Madoff basically got life. The Enron sentences ranged from five to twenty years. (Ben Glisan, the Enron Treasurer, was my cellie for about a year, he got a five year sentence, reduced from ten, for turning on his co-defendants). IIRC, the Tyco and World Com dudes received some stiff sentences as well.
Now, if you get caught smuggling less than 500 pounds of weed, you'll get less than five years. 500 to 2k pounds will get you five years, over 2k is ten years, fed. Assuming a first offense.
So, Professor, um, no.
Edit: Since I doubt you'd last seven seconds in any real prison,I'd be careful about making statements about what a "slap on the wrist" entails.
I'm in California, man, home to San Quentin, Folsom, Corcoran, and g@#$#~n Pelican Bay. My problem isn't with duration of stay, it's location.
Madoff is in a summer camp compared to the lowest security we have here. He's in a white collar prison, in a white collar cell. The place he's sent to doesn't even compare to where any normal schlub goes.
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Madoff basically got life. The Enron sentences ranged from five to twenty years. (Ben Glisan, the Enron Treasurer, was my cellie for about a year, he got a five year sentence, reduced from ten, for turning on his co-defendants). IIRC, the Tyco and World Com dudes received some stiff sentences as well.
Now, if you get caught smuggling less than 500 pounds of weed, you'll get less than five years. 500 to 2k pounds will get you five years, over 2k is ten years, fed. Assuming a first offense.
So, Professor, um, no.
Edit: Since I doubt you'd last seven seconds in any real prison,I'd be careful about making statements about what a "slap on the wrist" entails.
I'm in California, man, home to San Quentin, Folsom, Corcoran, and g%*~%~n Pelican Bay. My problem isn't with duration of stay, it's location.
Madoff is in a summer camp compared to the lowest security we have here. He's in a white collar prison, in a white collar cell. The place he's sent to doesn't even compare to where any normal schlub goes.
No, he's in a medical facility. Club Fed is dead. Get over it. Club Fed hasn't existed anywhere but movies since the Eighties when they changed Fed law and the Fed pop went from 30k to over 200k. Allenwood, one of the more notorious "Club Feds", is home to a USP now, a prison every bit as bad as San Quentin or the Pelican Bay gladiator school.
And, I hate to break it to you, even California has security levels, just like Texas does, just like the Feds do. And it doesn't matter how much he stole, he wouldn't be stuck in San Quentin. And he'd be eligible for parole in about three years according to Cali penal code. There is no parole for Federal inmates.
Dude is going to die in prison. Period. And, sure, maybe his fellow inmates are on his jock, but that's because he can pay for that. And, hate to break it to you, even if he were in San Quentin, he'd be living good. He has enough money left over (well, his wife does) to pay whomever (safest bet being Jewish would be the Surenos probably) protection and make max store every week.
Eh. Get over it. And please, stick to the gaming stuff, being from California makes you an expert at exactly squat when it comes to doing time.
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You've never been to prison, have you?
Seriously, I was living the life before I was busted, total rock star existence. Lived well above the means of even half the CPAs and attorneys I know. Yeah, it wasn't $20 million mansion in the Hamptons rich, but I could do what I wanted, when I wanted, no sweat.
I live on s@@@ wages now. Less than what a "regular" person makes. I wouldn't trade this (and trust me, my life has sucked major ass lately) to go back to prison at all.
Madoff is in Butner Medical Facility in North Carolina. Which means he's probably dying. The place sucks from what I've heard. He's in a much worse place than if he were flipping burgers at the local McDonalds.
No, I have not. But I do know from news reports that Madoff is a %$&^ celebrity in his prison. I doubt a guy who has fellow inmates asking for autographs is facing the same prison life you did. I think he would much rather be there than have to scrape out an existence as one of us "little people." But then, it might be a moot point anyways. The U.S. Supreme court has apparently ruled that fraud is as American as apple pie.
No, they said he couldn't be convicted of a specific statute that deals with a specific type of crime. Had they said fraud was a-ok, they would have vacated his sentence entirely, not asked the lower court to reexamine the case. So he may get a few years back. Whoopdedoo.
And please tell me you think FCI Englewood is Club Fed. It isn't Angola, but it's far from candyland.
The U.S. Supreme court has apparently ruled that fraud is as American as apple pie.
I wonder if the cause was a structural problem with the legislation or some other issue.
