A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. (p.563) - This means if they've moved this round with a DC 20 check you can detect the direction that they're in.
Within 30ft if you make a DC 40 Perception check you can pinpoint the creature (know which square it's in).
You still suffer the 50% miss chance and when it moves you've got to pinpoint it again.
The table shows what modifiers to the DC of the Perception check apply.
Add these modifiers to the Stealth check to find the true DC.
So, if you're a rogue with a ring of invisibility that you've activated and your Stealth check comes up 20 - the DC to know the general area that the rogues in is 40 (20+20) if he's in combat or speaking.
If he's not moving - 60 (+40 to the Stealth check). Or more correctly -20 to the Perception check.
To pinpoint the exact square he's in is +20 to the Perception DC.
Hope that clarifies :)
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I saw three posts on this topic but i still dont know what is the right rule.
Someone says that to pinpoint a creature that is invisible and not moving is DC 60, someone DC 40 and i dont understand the table in the book or on PRD page.Can someone answer this thing???
Thanks
pg 563 in core rule book 1 states the following:
"A creature can generally notice the presence of an ACTIVE invisible creature within 30ft with DC 20 perception."so the base for a moving/active invisible creature is DC 20 then apply all appropriate modifiers from the table on page 563.
Example
Fred is invisible and walking. George must role a perception DC 20 to "gain a hunch
something is there" but can't actually see it (core rules 1 pg 563) (in this case can't see Fred)
now to continue this example
Invisible Fred is talking to his buddy. Basic DC 20 (see above) -20 from it as per table (563) making the dc a 0. This only allows the George to know which square Fred is in. It does not negate any of the advantages of invisibility in combat other than the 50% miss chance of targeting the correct square.
Thats how I understand it. Hope it helps
I think the table is misleading and contains a typo. I always have used the numbers as a modifier to the DC.
Let's say your trying to pinpoint an invisible creature that is talking or in combat, the DC is 40 (to pinpoint) - 20 (From the table) = DC20
I also believe the Not Moving / -40 entry is supposed to be +40.
Actually the DC to Pinpoint a creature moving at full speed (-10 by the Chart) is 30, but yeah, its a pretty big difference. As stated in the Invisibility entry "It's practically impossible" to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check.
I would expect it to become significantly more difficult if they are not moving, making noise or otherwise giving some clue as to where they are.
Considering all the ways to defeat most forms of invisibility, "practically impossible" has worked for me both as a player and a GM.
I agree the table is misleading. It has both negative and positive modifiers for not moving etc. and distance.
IMO they should either all be a positive modifier to the Stealth check or a negative modifier to the Perception check.
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What I’m saying is the chart is mislabeled and contains the typo mentioned above. The Perception column is a modifier to the DC not the Skill Check result.
In combat or speaking > 40 DC to pinpoint –20 = DC20
Moving at half speed > 40 DC to pinpoint - 5 = DC35
Moving at full speed > 40 DC to pinpoint -10 = = DC30
Running or charging > 40 DC to pinpoint -20 = DC20
Not moving > 40 DC to pinpoint -40 = DC80
Then the Positives are applied to increase the DC (Again, not as modifiers on the Skill Check as the label on the chart implies) –
Using Stealth = Stealth check + 20
Some distance away = +1 per 10 feet
Behind an obstacle (door) = + 5
Behind an obstacle (stone wall) = +15
Oops then I go and repeat the typo...
Not moving > 40 DC to pinpoint -40 = DC80
Should be
Not moving > 40 DC to pinpoint +40 = DC80
I have a question regarding PINPOINT CREATURE. So an enemy has mirror image on him, so the player shuts their eyes then pinpoints him and shoots his bow and so his chance is now 50%. That’s a cleaver cheat, but my question is, should this be a movement action, because it is active searching and that would normally be perception check, but we did it as a free action?
Action
Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.
You already necroed a three-and-a-half year old thread. You did not ALSO need to necro a seven year old one.
I already replied in your other one.
The problem with here is that Paizo combined spot have listen into one skill. I also think that "notice DC" should just be removed since most people don't even know about it.
In Starfinder it is just a +20 to pinpoint, and a +40 if they are not moving, in addition to the stealth roll.
In Pathfinder it is 20 points higher, and I think that is ridiculous for a 2nd level spell.
Most GM's also don't separate hearing and visual signs.
Another side affect of this is that someone who is invisible, but in the same room has a really high DC to be perceived, but if they are on the other side of a brick wall, but not invisible it is easier to know they are there.
That is because the perception for penalty for being on the other side of a wall is based on the old "listen" skill from 3.5.
I am guessing that PF expected for GM's to know when to apply which senses, but they never actually said it, so it doesn't happen.