|
My friend is making a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword. He thinks it will only cost him 4335; +1 2,000g, Flaming 2,000g, MWK 300g and the Sword 35g.
I told him it would cost a total of 8,335 gold because +1 + Flaming = +2, +2 = 8,000 gold pieces.
The only problem is, no where in the book that I could see mentioned this. Is this a rule 3.5 players just assumed? He is new to D&D/Pathfinder. Please give me the page number where I can find this info please!
Table 15-8, p.468.
My friend is making a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword. He thinks it will only cost him 4335; +1 2,000g, Flaming 2,000g, MWK 300g and the Sword 35g.
I told him it would cost a total of 8,335 gold because +1 + Flaming = +2, +2 = 8,000 gold pieces.
The only problem is, no where in the book that I could see mentioned this. Is this a rule 3.5 players just assumed? He is new to D&D/Pathfinder. Please give me the page number where I can find this info please!
Pge 467 bottom of the page
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count
as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item,
but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted).
Seems clear enough to me.
If he can't understand plain English in that spot, have you checked his reading comprehension for Rule 0?
That isn't really clear though. I've pointed it out to him and it is not is "special people" form. I need it to say a +1 enchanment (value +1) plus a Flaming weapon ability (a +1 value) equals a +2 Value.
It is clear enough. What other special abilities could the book be talking about? He is being willfully obtuse at this point. Tell him the rest of the world plays with those rules, unless the rest of the world is wrong he will have too also unless, he can prove otherwise. Invite him here if you like.
PS: Since he is your friend you might want to say it nicer than I did.
Apart from pointing out to him that if he was right there'd be no need for the table to extend beyond +1, you could show him table 15-29 p.550, where it says the formula:
Weapon bonus (enhancement) Bonus squared x 2,000 gp +1 longsword.
+2 * 2,000gp = 8,000gp.
"Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item" seems pretty clear, to me.
Tables 15-8 and 15-9 on pages 468 and 469 respectively should convey all of the information you need. 15-8 tells you the prices for different Weapon Bonuses, while 15-9 tells you the "Base Price Modifier" for each Special Ability. You'll notice that the Base Price Modifier has a footnote at the bottom of table 15-9, which reads "Add to enchantment bonus on Table 15-8 to determine total market price."
See that word "add?"
+1 Bonus + Flaming Burst
= +1 + +1
= +2
Done.
|
My friend is making a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword. He thinks it will only cost him 4335; +1 2,000g, Flaming 2,000g, MWK 300g and the Sword 35g.
I told him it would cost a total of 8,335 gold because +1 + Flaming = +2, +2 = 8,000 gold pieces.
The only problem is, no where in the book that I could see mentioned this. Is this a rule 3.5 players just assumed? He is new to D&D/Pathfinder. Please give me the page number where I can find this info please!
The important part in bold. The *REALLY* important part in bold and italics.
Rule 0 > allI agree with the others here, the clause on special items under the table seems pretty clear to me. But, if there is any ambiguity to if the two costs are cumulative or additive, the final ruling would fall to the GM.
I agree pulling out the "I'm the GM and I say so" card is kinduva dick move, but when players get belligerent and dig their heels in, sometimes it's the only move you have left.
My friend is making a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword. He thinks it will only cost him 4335; +1 2,000g, Flaming 2,000g, MWK 300g and the Sword 35g.
I told him it would cost a total of 8,335 gold because +1 + Flaming = +2, +2 = 8,000 gold pieces.
The only problem is, no where in the book that I could see mentioned this. Is this a rule 3.5 players just assumed? He is new to D&D/Pathfinder. Please give me the page number where I can find this info please!
The important part in bold. The *REALLY* important part in bold and italics.
Rule 0 > allI agree with the others here, the clause on special items under the table seems pretty clear to me. But, if there is any ambiguity to if the two costs are cumulative or additive, the final ruling would fall to the GM.
I agree pulling out the "I'm the GM and I say so" card is kinduva dick move, but when players get belligerent and dig their heels in, sometimes it's the only move you have left.
I have to agree. Tell him you will gladly rescind the rule when he can convince the majority of posters here to agree with him. ;)
That isn't really clear though. I've pointed it out to him and it is not is "special people" form. I need it to say a +1 enchanment (value +1) plus a Flaming weapon ability (a +1 value) equals a +2 Value.
Just point out the table on page 468, and how it says 'A weapon can't have an enhancement bonus higher than +5, use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in.'
There are no +10 abilities, and you must have at least a +1 enhancement on the weapon to have special abilities. That, combined with the above information should be enough.
It used to be you could 'reverse engineer' some of the weapons or armor, but it looks like PF did a good job making the items unique.
Still, you can see the breakdown on the Flame Tongue:
A +1 flaming burst longsword with a 1/day fiery ray attack (equivalent in range and power to a minimum level scorching ray spell (Level 2, Caster Level 3). 20,715
+1 (enhancement), +2 flaming burst= +3 = 18,000 gp
Masterwork Longsword = 315 gp
Scorching Ray, CL 3, 2nd Level Spell = Spell Level (2) x Caster Level (3) x 2000 (use activated, page 550) / 5 (5 divided by 1 use per day, page 550) = 2,400
All of that equals 20,715.
