I decided to go ahead and ask this question, after seeing the thread above about groups divided between heavy role players and the hulk!smashers of the world:
When I joined my tabletop RPG group for the first time, I was worried I wouldn't be any good at improv. (I'm a'ight at acting if you give me a script, and I can write dialog down, but I have trouble making it up off the top of my head). All the same, I really valued the idea of true role playing in our game, even if I turned out to be pretty bad at it.
Fast forward a few months: I'm having a ton of fun, and I'm probably *still* really bad at role playing, but it doesn't seem to come up that much, because we hardly do any. I would have *thought* I'd have next to no interest in combat, combat, combat, but in fact I really like it. So I'm pretty happy, even if we don't get any meaningful gaps between initiative rolls. I'm not going to pressure the group to do more playing-of-role, just so they can watch me awkwardly try to make conversation with (probably equally awkward) NPCs.
Still, I came up with a character I really liked for this game, and I want to explore my character and get to a point where, at the very least, I can combat, combat, combat in a more distinctive style. (My character has through-the-roof charisma, for example, and I DO NOT. I'd probably be more comfortable playing somebody just like me, but I want the challenge of doing things in her voice, instead). I'd like playing this particular sorceress to be memorable. I'd also like to have the feeling that I have *some sort* of relationship to each of my fellow PCs, so that it increases our sense of urgency when we are in battle.
We have been assigned a couple of Role Playing Moments within the module, but these played out more like skill-check tests than character formation/bonding moments. And adding to my existing sense of awkwardness, there is one fella in the group *reaaally* keen to prove that he's The Face of the Party, and no diplomacy check is ever going to go down that he doesn't single-handedly take over. So me and my floundering toward a personality are quickly pre-empted by The Charismatic Paladin Show whenever I *do* try something. (Uh, not that I want to be The Face of the Party. The numbers may say I can, but the role playing skill isn't there yet.)
A couple of the guys have effortlessly created characters with really distinctive codes of conduct/senses of humor - their characters may not converse outside our combat scenarios, but at least they're fun and memorable within them - and I have a pretty good start on a defined character bg. (Though the GM doesn't know it. I told it to the rest of the group in the car after session, but the GH has never asked us anything about where we come from or how we got here; most of us haven't come up with a bg at all - which is okay by me, but makes it hard to say 'this is something we have in common,' or 'this is something we'd be liable to disagree about').
Sometimes we get an imaginary day off, and I get to describe what I've been doing; I try to use the opportunity to at least narrate having spent time getting to know my comrades: say, watching the Wizard prep scrolls, since preparing magic would be so foreign and fascinating to me. Once I wrote a little scene and sent it by email to one of my friends in the group, describing a conversation between our characters immediately after we met. I know him better than some of the others, so it was less intimidating. That's what I've tried so far.
Anyway, my question:
Is there a way to gently inject just a little bit more role playing flavor into our game without bothering those of us who are more comfortable fictionally beating on things? (Which is sometimes me, too, kind of). Without asking the GM - a busy grad student like the rest of us - to generate new material?
Does anyone have any good stories about their own inventive role playing in a talking-lite sort of group? I could use some inspiration!
And are there any questions or prompts I could keep in mind to help me start conversations with NPCs, ferret out intrigue and whatnot? I'm not completely lacking in imagination, but when the pressure's on, I clam up, and I forget all my character prep and don't have the slightest idea how to interact!
I'd suggest looking over at Martin Ralya's Treasure Tables blog (archived now) for ways to encourage table talk. You can also try...
1) Enforce it. Make everyone say something IN ORDER to roll a gather information check, or whatever.
2) Distribute the work. Everyone has to bluff past the guard, don't let the bard wave the whole group along. If the bard is really good, give everyone else a bonus.
If you don't do these things, then players are RIGHT, they can dump social skills, since they are never used. On the other side, would be be okay to not have an armor class, since you don't fight?