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I really hope we shove this woman back onto the short bus come election day
Why? We used illegals all the time to swim stuff across to pay for their coyote fees. Considering most of them dropped off their load as soon as they got across the river, since there was no way in hell we were going to have them actually transport the stuff on this side, the CBP wasn't going to catch them with the dope.
She may be exaggerating a bit, but CBP is lowballing their side. Which makes sense, since they want to keep their jobs and the current administration has demonstrated no interest in border security.
I really hope we shove this woman back onto the short bus come election day
Why? We used illegals all the time to swim stuff across to pay for their coyote fees. Considering most of them dropped off their load as soon as they got across the river, since there was no way in hell we were going to have them actually transport the stuff on this side, the CBP wasn't going to catch them with the dope.
She may be exaggerating a bit, but CBP is lowballing their side. Which makes sense, since they want to keep their jobs and the current administration has demonstrated no interest in border security.
1. She's declaring an entire group of people drug smugglers, with no data to back it up. And she's doing this because said people can't vote.
2. Whether her statement is true or not, it's another attempt to causally link illegal immigration with drug smuggling, when they're really only partners of convenience.3. It's a scare tactic. Subtle, perhaps, but a scare tactic nonetheless. BE AFRAID OF THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! THEY'RE ALL DRUG RUNNERS! LOCK UP YOUR WOMEN!!!
I'm embarrassed this woman is the governor of my state. My only consolation is she wasn't elected governor.
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I'm just curious BG. You say...
1. She's declaring an entire group of people drug smugglers, with no data to back it up.
2. Whether her statement is true or not,
So, no back up data, but you don't know whether her statement is true or not. Which is it? Is she claiming something is true, without any evidence whatsoever? Or do you just not know what she's talking about? Or am I misreading your statements?
I'm just curious BG. You say...
1. She's declaring an entire group of people drug smugglers, with no data to back it up.2. Whether her statement is true or not,So, no back up data, but you don't know whether her statement is true or not. Which is it? Is she claiming something is true, without any evidence whatsoever? Or do you just not know what she's talking about? Or am I misreading your statements?
I think what he is saying is, even if it is true, it is racist to admit it.
I'm just curious BG. You say...
1. She's declaring an entire group of people drug smugglers, with no data to back it up.2. Whether her statement is true or not,So, no back up data, but you don't know whether her statement is true or not. Which is it? Is she claiming something is true, without any evidence whatsoever? Or do you just not know what she's talking about? Or am I misreading your statements?
I'm saying she has not data to back it up, but even if it is true, it's still being used to imply a causal link between drug smuggling and illegal immigration that doesn't actually exist. I'm not sure it's racist, but it's not particularly rational.
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I'm just curious BG. You say...
1. She's declaring an entire group of people drug smugglers, with no data to back it up.2. Whether her statement is true or not,So, no back up data, but you don't know whether her statement is true or not. Which is it? Is she claiming something is true, without any evidence whatsoever? Or do you just not know what she's talking about? Or am I misreading your statements?I'm saying she has not data to back it up, but even if it is true, it's still being used to imply a causal link between drug smuggling and illegal immigration that doesn't actually exist. I'm not sure it's racist, but it's not particularly rational.
OR, it is being taken way out of context, which the media is known for, and she may in fact have some evidence, which is not in the short article being presented.
Sorry not trying to take her side.
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I'm saying she has not data to back it up, but even if it is true, it's still being used to imply a causal link between drug smuggling and illegal immigration that doesn't actually exist. I'm not sure it's racist, but it's not particularly rational.
It's all good BG. I was just thrown off by your choice of words. I agree, though, that it's crazy to suggest that all illegal immigration has to deal with drug smuggling. Certainly, some of these poor bastards are just trying to improve their lives, and the lives of their families.
OR, it is being taken way out of context, which the media is known for, and she may in fact have some evidence, which is not in the short article being presented.
This may well be the case. Certainly the media does that sort of thing all the time.
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OR, it is being taken way out of context, which the media is known for, and she may in fact have some evidence, which is not in the short article being presented.This may well be the case. Certainly the media does that sort of thing all the time.
Which means it is not worth the argument. :) see we are all good.
It's all good BG. I was just thrown off by your choice of words. I agree, though, that it's crazy to suggest that all illegal immigration has to deal with drug smuggling. Certainly, some of these poor bastards are just trying to improve their lives, and the lives of their families.
