|
According tour groups regular DM, you can play in a scenario that is either one higher or one lower. For example if I am 4th level I can play in not only in tier 4-5 but in at 1-2 or a 6-7. (Or however the level breakdown is).
If this is true, can a 5th level character play is a scenario that starts at level 7. For example, Echoes of Everwar I: The Prisoner of Skull Hill starts at tier 7-8. Can a 5ht level character play in that?
The problem we are having is that some of us are 7th level and higher, but we have a new player in the group who only has a 5th level character.
|
What you would need to do first is figure out the average party level.
If you have four level 7s and one level 5 your APL is a 6 (4x7+5/5=6.6) So that character would be able to fit a tier 6-7.
If you have 6 players use the formula above , but add one to the end result.
for example four level 7, one level 6 and one level 5.(4x7+6+5/6)+1=7.5 APL is a 7-8 range.
|
|
Makes perfect sense. Thanks.
Now let me get really obnoxious, but this is a problem we may face soon.
We have another new player who just made a level 1 wizard. How does he fit into the scenario? If we have 4 level 7s, one level 5, and a level 1 that averages into a level 5.67. (If my math is right) Does that mean they can go "up" to a tier 7-8?
|
|
in reality, you want to have your higher level players role up new characters and play with him until he can catch up.
The tier you are suggesting is actually 5-6, bit even then it's too wacked out and the rest of the party is just acting like tanks for the 1st level PC.
In the group that we have put together (it now really a small club, we can actually run two tables), we have all created "b" team PCs to help out with low level PCs.
I can completely understand why a player might not to want to do that, but it really is the best way. Everyone should contribute when they play and power leveling a 1st level PC really cheats that player of being all that he can be, (even if he doesn't mind.)
Give the PFS guide a look over, I'm sure that you can find a way to make this work.
|
|
I may not have been clear with my original query.
In my example above I said that Echoes of Everwar 1 started at tier 7-8. Can the lower level character play up to that since the adventure itself is designed for the higher level characters?
I wouldn't do that, as per my original point. If he's itching to play though he can play a Pre-gen or that level though.
|
|
We recommend the same for all of our local players. Once your primary PC hits 4th, you should have a 1st level ready to go. Some of our players have a 6th level, 3rd level and 1st level character ready to go. We are in no rush to retire characters, so playing a few lower level ones for the benefit of new players is good.
We had a lower level PC play in a slightly higher Tier recently. The average party level allowed it and the play, play, play rule required he play at this table or none at all. It was a tough scenario and he spent most of his time staying out of harms way. It really wouldn't be much fun for them as a 1st level, not to mention they will have a hard time surviving and really won't be able to participate much.
|
According tour groups regular DM, you can play in a scenario that is either one higher or one lower. For example if I am 4th level I can play in not only in tier 4-5 but in at 1-2 or a 6-7. (Or however the level breakdown is).
I think this is an instance where your DM may be right by circumstance, not by an actual understanding of the rules.
Everything Herald said is dead on, it all boils down to your party's APL. If you're 4th level, and you're playing with four other level 4 friends (for a total of 5 players, though the APL calculation is the same for 4 or 5 players), your APL is calculated as follows:
Four Level 5 Characters = Total Character Level of 20.
Total of 20 Character Levels over 4 characters = Average Party Level 4.
Your group may only play in the appropriate sub-tier for an APL 4 party (for a level 1-7 adventure this would be Sub-Tier 3-4). Your party may not play up or down as your first question had indicated.
Now, if you're level 4 and playing with five other level 4 friends, the APL calculation is increased by +1 due to the party size (since a party size of 6 always adds +1 to your APL. In this instance, since you're in the dead zone between sub-tiers (for a level 1-7 adventure the sub-tiers are 3-4 and 6-7) you may chose to play up a level to the sub-tier 6-7 or down a level to the sub-tier 3-4. This (along with another example I'll give in a second) is the only way you can "play up" or "play down". You may not play the 1-2 sub-tier (not that you'd want to anyway).