3) Make character identities SIMPLE. We're not looking for Hamlet. You want something that is very easy to roleplay, like a guy who is always hungry. Think "COOKIES, YUM YUM YUM".
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3) Make character identities SIMPLE. We're not looking for Hamlet. You want something that is very easy to roleplay, like a guy who is always hungry. Think "COOKIES, YUM YUM YUM".
This this a thousand times this. The most common mistake in novice roleplayers who really want to roleplay is they're so worried about being roleplayers that they overthink the character. If your first few characters end up being "Me with Class abilities" then so be it. That's fine.
The best way to get really good at RP is to play a single, long campaign. Character identity isn't something you write on a page like your stats. It's something you develop over time while playing through the game.
If you're in a combat heavy game, add some panache to your actions. Give it some description beyond "I cast fireball". Come up with signiature spell combinations for your character. Think about what makes some of your favorite characters memorable: It's not the character itself that catches you, it's the one-liners. Maybe after you launch an fireball the sorceress mumbles something along the lines of "I love the smell of napalm in the morning!" or the archer who crits on a suprise round laughs and mutters "Thanks for standing still, mate." (Both of these are blatant video game/movie references, but you get the idea) My signiature spell has been scorching ray for nearly 8 years. "Reach out and Torch someone."
The one liners let others enjoy playing alongside your character. Once people enjoy teaming up with your character, they'll try to engage it more often. The more talk between players, the more material the GM has to work with. The more material the GM gets, the more RP he'll be inspired to do. This is an increasing circle.
Generally, the beginning of campaigns are pretty dull as people get settled into their characters. If I were to try to explain the RP aspects of the character I was building in one of the other threads in the advice boards I'd be at a loss. I've not played him in a game yet so I can't tell you much about him yet. However, if I bust out Grigori the Elven Stormlord I can give you a full mental breakdown and reference exact in game events that drove him to that point. That's the difference. Having actual events that you rolled out makes roleplaying easier. Just give it time.
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How to Role-Play is probably something that there should be more optimisation guides for. LoL.
When you think about your character make a table with three columns.
Column A - Character Name, Race, Class, Physical Description (Who are you, when the GM describes you to the other players, or you stand in front of an NPC what do they see).
Column B - Want: What does your character want? It doesn't have to be complicated: (I want to know who my real parents are. I want power! I want a family. I want vengeance! I want to be more confident. I want GOLD and LOTS OF IT! )Write a list of things your character might want. That simple sentence is something that you can use to shape your character's interactions. Essentially if anything the GM brings up cross-sects with those "wants" then perk up and start asking more questions.
Column C - Aversions: These are the things your character doesn't like. Again keep it simple (I hate spiders! I don't want people to get hurt! Elves frighten me. I DON'T want to know who my father is.)
Now this is the important part - Give this to your GM so that he can start tailoring some stuff in the game towards your character. While the Paladin's face isn't good for everything after all. Especially when someone specifically wants to talk to you.
Finally, don't be afraid to sound silly, or freeze up, or fall out of character. It's just pretend after all, and if people laugh, then you're actually doing a GOOD job. Roleplaying is about entertainment and choice. It's the one part of the game you can't actually do wrong, because no matter what happens the game will keep moving (nobody ever TPK'd while gossiping with the barkeep for information).
Your character's goals will help you find ways to interact with the world. So create some goals.
Also - If the paladin is talking to the mysterious stranger in the corner, you should go talk to the barkeep or waitress about the mysterious stranger. Both you and the Paladin get face time, and learn some valuable information (and when your GM accidentally lets slip more than he meant to you'll drive him nuts as you investigate something unexpected. Good nuts, trust me I love when my players do this).
I'll "roleplay" only to figure out what we're doing, and why, and how to do it better. For the most part, I prefer blowing stuff up. From that point of view, here's some suggestions:
*keep it at least kind of relevant to the overall story. Go schmooze at the bar, but do it because you're looking for information, or recruiting help. Don't do it JUST to see what's there, unless you have reason to believe that the DM has something interesting there -- and DMs will usually find a way to get you there if they're planning a barroom brawl. Otherwise you end up with, "I get drunk. Do I get drunk? Are there girls there? I flirt with the girls."
