that does suck man, hate to hear it.
OUCH..sorry to hear that, Fray.
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I really think amazon is killing them. When you can get a book on amazon for almost 40% off of MSRP, it's very hard to pass up the cheaper deal (I know I'm guilty of this). What people fail to take into account, however, is all of the other things that FLGSs provide--none of the ones i've been to charge for use of the game rooms, they provide a safe place for children/teens to go hang out (beats the hell outta cruising or other sh!t kids do when they're bored), and they'll usually provide classes, free RPG day stuff, places for society play, etc. etc. the list goes on.
I guess people need to think about that the next time they order from amazon...is amazon going to provide you (or your kids when you have kids) a place to hang out and play?
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We (or I) always paid for our gaming table. $2/person. I wanted to do something to support the store besides from what I was buying from them and I usually bought something every other games session. (A few of the games I bought have not even been played yet...)
They also had a wall of board games available to rent and play in the store. There were tournies every Sat that I didn't play my game and several weekly MtG tournies or YuGiOh. It had solid tournies but it didn't seem to be selling enough. (It was a board/card game store with just a little RPG section (4e) though they did have a Pathfinder Bestiary on the shelf. (My group is the only Pathfinder players.) Several 4e and Star Wars groups played on a regular basis.
They were busy, I don't know why they are closing. I'll miss Gameology.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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That's a shame. FLGS's really have to work extra hard to build a customer base because of options like Amazon. Heck, Amazon's discount is nearly what retailers get from their distributors!
Did the owners indicate a reason for closing? Maybe you could buy them out and keep it open, if it is as busy as you indicate...
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That's a shame. FLGS's really have to work extra hard to build a customer base because of options like Amazon. Heck, Amazon's discount is nearly what retailers get from their distributors!
Did the owners indicate a reason for closing? Maybe you could buy them out and keep it open, if it is as busy as you indicate...
I would think twice or three times before opening/owning a game store. The overhead is pretty high (you have to have a second empty room) and costs are up there--Games workshop only offers a 45% discount on their items, and most online places (ebay, amazon) sell them at a 20% discount.
I would only open a gaming store if I didn't need the money anddidn't have to work anywhere else, and my goal would be to break even.
I really think amazon is killing them. When you can get a book on amazon for almost 40% off of MSRP, it's very hard to pass up the cheaper deal (I know I'm guilty of this). What people fail to take into account, however, is all of the other things that FLGSs provide--none of the ones i've been to charge for use of the game rooms, they provide a safe place for children/teens to go hang out (beats the hell outta cruising or other sh!t kids do when they're bored), and they'll usually provide classes, free RPG day stuff, places for society play, etc. etc. the list goes on.
I guess people need to think about that the next time they order from amazon...is amazon going to provide you (or your kids when you have kids) a place to hang out and play?
I agree on Amazon being the FLGS-slayer. Combination of significant discount, free shipping and no sales tax is nearly impossible to beat.
I think for game stores to survive these economic times they need to emphasize the "friendly" part of FLGS. When I made a major geographic relocation years back I had to leave behind the FLGS that had served me through college, grad school and beyond. I really missed my old FLGS, so I can understand where the OP is coming from. That said, the area I moved into had gaming stores but they all lacked the "Friendly" aspect I had enjoyed so much. Faced with just another store that would exchange my money for products, I turned to Amazon.
In the past year, one of the two LGS has closed and the other is doing poorly and will probably shut down in the near future (or so I hear). Gaming stores need to put in the extra effort for their customers. The stores I mentioned didn't do that. Instead they made it hard to justify giving them business with actions like giving me grief over special orders I wanted to place or, IMHO, extremely stupid policies that actively discouraged browsing.
I've rambled off topic a bit. OP - sorry again to hear you're losing your FLGS. Sounds like you did everything you could to be a loyal customer. Hopefully you can at least find somewhere else to host your game...
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I agree on Amazon being the FLGS-slayer. Combination of significant discount, free shipping and no sales tax is nearly impossible to beat.
I think for game stores to survive these economic times they need to emphasize the "friendly" part of FLGS. When I made a major geographic relocation years back I had to leave behind the FLGS that had served me through college, grad school and beyond. I really missed my old FLGS, so I can understand where the OP is coming from. That said, the area I moved into had gaming stores but they all lacked the "Friendly" aspect I had enjoyed so much. Faced with just another store that would exchange my money for products, I turned to Amazon.
In the past year, one of the two LGS has closed and the other is doing poorly and will probably shut down in the near future (or so I hear). Gaming stores need to put in the extra effort for their customers. The stores I mentioned didn't do that. Instead they made it hard to justify giving them business with actions like giving me grief over special orders I wanted to place or, IMHO, extremely stupid policies that actively discouraged browsing.