The thing I keep coming back to is: As a father, if it were my kids going hungry, I'd violate immigration law to feed them without the slightest hesitation. But for an accident of birth, that could be me. And so I can't help but identify with folks who make that particular choice.
Ah, my bleeding heart. :P
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The thing I keep coming back to is: As a father, if it were my kids going hungry, I'd violate immigration law to feed them without the slightest hesitation. But for an accident of birth, that could be me. And so I can't help but identify with folks who make that particular choice.
Ah, my bleeding heart. :P
It's all good BG. Someone's heart has got to bleed. Can't be mine! It's all withered and decayed.
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It's all good BG. I was just thrown off by your choice of words. I agree, though, that it's crazy to suggest that all illegal immigration has to deal with drug smuggling. Certainly, some of these poor bastards are just trying to improve their lives, and the lives of their families.The thing I keep coming back to is: As a father, if it were my kids going hungry, I'd violate immigration law to feed them without the slightest hesitation. But for an accident of birth, that could be me. And so I can't help but identify with folks who make that particular choice.
Ah, my bleeding heart. :P
I understand where you are coming from. There has to be an equitable solution. Having a reasonable immigration policy along with a intelligent work visa program makes sense. But neither side is willing to let that happen so what we are left with is ignorance stupidity and intolerance.
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I understand where you are coming from. There has to be an equitable solution. Having a reasonable immigration policy along with a intelligent work visa program makes sense. But neither side is willing to let that happen so what we are left with is ignorance stupidity and intolerance.
+1
I think too many politicians are trying to figure out what benefit they can get from the situation to actually do something that works and solves the problem.
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I understand where you are coming from. There has to be an equitable solution. Having a reasonable immigration policy along with a intelligent work visa program makes sense. But neither side is willing to let that happen so what we are left with is ignorance stupidity and intolerance.+1
I think too many politicians are trying to figure out what benefit they can get from the situation to actually do something that works and solves the problem.
And it is two sided, this can not be fixed by America alone. Mexico needs to take a stand and do what is needed to make it easier for their people to have a living wage and not want to come here. Most do not want to stay but you go where the jobs are.
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And it is two sided, this can not be fixed by America alone. Mexico needs to take a stand and do what is needed to make it easier for their people to have a living wage and not want to come here. Most do not want to stay but you go where the jobs are.Too true! This isn't just an American problem.
as has been mentioned before the Mexicans have a similar problem to there south with Guatemala.
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as has been mentioned before the Mexicans have a similar problem to there south with Guatemala.
I also seem to recall, when the wife and I were on our honeymoon, we took a cruise to Mexico. Specifically, the ship stopped at Costa Maya, which was near the border with Belize. I saw some pretty heavy activity by the Mexican army....
And it is two sided, this can not be fixed by America alone. Mexico needs to take a stand and do what is needed to make it easier for their people to have a living wage and not want to come here. Most do not want to stay but you go where the jobs are.Too true! This isn't just an American problem.
I hate to disagree with you AZ but it is just americas problem.
The president of mexico sure as hell isn't going to control his people, why should he? They come over here instead of cluttering up his country so he can say how few poor people that his country has, how few sick how few this that and the other he has and then point to us just like that asshat chavez is doing and pointing to our homeless and outragous unemployment rate and they get to feel all kinds of morally superior. Plus they get cash infuxed into their country from ours because of all the money sent to the families back in mexico.It is americas problem because we are the only ones that care to try and do something about it.
As far as Govenor Brewer all I can say is I hope and pray she not only gets reelected if thats what she wants but I honestly hope she considers a presidentail bid. I know alot of folks would vote for her.
She has more knowledge and guts than any other politician out there.
Madoff basically got life. The Enron sentences ranged from five to twenty years. (Ben Glisan, the Enron Treasurer, was my cellie for about a year, he got a five year sentence, reduced from ten, for turning on his co-defendants). IIRC, the Tyco and World Com dudes received some stiff sentences as well.
Now, if you get caught smuggling less than 500 pounds of weed, you'll get less than five years. 500 to 2k pounds will get you five years, over 2k is ten years, fed. Assuming a first offense.
So, Professor, um, no.
Edit: Since I doubt you'd last seven seconds in any real prison,I'd be careful about making statements about what a "slap on the wrist" entails.
I'm in California, man, home to San Quentin, Folsom, Corcoran, and g!&~+~n Pelican Bay. My problem isn't with duration of stay, it's location.
Madoff is in a summer camp compared to the lowest security we have here. He's in a white collar prison, in a white collar cell. The place he's sent to doesn't even compare to where any normal schlub goes.