*Talk in a funny voice. This you can and should do the whole time, even in battle. Put on an accent if you can, preferably one that could possibly lead to hilarious misunderstandings. I once knew a stupid barbarian who couldn't even speak Common, except for "tits" and "good" and "tits good." Surprisingly, he ended up being called "Tits". You don't have to be that ridiculous, but even if you don't play it for laughs, an accent can remind everyone that you're from someplace (or sometime) else.
*If you do a lot of combat with minis, customize your mini. No matter what backstory you have, if your mini is "Elf Scout" you will be "Elf Scout." This is far from sufficient, but it's a lot of fun and a little helpful.
*Use verbal spell components. You might be interested in a discussion of incantations though some of them are longer than a six second round, I think. Either introduce them slowly enough for your DM to learn them or make them very clear, to avoid slowing things down. (This can start trends; I've seen specialized verbal components leak out so whole groups will refer to a certain spell that way. If you can be consistent with in-game lingo, other players will probably start to pick it up and this synchronizes nicely with "talk in funny voices.")
*Buy weird stuff. Collect weird stuff. If you're just starting the game, take any extra gold and buy as much mundane crap as you can carry. Signal whistle. Steel mirror. Folding ladder. Either find a way to use one obscure item for EVERYTHING, or just keep it until you get the perfect opportunity to save the day. This gives your character distinction without you having to come up with dialogue. Ideally, the object can tie into your backstory. Picking up and keeping objects as you go along also can give the DM plot hooks or other nifty things to do, if you're not in a module.
*In games with lots of players, it sometimes helps to play annoying jerks. That way, you have RP justification for talking over people, making loud noises, and otherwise disrupting other conversations with your own RP. If this is what the Paladin's player is doing, one-up him: you have MAGIC. If it's just the player himself who's overbearing, there's less you can do in character.
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Ten years from now, what are you going to remember? How much damage you dealt? How many monsters failed their saves against you? Or the story and adventure and rapport that grew between you and your party-mates. (Yeah,its a daunting task with what you've described of the Paladin, but odds are decent he may follow your lead if you took the step and went all out)
Definitely truth. Also, if the paladin wants to have limelight, share it. Play off his actions and team up to do a little good cop, bad cop and the like. You'll find it ends with your GM happier. Happier GMs give better circumstance modifiers.
Hell, I've let people do incredibly epic things in both roleplaying and combat because they made it sound so incredibly COOL. Normally they'd have never had a chance. A +5 to a check from the GM for making him laugh or even just a doubletake is sometimes all it takes.
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Here's something else to consider.
At least once a session disagree with the party (disagreeing with a paladin is easy, but disagreeing with the majority is a bit more difficult). It doesn't have to be over something big (and it's probably better at first if it isn't).
GM: "The paths lead to the left and right. To the left you can hear the sounds of Goblins laughing, to the right it's warm as if there was the heat of a furnace."
Other party members: "Let's go a goblin killing."
You: "Wait! Those goblins haven't realised we're here, and I'm wondering what that heat is. Perhaps it's a fire elemental, I'd rather not expend our resources on goblins if there's something more dangerous around first. My spells don't last all day you know."
As long as you can back up your choice then the discussion that follows (if held mostly in character) is all good role play!
Whether you go left or right isn't important, its that you reached an in-character decision that is.
When I first started playing with my group was extremely roleplay light. There was this sense that there had been these massively intricate roleplay heavy campaigns prior to my arrival, and they were just in hack and slash mode.
Eventually as I got used to the group, and knowing the people well (we had all been long time friends or friends of friends) i realized I wanted a little more in character play. So, I started staying in character. You would be surprised what an example can do if the players are (as you seem to feel they are) good roleplayers themselves.
