I have a love/hate relationship with HP-based systems. I like it because it's fast to use and scales with experience. On the other hand I hate it because it doesn't really model real battle wounds and such. So this is what I came up with:
The current HP is split into 2 different pieces. Those would be EP and HP. SP stands for Skill points. They could also be called exhaustion points or battle points, it really doesn't matter.
HP would always be CON X2(+toughness feat+ amulet of health etc.)
For an example a fighter would have CON 18 X2+10 toughness=46HP
EP would measure the skill, exhaustion and that kind of stuff during the battle. So when you lose EP it means you get more tired and do mistakes. Those things that are not really wounds. EP would be the class HD+lvl, so our fighter at level 10 would have 10d10+10 EP (plus possible favored class)
This is how it works in battle: If you get hit and take damage, the damage goes to EP. When EP goes to 0 the damage goes to HP. When HP goes to 0 you're dead.
When you start losing HP, you also roll Fortitude-save DC 10+ damage taken. If you fail, you pass out. Endurance and Orc gives bonuses to this.
Also each time you take a HP hit, you roll a wound from a table (1-10HP minor wounds 11-20HP Moderate wounds 21HP-40HP Serious wounds 41HP+ Deadly wounds)
Also when it comes down to healing, only Heal, Breath of life, and Regeneration heal HP wounds on top of natural healing (lvl/night of rest) Other healing spells would only heal EP (heal exhaustion). Clerics with healing domain could also heal HP
Critical hits would deal HP damage and EP damage. The base damage would go to EP and the critical extra would go to HP. For an example an axe wielding barbarian scores a critical hit, so 1d12+X would go to EP and 2d12+2X would go to HP. Sneak attacks would also go straight to HP, although only the sneak attack dice.
This slows down the gameplay a bit, but not as much as other more realistic systems. It also makes the game more grim'n gritty, where healing is a basic skill for every one.
What do you think?
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This is very similar to the system from the older d20 Star Wars (pre-Saga Edition), except that Star Wars characters had "HP" (called 'Wounds' in that system) equal to their CON... and that's basically it (feats like Toughness also existed to boost it a small amount). Your system makes characters slightly tougher than that, but then you go and say:
Critical hits would deal HP damage and EP damage. The base damage would go to EP and the critical extra would go to HP. For an example an axe wielding barbarian scores a critical hit, so 1d12+X would go to EP and 2d12+2X would go to HP. Sneak attacks would also go straight to HP, although only the sneak attack dice.
If your intention is to amplify D&D's lethality a hundred fold, this will definitely do it. If I were playing in your game with rules like this, I would suggest to everyone that we play an entire party of rogues. Two (or four?!) rogues flank someone, both dealing SA that goes straight to HP? Fights would never last more than 2-3 rounds. I'd also say that we should all use rapiers and get the keen enhancement as soon as humanly possible, probably through the use of scrolls of keen edge (which are useable with our UMD skill).
In the Star Wars system, critical hits went directly to Wounds, but they were never multiplied. They just did normal damage directly to the Wound total, bypassing EP (called "Vitality" in this system) entirely. There was no other way to bypass Vitality that I'm aware of... except there might have been a certain Dark Side Force power that hit Wounds directly, it did a minor amount of damage (4d4, I think).
Something for you to think about. You also have to realize that weapons in this system only critted on natural 20s and the "magic" system was extremely limited. There were no scorching rays or fireballs or magic weapons. There were a handful of Force powers (very few of which directly dealt damage) and the best weapon you could probably hope for was a masterwork lightsaber (which dealt 2d8+STR damage).
I've homebrewed a system of combat where critical hits do a small amount of ability score damage(note: NOT DRAIN) that shows some promise. I lifted the idea itself from Thieves World D20, but upped the damage a bit. I'll let you know how it works.
I like a lot of this, and I've done similar things in the past (Inspired by Hero system with Stun and Body points). So let me start by saying great job. A lot of this looks workable, but you don't need me to list the stuff that works.