No, he's in a medical facility. Club Fed is dead. Get over it. Club Fed hasn't existed anywhere but movies since the Eighties when they changed Fed law and the Fed pop went from 30k to over 200k. Allenwood, one of the more notorious "Club Feds", is home to a USP now, a prison every bit as bad as San Quentin or the Pelican Bay gladiator school.
And, I hate to break it to you, even California has security levels, just like Texas does, just like the Feds do. And it doesn't matter how much he stole, he wouldn't be stuck in San Quentin. And he'd be eligible for parole in about three years according to Cali penal code. There is no parole for Federal inmates.
Dude is going to die in prison. Period. And, sure, maybe his fellow inmates are on his jock, but that's because he can pay for that. And, hate to break it to you, even if he were in San Quentin, he'd be living good. He has enough money left over (well, his wife...
As usual, thank you for this info, Houston. We may not agree on many things politically, but I do appreciate the "real face" you put on this topic. Did NOT know that about Club Fed. Interesting.
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And it is two sided, this can not be fixed by America alone. Mexico needs to take a stand and do what is needed to make it easier for their people to have a living wage and not want to come here. Most do not want to stay but you go where the jobs are.Too true! This isn't just an American problem.I hate to disagree with you AZ but it is just americas problem.
The president of mexico sure as hell isn't going to control his people, why should he? They come over here instead of cluttering up his country so he can say how few poor people that his country has, how few sick how few this that and the other he has and then point to us just like that asshat chavez is doing and pointing to our homeless and outragous unemployment rate and they get to feel all kinds of morally superior. Plus they get cash infuxed into their country from ours because of all the money sent to the families back in mexico.
It is americas problem because we are the only ones that care to try and do something about it.
As far as Govenor Brewer all I can say is I hope and pray she not only gets reelected if thats what she wants but I honestly hope she considers a presidentail bid. I know alot of folks would vote for her.
She has more knowledge and guts than any other politician out there.
That doesn't necessarily have to be a disagreement Steve. I think what CJ and I are trying to say, is that for the problem to be fixed both countries need to work on it.
You're right, though, Felipe Calderon doesn't seem to have much incentive to fix the problem, and even more incentive to play it up against Arizona.
The remittance issue is absolutely huge. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where the Mexican government doesn't promote the maximum amount of migration to the US legal or other wise.
"Migrant remittances represent the second source of legal foreign exchange for Mexico, coming in only after petroleum exports. During the first trimester of 2010, oil income amounted to $11 billion, in comparison with the $6.6 billion in migrant remittances.
However, long-term trends favor migrant remittances as Mexico’s principal source of foreign exchange in the future. According to multiple reports, Mexico only has about nine years of easily recoverable oil resources remaining. On the other hand, a youthful population with few employment prospects coupled with aging trends in the US workforce puts migrant labor in a favorable position as a primary source of dollars."
The remittance issue is absolutely huge. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where the Mexican government doesn't promote the maximum amount of migration to the US legal or other wise.
"Migrant remittances represent the second source of legal foreign exchange for Mexico, coming in only after petroleum exports. During the first trimester of 2010, oil income amounted to $11 billion, in comparison with the $6.6 billion in migrant remittances.
However, long-term trends favor migrant remittances as Mexico’s principal source of foreign exchange in the future. According to multiple reports, Mexico only has about nine years of easily recoverable oil resources remaining. On the other hand, a youthful population with few employment prospects coupled with aging trends in the US workforce puts migrant labor in a favorable position as a primary source of dollars."
Intresting article BT thanks for posting it. Any suggestions on your part to fix it. Mine is to simply call out the national guard and landmine the border, after a few hundred deaths the immigrants will stop trying, no I am not jokeing I want a mile wide landmine zone seperating us and mexico except at official border crossing areas. Harsh yes, uncareing yep you betcha but it will solve the mass flood of illegals coeming to this country and when we deport the ones taht are here they stay deported.
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Interesting article BT thanks for posting it. Any suggestions on your part to fix it. Mine is to simply call out the national guard and landmine the border, after a few hundred deaths the immigrants will stop trying, no I am not joking I want a mile wide landmine zone separating us and Mexico except at official border crossing areas. Harsh yes, uncaring yep you betcha but it will solve the mass flood of illegals coming to this country and when we deport the ones that are here they stay deported.The remittance issue is absolutely huge. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where the Mexican government doesn't promote the maximum amount of migration to the US legal or other wise.