I've rambled off topic a bit. OP - sorry again to hear you're losing your FLGS. Sounds like you did everything...
Allright, I guess I should have quantified my statement. If your FLGS does indeed live up to the F in FLGS, then you should seriously consider supporting them if you can afford a little extra. If, on the other hand, they aren't so friendly, tell them how you feel and let them know what you want to to see changed. If they truly are customer minded, then they will try to change their ways. If they don't want to change, I guarantee you aren't the only one feeling that way and you're better off saving your money by shopping at amazon.
I really think amazon is killing them. When you can get a book on amazon for almost 40% off of MSRP, it's very hard to pass up the cheaper deal (I know I'm guilty of this). What people fail to take into account, however, is all of the other things that FLGSs provide--none of the ones i've been to charge for use of the game rooms, they provide a safe place for children/teens to go hang out (beats the hell outta cruising or other sh!t kids do when they're bored), and they'll usually provide classes, free RPG day stuff, places for society play, etc. etc. the list goes on.
I guess people need to think about that the next time they order from amazon...is amazon going to provide you (or your kids when you have kids) a place to hang out and play?
+1
+1I really think amazon is killing them. When you can get a book on amazon for almost 40% off of MSRP, it's very hard to pass up the cheaper deal (I know I'm guilty of this). What people fail to take into account, however, is all of the other things that FLGSs provide--none of the ones i've been to charge for use of the game rooms, they provide a safe place for children/teens to go hang out (beats the hell outta cruising or other sh!t kids do when they're bored), and they'll usually provide classes, free RPG day stuff, places for society play, etc. etc. the list goes on.
I guess people need to think about that the next time they order from amazon...is amazon going to provide you (or your kids when you have kids) a place to hang out and play?
I agree, but my wallet tends to say otherwise. There are some things I buy exclusively at my FLGS, however.
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I agree, but my wallet tends to say otherwise. There are some things I buy exclusively at my FLGS, however.+1I really think amazon is killing them. When you can get a book on amazon for almost 40% off of MSRP, it's very hard to pass up the cheaper deal (I know I'm guilty of this). What people fail to take into account, however, is all of the other things that FLGSs provide--none of the ones i've been to charge for use of the game rooms, they provide a safe place for children/teens to go hang out (beats the hell outta cruising or other sh!t kids do when they're bored), and they'll usually provide classes, free RPG day stuff, places for society play, etc. etc. the list goes on.
I guess people need to think about that the next time they order from amazon...is amazon going to provide you (or your kids when you have kids) a place to hang out and play?
I tend to buy my core rulebooks on amazon (They're about $25 less), and I have my AP subscription here, but everything else I buy at my FLGS (dice, minis, etc.)
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It's an interesting time ... and it's not just the local gaming stores. Online companies are reshaping the retail landscape all over.
I know of at least one local guitar store near me that used to stock tons of new guitars and related equipment and were always busy. Now they stock very few new guitars or other equipment. They sell a decent amount of used stuff but their sales are nowhere near what they used to be,
The owner confided to me that most people go to the big online music sites to buy guitars etc because they can get instruments WAY cheaper online than he could EVER sell them at. Now, other than some used equipment, he mainly sells smaller stuff like strings etc and gives lessons. You can see in his eys that it's a bit depressing for him.
Kind of reminds me of the situation many FLGSs are in.
It's such a double edged sword. On the one hand, you want to support the local guy because you know they provide all those other side benefits BUT it's hard to beat the cost savings of buying online.
Rock and a Hard Place indeed ...
Its happening everywhere. When neutral grounds closed in manhattan i was both shocked and heartbroken. So much of my gaming youth happened there. And that store was never empty, but it seems the margins are just getting slimmer and slimmer for FLGSs. A couple other local stores that i used to frequent have also closed in recent memory. There is now no real gaming store that i know of in brooklyn or manhattan besides The complete strategist which i dont really count because that is just a store front, a store without gaming space is not really something i am worried about supporting.
I do not think a store can make money solely on Friendly. I am not saying customer service is unimportant. It seems pretty obvious the major factor in a consumer's mind is price.
To survive, FLGS's are going to have to find something they can offer that websites can not and it is going to have to be more than remembering your name.
I wish I had an answer because I would like to see the stores survive. I lost one myself.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
A four score and several threads ago, I outlined my idea for the Dripping Dagger, which was just that. Then Lilith came along and told me that even further back someone outlined yet another idea for a combination FLGS/Restaurant.
Hit us with yours- floor plans, themes, the works. Hopefully a passing philanthropist will see your idea and want to give you seed money on it.
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Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
Unfortunately, in my experience, foodservice is another industry/business with a very low profit margin. A bar OTOH, has very good profit margins.