Some things i did to start injecting roleplay into the game was stay in character in combat. I used 'magic words' when casting spells. Foreign languages work great here, [if you are not multilingual just grab a phrasebook]. I would shout curses, insults or quips at my enemies, encouragement to my allies. Dont just say 'i cast magic missile on that goblin'. Describe it. 'I conjure the arcane energies into a bolt of energy [magic words here with some kind of hand motions] and send it hurtling for the scrawny looking greenskin on the left'. Develop favorite insults or sayings for your character to use in the heat of battle. Being descriptive and in character will likely eventually rub off on your party mates.
Also, when in those situations that devolve into just a series of skill checks. Start talking. Ask questions of the npc. Ask them how they are, how the family is, whatever. Just start a conversation with the npc before the dice get thrown.
Next time everyone's doing character creation, go through the process of character generation from Minimus
(Full disclaimer - I wrote Minimus. I get a trickle of revenue from it.)
Minimus is a light enough rules system that it can easily be layered on to other d20 based games. The character generation process is excellent for coming up with group back stories that everyone cares about.
Beyond that - try to put incentives on roleplaying. Minimus has a few, but there are plenty of others. (One of my favorites is in Minimus - the XP reward for describing failures.)
I'd suggest looking over at Martin Ralya's Treasure Tables blog (archived now) for ways to encourage table talk.
Thanks! I've had trouble finding RP blogs that were both tabletop and player-focused. I want to know about GM stuff, too, in the long run, in case I ever have to start my own group in order to stay part of the game, but right now I mostly need help being a good player.
1) Enforce it. Make everyone say something IN ORDER to roll a gather information check, or whatever.
2) Distribute the work. Everyone has to bluff past the guard, don't let the bard wave the whole group along. If the bard is really good, give everyone else a bonus.
If you don't do these things, then players are RIGHT, they can dump social skills, since they are never used. On the other side, would be be okay to not have an armor class, since you don't fight?
I'm not the GM, so I don't have the authority to enforce anything, but I like the idea of encouraging situations where each and every one of us has to pass a given test, rather than letting one character do it all.
3) Make character identities SIMPLE. We're not looking for Hamlet. You want something that is very easy to roleplay, like a guy who is always hungry. Think "COOKIES, YUM YUM YUM".
That's hilarious, and just thinking about my current character in terms of having ordinary bodily functions is kind of enlightening, actually. I've been trying to think of dramatic qualities, but even the most dramatic individual needs to eat! (Actually, we did just find some giant barrels of salt pork on our last mission. Me and the Wise Cleric were all over that. Pork for everyone!) I've been thinking of a super-mysterious Oracle as my next character, at some point down the line, but 'super-mysterious Oracle who is constantly hungry' would be way more fun.
If your first few characters end up being "Me with Class abilities" then so be it. That's fine.
This takes a lot of the pressure off. So far, aside from a few distinctive background details, I'm mostly playing a very tall version of an existing side of myself. If that counts as role playing for a start, I can dig it.
If you're in a combat heavy game, add some panache to your actions. Give it some description beyond "I cast fireball". Come up with signiature spell combinations for your character. Think about what makes some of your favorite characters memorable: It's not the character itself that catches you, it's the one-liners. Maybe after you launch an fireball the sorceress mumbles something along the lines of "I love the smell of napalm in the morning!" or the archer who crits on a suprise round laughs and mutters "Thanks for standing still, mate." (Both of these are blatant video game/movie references, but you get the idea) My signiature spell has been scorching ray for nearly 8 years. "Reach out and Torch someone."
Heeheehee.
Generally, the beginning of campaigns are pretty dull as people get settled into their characters.
This is also good to know. I'm willing to let things develop organically, especially if that's somewhat to be expected.
How to Role-Play is probably something that there should be more optimisation guides for. LoL.
I WOULD READ THAT. *hint, hint*
When you think about your character make a table with three columns.