Um, you said he was MAKING the bastard sword? As in his character is crafting it? That would cost half the magic value plus the masterwork.
Which would be 4,335 gp. And four days, etc. But that's half the market value of 8,000 plus the masterwork 335.
In which case, you're both right. Hurrah!
Um, you said he was MAKING the bastard sword? As in his character is crafting it? That would cost half the magic value plus the masterwork.
Which would be 4,335 gp. And four days, etc. But that's half the market value of 8,000 plus the masterwork 335.
In which case, you're both right. Hurrah!
I completely missed the "making" part. Is he making the physical sword or is he doing the enhancements also?
Was that the math your friend gave you or do you just assume it is the math he used? After all, he IS right about how much it will cost for him to MAKE it as you said. To make an item it takes half of the market price to craft, plus the masterwork base item. So you are correct on the market value, he is right on the crafting value, but if that is the real math he was attempting then the other condescending posters were right and you should hit him in the nose with a rolled up news paper.
Um, you said he was MAKING the bastard sword? As in his character is crafting it? That would cost half the magic value plus the masterwork.
Which would be 4,335 gp. And four days, etc. But that's half the market value of 8,000 plus the masterwork 335.
In which case, you're both right. Hurrah!
Actually, you're half right.
It takes 1 day for every 1,000 GP of the item's BASE price. The base price is the price listed for all the items in the book. It further says that materils for most magic items cost 1/2 of the listed base price, further reinforcing that the sale price = base price.
So, 35gp for the sword + 300 for the masterwork + 4,000 for the materials price of the enchantment = 4,435 GP. Since the final sword will cost 8,335 GP, the time to make this weapon is actually 9 days (although some DMs give a pass on the item price and only charge per 1,000 gp of the enchanting price, which would make it 8 days).
Um, you said he was MAKING the bastard sword? As in his character is crafting it? That would cost half the magic value plus the masterwork.
Which would be 4,335 gp. And four days, etc. But that's half the market value of 8,000 plus the masterwork 335.
In which case, you're both right. Hurrah!
Actually, you're half right.
It takes 1 day for every 1,000 GP of the item's BASE price. The base price is the price listed for all the items in the book. It further says that materils for most magic items cost 1/2 of the listed base price, further reinforcing that the sale price = base price.
So, 35gp for the sword + 300 for the masterwork + 4,000 for the materials price of the enchantment = 4,435 GP. Since the final sword will cost 8,335 GP, the time to make this weapon is actually 9 days (although some DMs give a pass on the item price and only charge per 1,000 gp of the enchanting price, which would make it 8 days).
Giving a pass on the base item price is a good idea. Otherwise wizards guilds would start acting like movie studio book keepers and do creative accounting where they could pay people to take a cloak and thus make an item's cost cheaper in terms of time.
Actually, you're half right.
It takes 1 day for every 1,000 GP of the item's BASE price. The base price is the price listed for all the items in the book. It further says that materils for most magic items cost 1/2 of the listed base price, further reinforcing that the sale price = base price.
So, 35gp for the sword + 300 for the masterwork + 4,000 for the materials price of the enchantment = 4,435 GP. Since the final sword will cost 8,335 GP, the time to make this weapon is actually 9 days (although some DMs give a pass on the item price and only charge per 1,000 gp of the enchanting price, which would make it 8 days).
I've never actually had a character make a magic item, nor have had a character in a game make one, so I apologize for that particular miscalculation. We don't want anyone getting killed because of a half-made sword.
It's shoddy workmanship like that which keeps the planned obsolescence magic item industry flourishing. Back in my day, when you got a magic item, you kept it until somebody pried it out of your cold, dead, non-resurrectable fingers. Nowadays kids just buy a magic sword and then throw it away a few levels later. It's a shame really. They'll never know what they're missing.
The state of the worlds... tsk tsk.
Of course, if he's actually crafting the sword, too, it takes a while longer (around a week or so more, as best I can guess, at minimum successes), but then the raw material cost for the sword/masterwork part is only a third...ugh. My head hurts.
|
My friend is making a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword. He thinks it will only cost him 4335; +1 2,000g, Flaming 2,000g, MWK 300g and the Sword 35g.
I told him it would cost a total of 8,335 gold because +1 + Flaming = +2, +2 = 8,000 gold pieces.
The only problem is, no where in the book that I could see mentioned this. Is this a rule 3.5 players just assumed? He is new to D&D/Pathfinder. Please give me the page number where I can find this info please!
Pge 467 bottom of the page
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count
as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item,
but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted).
I hate to say it, but THIS is black and white. There is nothing misleading about the above rule. If your player can't get that through his head, then he doesn't need a +1 flaming sword. That'd be my response to him. I've had plenty of players over the years try and pull end arounds. Most of them seem to do it to be obtuse. That's just my opinion.
Um, you said he was MAKING the bastard sword? As in his character is crafting it? That would cost half the magic value plus the masterwork.
Which would be 4,335 gp. And four days, etc. But that's half the market value of 8,000 plus the masterwork 335.
In which case, you're both right. Hurrah!
+1