Sorry, but Dripping Dagger is just a horrible name for anything related to food. First thing that came to mind with the name was, "You might want to see a doctor."Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
A four score and several threads ago, I outlined my idea for the Dripping Dagger, which was just that. Then Lilith came along and told me that even further back someone outlined yet another idea for a combination FLGS/Restaurant.
Hit us with yours- floor plans, themes, the works. Hopefully a passing philanthropist will see your idea and want to give you seed money on it.
ROTFL!!!! My friends said that too.
I am not sure that would work well. Restaurants are their own niche. I think it would be like multi-classing. It would just be a sub-optimal FLGS and restaurant instead of a true synergy.
I am not sure that would work well. Restaurants are their own niche. I think it would be like multi-classing. It would just be a sub-optimal FLGS and restaurant instead of a true synergy.
Just needs a good PrC. :)
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There is a game shop that serves snacks and prepared food in packages, like pizzas, hot dogs, sandwiches, etc, and drinks. My buddy goes there and says he makes more profit from the food than the gaming stuff.
Also he has microwaves to cook the food in.
One thing to consider, if you are actually making the food at the same location you will need a permit and get quarterly health inspections. They have all their own ups and downs and paperworks and regulations to deal with too.
I think a game shop + DVD + books + snackies + internet services would do well.
It's an interesting time ... and it's not just the local gaming stores. Online companies are reshaping the retail landscape all over.
I know of at least one local guitar store near me that used to stock tons of new guitars and related equipment and were always busy. Now they stock very few new guitars or other equipment. They sell a decent amount of used stuff but their sales are nowhere near what they used to be,
The owner confided to me that most people go to the big online music sites to buy guitars etc because they can get instruments WAY cheaper online than he could EVER sell them at. Now, other than some used equipment, he mainly sells smaller stuff like strings etc and gives lessons. You can see in his eys that it's a bit depressing for him.
Kind of reminds me of the situation many FLGSs are in.
It's such a double edged sword. On the one hand, you want to support the local guy because you know they provide all those other side benefits BUT it's hard to beat the cost savings of buying online.
Rock and a Hard Place indeed ...
I've seen something very similar. The guitar shop my Dad and I bought from exclusively for the past 30 years closed recently. We were both heartbroken by it, but we saw it coming for a long time. It was a privately owned business, and as loyal customers we got a massive discount, almost to the point of paying what they paid to stock the items. They used to stock a huge selection of major guitars; lots of Gibson, Fender, Dean, Ibanez, Marshall Amps, etc. It went downhill, and eventually got to the point where they only had a couple of the generic brands, like Squire and a few Epiphones, and lots of used trade-ins. Not only are the online music sites killing business, but we had the two major music stores move into town, Sam Ash and Guitar Center, who sell stuff at ridiculous discounts and make it up in quantity(like selling 4 microphones for the price of 1). They're basically the Wal-Mart of music instrument stores.
Back on topic, when I can spare the extra cash, I try to go to a FLGS, but I don't live anywhere near one. The closest store for me is nearly 30 miles away, and rarely stocks what I buy. So, if I can get it on amazon for 10% of cover cost(bought most of my 3rd ed books for less than $4), and shipped directly to my door, it's really hard to justify the trip to the store.
Its happening everywhere. When neutral grounds closed in manhattan i was both shocked and heartbroken. So much of my gaming youth happened there. And that store was never empty, but it seems the margins are just getting slimmer and slimmer for FLGSs. A couple other local stores that i used to frequent have also closed in recent memory. There is now no real gaming store that i know of in brooklyn or manhattan besides The complete strategist which i dont really count because that is just a store front, a store without gaming space is not really something i am worried about supporting.Strategist does have a gaming space... It's in the cellar. I believe it's used on Thursday nights for a wargaming group and a paper and dice roleplay on Saturdays. And they were one of the FIRST gaming stores in the buisness.
I think you also don't understand just how much of a premium space is in Manhattan, especially just off of fith avenue to dis as a gaming store on such an idiotic measure. IF you're looking for something especially a game that's been out of print Strategist is the BEST shot you have at getting something. Not to mention a manager and staff which knows and will talk to you about gaming.
If that's not a gaming store, I don't know what is.
STRAT FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SHIFT+1!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if you're looking for a gaming place in brooklyn, look no further than King's Games on(you guessed it) Kings Highway just off the B/Q line(or B82/B7/up the street from the B68). There is a gaming space upstairs. My friend from high school Alex made gazillions winning Magic Tournaments in Japan back in the day and opened up a gaming store. It's quite the local hub, although I preferred the games former location better.