Column A - Character Name, Race, Class, Physical Description (Who are you, when the GM describes you to the other players, or you stand in front of an NPC what do they see).
Column B - Want: What does your character want? It doesn't have to be complicated: (I want to know who my real parents are. I want power! I want a family. I want vengeance! I want to be more confident. I want GOLD and LOTS OF IT! )Write a list of things your character might want. That simple sentence is something that you can use to shape your character's interactions. Essentially if anything the GM brings up cross-sects with those "wants" then perk up and start asking more questions.
Column C - Aversions: These are the things your character doesn't like. Again keep it simple (I hate spiders! I don't want people to get hurt! Elves frighten me. I DON'T want to know who my father is.)
I have a good start on A and B (there's even a series of drawings... with outfits...) but I could really use more of C, so I'm glad you brought that up. I think I've been so preoccupied with what I, as a player, do or don't want to happen (uh, mainly to be blamed for a TPK or something), that I hadn't been thinking much about what my character expects or dreads...
Finally, don't be afraid to sound silly, or freeze up, or fall out of character. It's just pretend after all, and if people laugh, then you're actually doing a GOOD job. Roleplaying is about entertainment and choice. It's the one part of the game you can't actually do wrong, because no matter what happens the game will keep moving (nobody ever TPK'd while gossiping with the barkeep for information).
Excellent.
*Talk in a funny voice. This you can and should do the whole time, even in battle. Put on an accent if you can, preferably one that could possibly lead to hilarious misunderstandings. I once knew a stupid barbarian who couldn't even speak Common, except for "t!@%" and "good" and "t!@% good." Surprisingly, he ended up being called "t!@%". You don't have to be that ridiculous, but even if you don't play it for laughs, an accent can remind everyone that you're from someplace (or sometime) else.
This may not mean anything to anyone, but I really wanted my current character to have Alice Tinker's accent from The Vicar of Dibley. I steeped myself in Vicar of Dibley for eight hours to see if I could absorb it, but in the end I couldn't make it consistent unless I were actually saying Alice's lines. If I can achieve a character with a funny accent, I will have arrived.
*Use verbal spell components. You might be interested in a discussion of incantations though some of them are longer than a six second round, I think. Either introduce them slowly enough for your DM to learn them or make them very clear, to avoid slowing things down. (This can start trends; I've seen specialized verbal components leak out so whole groups will refer to a certain spell that way. If you can be consistent with in-game lingo, other players will probably start to pick it up and this synchronizes nicely with "talk in funny voices.")
I really want to check out that thread now. Truth? I assigned a bunch of phonically appealing phrases to my spells in a made-up language only my character understands, but I haven't actually used them, because when the GM found out I was making up verbal components to my spells, he couldn't process it, he thought it was so weird! Maybe rhyming poems would go over better? LOL. My character also makes up her own names for spells she knows. She didn't have any training in magic, after all, so she just describes what the spell seems like to her. She doesn't know what other spellcasters would call it. Like, she likes to say that she's going to 'butter' something when she casts Grease.
*Buy weird stuff. Collect weird stuff. If you're just starting the game, take any extra gold and buy as much mundane crap as you can carry. Signal whistle. Steel mirror. Folding ladder. Either find a way to use one obscure item for EVERYTHING, or just keep it until you get the perfect opportunity to save the day. This gives your character distinction without you having to come up with dialogue. Ideally, the object can tie into your backstory. Picking up and keeping objects as you go along also can give the DM plot hooks or other nifty things to do, if you're not in a module.
Man, I want so much weird stuff! I haven't gotten all the way through the GM chapter of magic items yet, but I feel like I'd much rather have weird stuff than the 'Big 6' folks were discussing in another thread the other day. Sadly, I rolled 20gp as my starting wealth, and our meager lootings are currently tied up in a consignment shop. MONEYYY! I need money!!!
