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Entangled
The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) or lose the spell.
Grapple
Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.
My question is, if a character has the Entangled condition, and is tethered by an opposing force, would a Grapple attempt automatically succeed?
My thought is yes, as by being tethered the entangled character's movement is entirely prevented, which is essentially immobilized.
However that seems a but extreme to me. The Entangled spell just got REAL nasty, as did nets! I could go either way on this.
The answer is yes, as per RAW. It really isn't as bad as you might think. A person still provokes by grappling someone and you don't lose your dex.
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Provoking isn't nearly as big an issue now. Provoking does not disrupt the attempt just adds to the DC to succeed. With an auto-success I don't care if I do provoke (ummm unless that one hit manages to kill me)
Once Grappled the defender has VERY little chance of ever getting free vs the auto-success.
Now don't get me wrong... I came up with this problem as I was exploring possible options for the bad guy.
Now here is where it gets tricky...
BBEG has Entangled the Fighter. This triggers a free Grapple check. Auto-success even if the provoke does damage to the BBEG.
Fighter's turn and he attempts to break the Grapple... does the BBEG get an auto-success, since the fighter now has both Grappled and Entangled conditions?
BBEG's turn does he auto-pin the fighter? On his following turn can he auto-damage the fighter?
And one more question related to this... the BBEG has reach... does he HAVE to pull the fighter adjacent or can he keep the fight at the end of his reach?
What?? I don't think so. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated does not equate to being grappled. It includes being paralysed, or unable to move.
You can still move when entangled; as per Core p.567:Being entangled
impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed.
@Krome - if BBEG has reach he needs to move the creature to an adjacent space. As per p.200:If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
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What?? I don't think so. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated does not equate to being grappled. It includes being paralysed, or unable to move.
Never said equates to grapple, but entangled, when it prevents movement, allows for auto success on grapple attempts. Until the attempt is made the character is only Entangled. Once the grapple attempt is made, the character is Entangled AND Grappled. They are not the same thing.
You can still move when entangled; as per Core p.567:Being entangled
impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed.@Krome - if BBEG has reach he needs to move the creature to an adjacent space. As per p.200:If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
Yeah I figure he HAD to move adjacent I was hoping for some other rule somewhere that allowed an out. The reason I was hoping for a way out is that by bringing the PC adjacent using grapple, he sets himself up to slaughter using Greater Cleave. Essentially trying to find a way to save the PCs. lol
BTW... entangled DOES equal no movement... you missed half the sentence...
UNLESS the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered to an opposing force.
So if you are entangled and anchored to an immobile object (such as a tree or the earth itself- via grassy vines), or tethered to an opposing force (such as the BBEG holding the bindings) then it entirely prevents movement. In such cases, a grapple check against the entangled character is an auto success.
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So what this guy can do is:
Round 1: Lash out to a range of 15 feet (can do this twice). If he hits, he Entangles the character(s) (which by being tethered to an opposing force, ie the BBEG, prevents all movement)
Round 2: Assuming the victim(s) has not escaped the Entangle, the BBEG auto succeeds at a Grapple. Pulls the character to an empty adjacent space (which should be next to the Fighter).
Round 3: Releases the Grapple(s) and uses Greater Cleave to HOPEFULLY hit up to three PCs in one round with his Greatsword. Still has his movement to position himself in a better tactical position, such as backing up so the PCs provoke AoO if they approach to attack.
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Mmm... looks like the issue is what exactly immobilized means.
It could just mean being unable to move.
It could mean being unable to move and being denied dex to ac.
After searching through the core book I found examples which support both interpretations, so I don't really know. There's no straight out definition of immobilized.
Alternatively, you could argue that the topsoil isn't an immovable object since you can just pull the roots -and dirt- up. A tree would have a better chance here, I think. A stone floor probably the best.
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Mmm... looks like the issue is what exactly immobilized means.
It could just mean being unable to move.
It could mean being unable to move and being denied dex to ac.
After searching through the core book I found examples which support both interpretations, so I don't really know. There's no straight out definition of immobilized.
Alternatively, you could argue that the topsoil isn't an immovable object since you can just pull the roots -and dirt- up. A tree would have a better chance here, I think. A stone floor probably the best.
I think you are right about the topsoil... makes more sense and I do not think the spell Entangle was ever intended to make the victim completely immobile.
I think immobilized in this case just means the normal definition, unable to move... not like petrified though, unable to move as in use your movement speed to move somewhere. I don't think it extends to denied dex to AC because I think if that were the mechanic they wanted they would have spelled that out.
In this case though it is a BBEG tethering the ends of the bindings and I am sure that based upon the definitions of Entangled the victim is immobile.
So, am I thinking this is more powerful (in THIS instance with this BBEG) than it really is? Not really that big a deal? I don't WANT to slaughter PCs...