"Migrant remittances represent the second source of legal foreign exchange for Mexico, coming in only after petroleum exports. During the first trimester of 2010, oil income amounted to $11 billion, in comparison with the $6.6 billion in migrant remittances.
However, long-term trends favor migrant remittances as Mexico’s principal source of foreign exchange in the future. According to multiple reports, Mexico only has about nine years of easily recoverable oil resources remaining. On the other hand, a youthful population with few employment prospects coupled with aging trends in the US workforce puts migrant labor in a favorable position as a primary source of dollars."
Intelligent worker visa program.
Intresting article BT thanks for posting it. Any suggestions on your part to fix it. Mine is to simply call out the national guard and landmine the border, after a few hundred deaths the immigrants will stop trying, no I am not jokeing I want a mile wide landmine zone seperating us and mexico except at official border crossing areas. Harsh yes, uncareing yep you betcha but it will solve the mass flood of illegals coeming to this country and when we deport the ones taht are here they stay deported.The remittance issue is absolutely huge. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where the Mexican government doesn't promote the maximum amount of migration to the US legal or other wise.
"Migrant remittances represent the second source of legal foreign exchange for Mexico, coming in only after petroleum exports. During the first trimester of 2010, oil income amounted to $11 billion, in comparison with the $6.6 billion in migrant remittances.
However, long-term trends favor migrant remittances as Mexico’s principal source of foreign exchange in the future. According to multiple reports, Mexico only has about nine years of easily recoverable oil resources remaining. On the other hand, a youthful population with few employment prospects coupled with aging trends in the US workforce puts migrant labor in a favorable position as a primary source of dollars."
I think immigration is a great example of how badly our government and political system have failed. Virtually nothing that either party wants to do helps much, and the other party will invariably blast them as racist or unamerican to make political points.
Every component of a serious fix is hugely unpopular. Businesses need to be held accountable. Government needs to stop incentivizing illegal immigration. The worker visa program needs to be radically reworked. Long term illegals need to be addressed. The boarder needs to be secured or none of this makes a bit of difference.
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What I love is the language,
A "flood" of immigrants
taking away "american" jobs
I don't get borders, I don't get border policy. I don't get jingoism. Maybe I'm a weird idealist. But I just think it's all silly.
If an immigrant illegal or otherwise comes here and gets a job so what. I've never cared about immigration illegal or otherwise and I don't believe in borders. I wouldn't care if 10 trillion mexicans flooded america stealing jobs. I don't get why others do. Why do we even have laws to guard a border from immigration.
Why do Americans have inalienable rights, but if your born in mexico you don't have those rights. I personally think that America is a land of ideals and that ideals don't have borders. The more people coming here and enjoying the benefits of our way of life the better.
Like i said, I just don't get it.
And yes I do understand the problem of undocumented workers benefiting from the system without paying into it, but I don't think that's a border issue, I think that's a taxation issue, not an immigration issue, I don't really think there should even be such a thing as immigration issues. We need to change our draconian tax system to one that would actually work and get everyone paying into the system. Like say the fair tax.
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Intresting article BT thanks for posting it. Any suggestions on your part to fix it. Mine is to simply call out the national guard and landmine the border, after a few hundred deaths the immigrants will stop trying, no I am not jokeing I want a mile wide landmine zone seperating us and mexico except at official border crossing areas. Harsh yes, uncareing yep you betcha but it will solve the mass flood of illegals coeming to this country and when we deport the ones taht are here they stay deported.
Wow, advocating meaningless slaughter to protect silly concepts. Here's a question for you, what is so important to protect that is worth killing them for.
And remember, you aren't advocating this kind of slaughter to prevent terrorism, you're doing it to prevent illegal immigration. So explain to me what they are doing that's so terrible it's worth killing for.
<SNIP>As far as Govenor Brewer all I can say is I hope and pray she not only gets reelected if thats what she wants but I honestly hope she considers a presidentail bid. I know alot of folks would vote for her.</SNIP>
1. In order to be re-elected governor, should would have had to have been elected in the first place. She wasn't.
2. Presidential bid? I only pray we aren't that stupid.
Wow, advocating meaningless slaughter to protect silly concepts. Here's a question for you, what is so important to protect that is worth killing them for.
And remember, you aren't advocating this kind of slaughter to prevent terrorism, you're doing it to prevent illegal immigration. So explain to me what they are doing that's so terrible it's worth killing for.