Also, if the paladin wants to have limelight, share it. Play off his actions and team up to do a little good cop, bad cop and the like. You'll find it ends with your GM happier. Happier GMs give better circumstance modifiers.
I wonder if he'd be up for a little good cop/bad cop? I also wonder which one he'd want to be? Wouldn't really matter, anyway! I'm probably the nicer and more innocent character, but my intimidation modifier is not to be trifled with. (And I'm trying to give my character - a simple farm girl by upbringing - an evolving sense of her capacity to dominate others with her powers...)
Hell, I've let people do incredibly epic things in both roleplaying and combat because they made it sound so incredibly COOL. Normally they'd have never had a chance. A +5 to a check from the GM for making him laugh or even just a doubletake is sometimes all it takes.
Those sound like some good stories!
I used 'magic words' when casting spells. Foreign languages work great here, [if you are not multilingual just grab a phrasebook].
Oh man, I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes this idea! I actually came up with verbal components for about thirty spells - just made up-words I liked. My GM totally thought it was creepy. (What's creepy about 'hundulum maydar' or 'viz ortalis untergammadon'?) But I might go ahead and use them, anyway. He can deal. :o)
I would shout curses, insults or quips at my enemies, encouragement to my allies. Dont just say 'i cast magic missile on that goblin'. Describe it. 'I conjure the arcane energies into a bolt of energy [magic words here with some kind of hand motions] and send it hurtling for the scrawny looking greenskin on the left'. Develop favorite insults or sayings for your character to use in the heat of battle. Being descriptive and in character will likely eventually rub off on your party mates.
Improving my use of descriptions is about to become my primary, immediate goal. I think it might make a big difference in the amount of fun I have, and narration seems a bit lower pressure for me than dialog so far.
Ask questions of the npc. Ask them how they are, how the family is, whatever. Just start a conversation with the npc before the dice get thrown.
Asking questions! That should be so obvious, but it honestly had not occurred to me! Well, unless the topic of the scene is asking a source questions. But when bluffing or diplomatizing, I tend to get caught up thinking about whether I'm giving the right *answers.* All thought of asking questions and shifting the locus of attention onto the NPC's responses completely escapes me. I'm definitely going to work on this.
Next time everyone's doing character creation, go through the process of character generation from Minimus
(Full disclaimer - I wrote Minimus. I get a trickle of revenue from it.)
Minimus is a light enough rules system that it can easily be layered on to other d20 based games. The character generation process is excellent for coming up with group back stories that everyone cares about.
Beyond that - try to put incentives on roleplaying. Minimus has a few, but there are plenty of others. (One of my favorites is in Minimus - the XP reward for describing failures.)
Thanks a lot! I'm definitely going to work on this!
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It all comes down to this: Forcing roleplaying will tie you up harder then just not worrying about it. You've been given some pretty great suggestions so far about when to interject but in reality you're just going to come across a moment where your entire character will click into place.
I usually have no clue how I'm going to play a character for at least 3 long sessions. I just took a fighter I was playing the other day and multiclassed into ranger. Why? Because I was able to tame a "wild" animal with handle animal, and I had been using survival all over the place as I was the only one with a decent survival. Suddenly my character got far more interesting than "I have daddy's broadsword and I cut things". He found his schtick. (Though being nigh unkillable when he got jumped solo by a trio of bandits helped.)
It took me nearly 5 levels to figure out how my stormlord would play out, and I had to /switch gods/ on that character and completely lose my divine ranks, sacrifice three feats, and lose a couple levels to really figure out what I wanted to do. In the end, it was the most memorable character I've ever played. (That campaign went to 15 and ran for two years.)
Focus less on your character and more on the world you're in. Engage the GM. Your character will evolve. Your GM is spending time creating a world. Dive in with both feet and he'll appreciate that you're appreciating his work. Everyone will be better for it, and I absolutely guaruntee that you will have a far more entertaining character that you feel works better than if you just made "The halfling dancer" and played up "I'm dancing because it's what I do".