds like that will be his biggest danger.
There are many, many threads already on the forums about Stealth and HiPS but I am not sure if they discuss the specific questions you had asked. If you are interested though I can post links to most of them.
“Also since you can’t actually see him you will still be denied your Dex bonus which allows him to get Sneak Attack damage when attacking you.”
Can you show me where in the Pathfinder rules it says that Concealment makes your target lose his DEX? I see only Invisibility and the foe being blind.