He's either trolling or delusional; I'm not sure which.
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<SNIP>As far as Govenor Brewer all I can say is I hope and pray she not only gets reelected if thats what she wants but I honestly hope she considers a presidentail bid. I know alot of folks would vote for her.</SNIP>1. In order to be re-elected governor, should would have had to have been elected in the first place. She wasn't.
2. Presidential bid? I only pray we aren't that stupid.
Too late.
What I love is the language,
A "flood" of immigrants
taking away "american" jobs
I don't get borders, I don't get border policy. I don't get jingoism. Maybe I'm a weird idealist. But I just think it's all silly.
If an immigrant illegal or otherwise comes here and gets a job so what. I've never cared about immigration illegal or otherwise and I don't believe in borders. I wouldn't care if 10 trillion mexicans flooded america stealing jobs. I don't get why others do. Why do we even have laws to guard a border from immigration.
Why do Americans have inalienable rights, but if your born in mexico you don't have those rights. I personally think that America is a land of ideals and that ideals don't have borders. The more people coming here and enjoying the benefits of our way of life the better.
Like i said, I just don't get it.
And yes I do understand the problem of undocumented workers benefiting from the system without paying into it, but I don't think that's a border issue, I think that's a taxation issue, not an immigration issue, I don't really think there should even be such a thing as immigration issues. We need to change our draconian tax system to one that would actually work and get everyone paying into the system. Like say the fair tax.
Do you honestly not understand the importance of boarders to a sovereign nation?
Do you honestly not understand the importance of boarders to a sovereign nation?What I love is the language,
A "flood" of immigrants
taking away "american" jobs
I don't get borders, I don't get border policy. I don't get jingoism. Maybe I'm a weird idealist. But I just think it's all silly.
If an immigrant illegal or otherwise comes here and gets a job so what. I've never cared about immigration illegal or otherwise and I don't believe in borders. I wouldn't care if 10 trillion mexicans flooded america stealing jobs. I don't get why others do. Why do we even have laws to guard a border from immigration.
Why do Americans have inalienable rights, but if your born in mexico you don't have those rights. I personally think that America is a land of ideals and that ideals don't have borders. The more people coming here and enjoying the benefits of our way of life the better.
Like i said, I just don't get it.
And yes I do understand the problem of undocumented workers benefiting from the system without paying into it, but I don't think that's a border issue, I think that's a taxation issue, not an immigration issue, I don't really think there should even be such a thing as immigration issues. We need to change our draconian tax system to one that would actually work and get everyone paying into the system. Like say the fair tax.
I do! They help pay the rent. ;-)
Seriously: I think borders are important, but I think trying to tighten control of our borders is futile without the comprehensive package you describe above. We have to attack the incentives; otherwise, securing the border really would require lethal force.
I don't get borders, I don't get border policy.
Cool. Let me know where you live. Next time I'm in the area, I'll storm in, eat your food, sleep on your bed, and clog your toilet. You can feel free to call me Gold***cks.
Do you honestly not understand the importance of boarders to a sovereign nation?What I love is the language,
A "flood" of immigrants
taking away "american" jobs
I don't get borders, I don't get border policy. I don't get jingoism. Maybe I'm a weird idealist. But I just think it's all silly.
If an immigrant illegal or otherwise comes here and gets a job so what. I've never cared about immigration illegal or otherwise and I don't believe in borders. I wouldn't care if 10 trillion mexicans flooded america stealing jobs. I don't get why others do. Why do we even have laws to guard a border from immigration.
Why do Americans have inalienable rights, but if your born in mexico you don't have those rights. I personally think that America is a land of ideals and that ideals don't have borders. The more people coming here and enjoying the benefits of our way of life the better.
Like i said, I just don't get it.
And yes I do understand the problem of undocumented workers benefiting from the system without paying into it, but I don't think that's a border issue, I think that's a taxation issue, not an immigration issue, I don't really think there should even be such a thing as immigration issues. We need to change our draconian tax system to one that would actually work and get everyone paying into the system. Like say the fair tax.
I do! They help pay the rent. ;-)
Seriously: I think borders are important, but I think trying to tighten control of our borders is futile without the comprehensive package you describe above. We have to attack the incentives; otherwise, securing the border really would require lethal force.
Border......dohp! I can't recall what that substitution is called either.
I'm still not clear if last knight is being facetious or not.