So here is what I think doesn't work well with your implementaion:
1. HP becomes the roadblock to adventuring. EP can be lost, healed, lost again, healed again, just like CORE HP can. But under your system, as your HP are lost, it's very hard to get them back, which means that if we lost too many HP in our first fight of the day, it's time to leave and camp. Maybe camp for several days before we go back to the second room of the dungeon.
2. Healing domain becomes mandatory. If no other cleric can heal HP, then only a healing domain cleric can 'unblock' that HP roadblock.
3. Sneak attacks straight to HP is wrong. It turns rogues into gods of battle. A high level enemy might take hundreds of HP to bring down, but a rogue with one sneak attack could do 20-30 HP (which would be nothing more than a deep bruise in the CORE rules), but combine your rules with the FORT save, and our bad guy is almost sure to take a nap from a DC 40 FORT save. So now a rogue around 5th level or so can get into flanking, deliver a hasted TWF triple Sneak attack for around 9d6 sneak damage, which should do around 30+ HP bypassing the EP and dishing out multiple wounds and almost guaranteed unconsciousness, even to a fighter of near epic levels.
4. Your critical hits make x3 weapons far more powerful than x2 weapons. A high level fighter might have hundreds of EP but only a few dozen HP. Scoring a crit against him could eliminate all of his HP in a single blow if the attacker does enough damage with a x3 weapon. Even if it doesn't get all of his HP, it only needs to do about 25 or so damage to knock a high level fighter unconscious on that FORT save. But using a x2 modifier means it's much harder to wipe out an enemy in a single crit. I would reverse your rule: "on a critical hit, your base damage goes to HP and the additional Crit damage and ALL precision damage still goes to EP"
5. You didn't explain your wounds table very much. Does this include stuff like "you lose a hand" or "you suffer a broken bone" or "you go blind" or anything like that? Stuff like that (especially since HP are hard to heal) can be game-breaking. Nobody cares if the orc loses a hand; he's supposed to die anyway. But when the PC loses a hand, he's screwed for a long time, especially if he's low level. Regenerations are hard to get when you're only first level...
6. Can you go to negative EP? What about negative HP? If you have 5 EP left, and you take a hit for 8 damage, does 3 of that immediately hit your HP or do you have to be a 0 for the next hit to apply to HP?
Fixes:
1. Make HP a little easier to heal.
2. Don't tie healing HP to just one domain.
3. Precision damage shouldn't go to HP (Logically it seems like it should, but it's game-breaking).
4. Reverse the criticals so only the base damage without any precision damage hits HP.
5. Make sure that the kinds of wounds you can receive on your tables are fixable to low-level PCs. A first level fighter with 12 EP and 30 HP will lose his 12 EP in dang near every fight. Make sure he's not suffering wounds that will impede his ability to keep adventuring.
6. Those were just questions. No fixes.
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I've homebrewed a system of combat where critical hits do a small amount of ability score damage(note: NOT DRAIN) that shows some promise. I lifted the idea itself from Thieves World D20, but upped the damage a bit. I'll let you know how it works.
That's something I hadn't considered. Maybe using a hit-location based critical system might help.
Say when you score a crit, you roll a d20.
1-3: Left Arm
4-6: Right Arm
7-12: Torso
13-15: Left Leg
16-18: Right Leg
19: Groin/Abdomen
20: Head
Depending on the location you hit, the effects vary. A torso crit might deal normal critical damage + 1d4 CON damage. A shot to the arm might deal normal critical damage + 1d4 DEX damage (and impose a -2 penalty on attacks with that hand). A leg shot is critical damage and movement speed reduced by 10. Groin/Abdomen increases the critical damage multiplier by 1 and forces a Fort save (DC = base damage of the attack before multipliers) or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds. A head shot increases the multipler by 2 and forces a Fort save (as above) or lose consciousness for 1d4 minutes.