Back on topic, when I can spare the extra cash, I try to go to a FLGS, but I don't live anywhere near one. The closest store for me is nearly 30 miles away, and rarely stocks what I buy. So, if I can get it on amazon for 10% of cover cost(bought most of my 3rd ed books for less than $4), and shipped directly to my door, it's really hard to justify the trip to the store.So not only are your sales not supporting your FLGS, you're buying your books used, which means the company that produced it made no money from your sale at all. Not that I'm condemming you but if people aren't buying new books because of the economy, that's probably why the bulk of gaming publishers as well as gaming stores aren't doing that well.
Dude, read what you quoted me on. I bought my 3rd ed books on Amazon for that cheap. The stores around me carry new 4e stuff, and I don't play 4e. Maybe I should've been more specific, I bought my 3e books in the past 2 years on Amazon. Trust me, WotC has gotten plenty of my money in the past.
I'd love to try and support my FLDGS(Friendly Long-Distance Gaming Store), but I'm having a hard enough time paying my own bills as is. IF I can find an OOP 3e book for chump-change online, then I'm buying it online. That being said, when I do come across a good deal on 3e books at the game store, I get those too. It just so happened that a certain Ravenloft book I couldn't find online for less than $100, I found at my FLDGS for $5. Needless to say, I bought it in a heartbeat.
It didn't work for Neutral Ground. They sold quite a bit of gamer food. The problem they had was they did not have model to pay for the sheer amount of space and staff. The gamer tables did not bring in the receipts neccessary and with all the space dedicated to tables, the shelf space remaining was not sufficient to house a good collection of stuff. Quite frankly the sinking economy was going to doom the place no matter what they tried. Gamer stores especially places like NG depend on thier clientele having a decent amount of cash to burn. That sort of customer is in much shorter supply now.Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
Twas truly unfortunate the place went under. I always thought they should have made more of an attempt to become more of a guitar hero/arcade/bar than a game store, especially after their move.
Unfortunately, in my experience, foodservice is another industry/business with a very low profit margin. A bar OTOH, has very good profit margins.Here's the answer I've been pondering, but haven't been able to pull the cash together to make it work: A combination FLGS/restaurant.
Gamers are notorious snackers, so if the FLGS also happened to sell pizza, burgers, soda, and other snack shop type food, they wouldn't have to bring their own in from other locations, providing another source of income for the FLGS owner. The owner could make money from both game and food sales.
I think the model would work. Anyone want to invest in this idea with me??
Maybe you could have blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the restaurant! :-)
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Unfortunately, I don't visit my FLGS, so I'll never know what fantastic services it has to offer. :-/
Its happening everywhere. When neutral grounds closed in manhattan i was both shocked and heartbroken. So much of my gaming youth happened there. And that store was never empty, but it seems the margins are just getting slimmer and slimmer for FLGSs. A couple other local stores that i used to frequent have also closed in recent memory. There is now no real gaming store that i know of in brooklyn or manhattan besides The complete strategist which i dont really count because that is just a store front, a store without gaming space is not really something i am worried about supporting.Strategist does have a gaming space... It's in the cellar. I believe it's used on Thursday nights for a wargaming group and a paper and dice roleplay on Saturdays. And they were one of the FIRST gaming stores in the business.
Yup, I run an ongoing Pathfinder game there at least once a month and usually it's pretty busy there. I know the NYC D&D Meetup group meets there once a month and there are pretty much card or Miniature Gamers there every weekend.
I only buy incidentals (some miniatures, dice, Paizo Item cards, Flip mats) from the Strat these days since I dont play D&D 4E. I subscribe to the AP's here as well as the RPG line. Not so much because of the discounts but because of the free PDF's. These days if I cant get a RPG product as a PDF as well as hard copy it's useless to me and something I dont even consider buying. I know that my players tend to buy from the Strat so I dont feel nearly as bad.
Also right down the block from The Complete Strategist is Jim Hanley's Universe, which used to be a dedicated comic book store. But since the comic book companies decided to raise their prices to $4 I guess they realized that they had to diversify.
As a result, they've been having huge back issue sales to clear out room in their basement so that they can use it for card tournaments and miniature gaming. They also have other events there getting comic fans into the store to build community (comic book discussions and what not). They have changed the layout of the store to position itself as sort of a pop culture store as opposed to a comic book store. They've pretty much moved the comic racks to the middle section of the store and lined the left side of the store with bookshelves that house their trades.
The store has a much more open and accessable layout now and I think it's attracting a more diverse clientle. I think that the owners saw that with the price increase of comics, they may lose some customers (like me) and needed to give those same people another reason to still come into the store.
In short, RPG stores can learn from this (the Strat has, they didnt have gaming in the store on this scale until recently) adapt or die. Because I game at the Strat now, I'm more likely than not to buy the incidentals from them than I would be from Paizo or another online retailer.