Most of our big issues don't have one dimensional answers; we desperately need to learn how to walk and chew gum as a country.
Cool. Let me know where you live. Next time I'm in the area, I'll storm in, eat your food, sleep on your bed, and clog your toilet. You can feel free to call me Gold***cks.
In fairness, most illegal immigrants come here to work. So you'd have to paint the garage and mow the lawn, too. But I agree that the current situation is unacceptable.
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Cool. Let me know where you live. Next time I'm in the area, I'll storm in, eat your food, sleep on your bed, and clog your toilet. You can feel free to call me Gold***cks.In fairness, most illegal immigrants come here to work. So you'd have to paint the garage and mow the lawn, too. But I agree that the current situation is unacceptable.
Don't forget you'd have to pay him below minimum wage and under the table.
Wow, advocating meaningless slaughter to protect silly concepts. Here's a question for you, what is so important to protect that is worth killing them for.
And remember, you aren't advocating this kind of slaughter to prevent terrorism, you're doing it to prevent illegal immigration. So explain to me what they are doing that's so terrible it's worth killing for.
He's either trolling or delusional; I'm not sure which.
I don't think I'm either Bugleyman. You may of course disagree but I want our borders secure and the best way I know is to make it a death threat to try and cross.
The whole reason the illegals come here is to get a better life for their families correct? well then imagine if they knew they would have a chance of dieing trying to get here, walk on a landmine and all of a sudden your wife and 19 kids are without a father. That will deter a good portion of them, the landmines will take out a few more and then finally our borders will be secure.I look at illegal immigration as nothing more than a hostile takeover of this country, useing subversive methods. They must be stopped.
As for the other question of "whats so important to protect that it's worth killing for?" Try our national sovrenty. Our national identity,
I'm 40yrs old and I never had to even see an illeagl in my home town growing up, now they're all over the place. When I was a kid growing up and working in the tobbaco feilds I could make a good wage of 200 a week, it wasn't a whole lot but when your a 12 yr old it was plenty. Now you don't see any white or black people in the feilds cause the mexicans have taken over, you can't blame the farmers because they have to make money so why pay a white boy 5 bucks an hour when a mex will work for a dollar an hour and the mex can't complain cause nobody will listen or care.
Before the racist flag starts getting waved around understand I don't hate them because of their color or where their from but I do HATE them for being in this country illegally and yes I do mean HATE!
Wow, advocating meaningless slaughter to protect silly concepts. Here's a question for you, what is so important to protect that is worth killing them for.
And remember, you aren't advocating this kind of slaughter to prevent terrorism, you're doing it to prevent illegal immigration. So explain to me what they are doing that's so terrible it's worth killing for.
He's either trolling or delusional; I'm not sure which.
I don't think I'm either Bugleyman. You may of course disagree but I want our borders secure and the best way I know is to make it a death threat to try and cross.
The whole reason the illegals come here is to get a better life for their families correct? well then imagine if they knew they would have a chance of dieing trying to get here, walk on a landmine and all of a sudden your wife and 19 kids are without a father. That will deter a good portion of them, the landmines will take out a few more and then finally our borders will be secure.
I look at illegal immigration as nothing more than a hostile takeover of this country, useing subversive methods. They must be stopped.As for the other question of "whats so important to protect that it's worth killing for?" Try our national sovrenty. Our national identity,
I'm 40yrs old and I never had to even see an illeagl in my home town growing up, now they're all over the place. When I was a kid growing up and working in the tobbaco feilds I could make a good wage of 200 a week, it wasn't a whole lot but when your a 12 yr old it was plenty. Now you don't see any white or black people in the feilds cause the mexicans have taken over, you can't blame the farmers because they have to make money so why pay a white boy 5 bucks an hour when a mex will work for a dollar an hour and the mex can't complain cause nobody will listen or care.
Before the racist flag starts getting waved around understand I don't hate them because of their color or where their from but I do HATE them...
Hate solves few things and is rarely, if ever, rational. The racial implications you put into your own statement as qualifiers could be seen as a weak defense against racist thought, especially since you do want to see body parts of a specific race rain from the heavens, but I admit its reaching.
Of course that is never going to happen since for many people it is far to convenient to have a large group of people that you can pay poor wages and cant complain when you treat them like ^*&^. As others have said treat the cause of the problem not the symptoms.
Sometimes the symptoms are the only thing you can treat. First you have to alleviate the symptoms in order to fight the cause.