Without doing an extensive search here's Josh's Post regarding playing up Tiers. You may only ever play "up" one sub-tier, even under the play, play, play rule. So let's do the math again and say your group of 5 level 4's adds in a level 1. To calculate your APL we do the following.
Five level 5 characters and one level 1 character = 21 Total Character Levels.
Total of 21 Character Levels over 6 characters = Average Party Level 3.5 which we round (always appropriately up or down) to 4.
Since you're talking a group of 6 you add in the +1 again for an APL of 5.
As you'll notice you are STILL APL 5. However, since you now have a level 1 in your party, should you want to play with him, you will either need to roll up new characters or you may play at sub-tier 3-4 only. You may not play at sub-tier 6-7 because at most you are only ever allowed to play "up" one sub-tier. This is fine and dandy until you're all level 5 and he's level 2 (which turns into an APL = 6). At this point you're all required to play in the Sub-tier 6-7 range, and your friend cannot play with you as he can only "play up" to sub-tier 3-4.
If this is true, can a 5th level character play is a scenario that starts at level 7. For example, Echoes of Everwar I: The Prisoner of Skull Hill starts at tier 7-8. Can a 5ht level character play in that?
You cannot ever do this. This is why there are bridging modules that fill the 5-9 gap.
[Edit]Clarified that I'm usually talking "Sub-Tiers" not "Tiers".
|
|
By the same token, a level 8 character also may not play in any of the "Devil We Know" scenarios because none of those exist at level 8.
This is actually a bad example because Joshua has given a special dispensation for people who played the first parts in the series and are now higher level. It allows them to complete the series no matter what level they are.
From the PFS guide:
Most of these Tiers have sub-Tiers. They are:Tier 1–5: 1–2 and 4–5
Tier 1–7: 1–2, 3–4, and 6–7
Tier 5–9: 5–6 and 8–9
Tier 7–11: 7–8 and 10–11
Tier 12: no sub-TiersTiers are a level restriction for play. If a character is level
1, he must always try to play in a Tier 1–2 sub-Tier whenever
possible. Rarely, PCs may be allowed to play “up” a Tier if
they’re lower level than all of the other players. For example,
Bob goes to Paizo Con and finds himself the only level 1 PC
at a full table of level 4 PCs in a Tier 1–5 scenario. Normally
Bob wouldn’t be able to play “up” but he can in this instance
because it’s the only option for him to play. Players who play
“up” need to realize that if they choose to do so, it comes with
significantly increased risks. A player may always refuse to
play “up” if that’s his only option. A player may only ever
play “up” one step—so in Bob’s case, he can play “up” to sub-
Tier 4–5, but may not play “up” to sub-Tier 6–7—though
these instances should be rare.
Also, playing down is only allowed if the APL for the table is a number in between the sub-tiers of a scenario, such as having an APL of 3 and a Tier 1-5 scenario is being run. The group can choose to play either sub-tier 1-2 or 4-5. As Josh has stated in other threads, individually a player can only play up one sub-tier and never play down.
As for your question, Orcsmasher, I think that will count as playing up the allowed one sub-tier for a 5th level character.
Also,
Total of 21 Character Levels over 6 characters = Average Party Level 3.5 which we round (always appropriately up or down) to 4.
No, the Guide says to always round up to get APL.
|
|
No, the Guide says to always round up to get APL.Guide says to round to nearest whole number.
I know for a fact it's this because our group (incorrectly) always rounded down (per standard Pathfinder rules) to determine our APL until it was pointed out that the guide says round to the nearest whole number.
Yeah, as many times as I have read through the Guide, I somehow missed that little sentence that talking about rounding. All I ever saw were the examples and all of them round up. Maybe version 2.3 should include an example of rounding down also in case others are making the same mistake I made.
"Step 1--Determine APL" on page 397 of the Core Rulebook (from whence the rule came) also says to round to the nearest whole number.