I've homebrewed a system of combat where critical hits do a small amount of ability score damage(note: NOT DRAIN) that shows some promise. I lifted the idea itself from Thieves World D20, but upped the damage a bit. I'll let you know how it works.That's something I hadn't considered. Maybe using a hit-location based critical system might help.
Say when you score a crit, you roll a d20.
1-3: Left Arm
4-6: Right Arm
7-12: Torso
13-15: Left Leg
16-18: Right Leg
19: Groin/Abdomen
20: HeadDepending on the location you hit, the effects vary. A torso crit might deal normal critical damage + 1d4 CON damage. A shot to the arm might deal normal critical damage + 1d4 DEX damage (and impose a -2 penalty on attacks with that hand). A leg shot is critical damage and movement speed reduced by 10. Groin/Abdomen increases the critical damage multiplier by 1 and forces a Fort save (DC = base damage of the attack before multipliers) or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds. A head shot increases the multipler by 2 and forces a Fort save (as above) or lose consciousness for 1d4 minutes.
I forgot to mention that Fort saves are an important part of my house rule/campaign setting rule for crits, but this table isn't bad for those of us who like random hit location. I don't, but I know some people who refuse to play a D&D-esque game without one. Currently, I have a simple 1d6 system(I think it's almost exactly like the TWD20 one) where 1= Str, 2= Dex, and so on. My rules incorporate that the size of the weapon itself determines how much damage is done to the stat, and the person suffering the crit needs to make a fort save vs. the amount of hit point damage done or suffer the ability score damage.
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I forgot to mention that Fort saves are an important part of my house rule/campaign setting rule for crits, but this table isn't bad for those of us who like random hit location. I don't, but I know some people who refuse to play a D&D-esque game without one.
I played some MechWarrior recently and the hit location/HP system in there is really cool. BattleTech/MechWarrior will always be the "random hit location" king in my book. :)
Also, you might want to consider making heavier armor more useful in absorbing some of the effects of those criticals. Especially since, in my opinion, bonuses to attack and damage rapidly outpace advances in AC. It makes the fighter feel like he's getting a little more value out of his full plate armor than just a couple of AC points.
I forgot to mention that Fort saves are an important part of my house rule/campaign setting rule for crits, but this table isn't bad for those of us who like random hit location. I don't, but I know some people who refuse to play a D&D-esque game without one.I played some MechWarrior recently and the hit location/HP system in there is really cool. BattleTech/MechWarrior will always be the "random hit location" king in my book. :)
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. Loved that about the game. I've never played it without a computer though.
Thanks for your feedback!
Fatespinner, I'm also a hardcore WoD GM and I simply love the combat mechanism (I've also made several house rules there as well). But it doesn't work on games that have leveling up as Pathfinder does, that's why I'm tweaking the d20 HP-system
DM_Blake, one of my points is that HP is _HARD_ to heal. I've always hated that after a battle everybody's suddenly fine again like nothing happened. I want that if you take a serius wound, it really is serious. This also makes magic more magical.
I guess your right about the critical hits dealing too much damage. I have to either tweak the weapons or think something less drastic. But my opinion about rogues stands, although I'd stricken the sneak attack rules. Flanking wouldn't suffice anymore.
The wound table would have everything from a bruise to decapitation, adapting to the current situation of course. It would be dependant on weapon type and the damage. I was thinking converting one of my old Runequest tables for this purpose.
Playing Pathfinder to assimalte reality? What? You have problems with dumbass hp but teleport, fireball, command undead, create undead, Divine Grace(paladin), are no problem.
If you seek a more realistic game i know one but it is in German. (Auge Des Meisters). Very realistic and complex! But you think at least twice and run before running in to combat.
Count duck, I'm not wanting a _fantasy_ role game to be realistic, I just experience that HP really doesn't present anything but points. I want the combat be part of the role playing experience. With RAW rules, the combat is a tactical board game and if I want to play a board game I play one.
Realism and deeper role playing experience are two different things. ;D