Just so you know, Deathquaker, My Necromunda gang is the all female Clan Escher.
I remember those now; they're pretty cool.
I think one thing that bugs me is that GW armies segregate the female models, with the exception of some Eldar/Dark Eldar (and Elf/Dark Elf) models (and some other fantasy units have female models, but usually only as magic users). I'd really love to see, say, random females in with the regular Imperial Guard units (I think they had that one woman in the Last Chancers). And in the Mordheim and Necromunda games, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to have mixed gender skirmish groups. Why do all the women have to be Escher or Amazons, but nowhere else? It reinforces an idea that women should be separated from men, however subtly. Why not have a Necromunda gang or Mordheim unit that comes mixed gender? You can do it through conversions, but that's all. I don't mean to go off on a huge rant here, but it does strike me as a little odd.
Witch Hunters is actually the best of these because you can at least have a mixed gender army, but they will still largely be segregated by unit unless you go out of your way to make an inquisitor with henchmen who are mixed gender.
Outside of gender politics, I personally would find it more aesthetically interesting.
The CSM codex is considered the end of 4th ed and all the codices afterwards were written better and more balanced.
Yep. I think part of Witch Hunters' problem is that they were one of the first codices that came out for 4th Ed and haven't had an update since (that I am aware of).
EDIT: At my LGS, there are equal number of women and men working at the store. Do you anly have one store, or are they all the same in the way they treat you? If there is more then one store, and they treat that way, that is a black mark on those stores. I have had women beat me in 40k, and I have had men beat me.(I do win, too.)the thing that is the same is tactics and dice rolling.(hot for them,cold for me) It does not matter what the gender of the person you play against, it is the quality and the fun of playing.
I live in Maryland. The staff are cool in the Battle Bunker in Glen Burnie. I've had some very negative experiences at the stores in White Marsh and Arundel Mills. The staff are nice in Timonium, but I've found the players irksome. I've never been to the store in Bel Air. I have never seen any female players other than myself, except at the one Games Day I went to in Baltimore a few years ago. I have never seen a female staff member at any of these stores. AGAIN: to be fair, I have now probably not gone to ANY of these places in at least two years (I did apply for a job once at one of the stores myself; this is not to say they should have hired me just because I am a woman however). It's fully possible they've improved since then, and I certainly hope that is the case.
I absolutely agree with you that player gender shouldn't matter, and this is absolutely the case when I play with my friends, and with the better opponents I've had at local tournaments. I hope one day that memo gets passed on to staff if it hasn't already.
And again: I was being bitter about the experiences I had, and I fully admit my initial comment was hyperbole.
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some of the rules don't help either, especially the one that now forces you to lose a special weapons model if they're on the end of your unit that get hit
Not to nitpick your argument, but are you sure you are playing this right?
The "position" of the model doesn't matter, it's the wound allocation of at least one wound to each model, then second wounds, then third, and then saves rolled betweeen models of like gear. "Unsaveable" wounds are assigned by the defending player, so there shouldn't be any risk to your special weapon characters, unless you want there to be.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your sentence...
some of the rules don't help either, especially the one that now forces you to lose a special weapons model if they're on the end of your unit that get hitNot to nitpick your argument, but are you sure you are playing this right?
The "position" of the model doesn't matter, it's the wound allocation of at least one wound to each model, then second wounds, then third, and then saves rolled betweeen models of like gear. "Unsaveable" wounds are assigned by the defending player, so there shouldn't be any risk to your special weapon characters, unless you want there to be.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your sentence...
You aren't misunderstanding it; I just misremembered (it's actually been at least a year since I played, so I've forgotten all the new rules now--despite having gotten several games in when the edition first came out).
What you said is the rule I was remembering. It's the wound allocation, not the positioning. I was talking about this with a friend last night.
Let's see if I can remember what happened... I was fighting Chaos, Eldar, and Space Marines (different battles, obviously). A number of them were able to land large amounts of fire on top of my units, meaning everyone had to make a save. Now, sisters have good saves as they wear Power Armor, so they do have this bonus in their favor.
Two things were happening--enough fire was hitting my units that everyone in the unit had to save. First, was that I was losing my saves--could simply be an issue of luck--on my special weapons. Sisters only get flamers, meltaguns, and storm bolters as specials, meaning in 2 out of 3 they have to get close range to use them. Specialized units are small, and IIRC particularly Chaos and Eldar had means of firing massive amounts of fire at very long range. Even with good saves my numbers would dwindle quickly before I ever got to use my special units.
Second, I was frequently losing my saves for my Sisters Superior (my "sergeants"). For any units other than Celestians and Seraphim, losing your Sisters Superior means your units are no longer Faithful. Having Faith is a lynchpin to having a successful Sisters army--much of the army's power is in those Faith points. In 4th ed rules, you didn't have to worry about losing your Faith-generating units so quickly, because you could "save them for last" if you felt you needed to.
Now, there is a flip side to losing Faith generating models quickly--if they die in combat, you earn back a Faith point. But you have to hope you still have a Faithful unit to use it. If you've managed to have crap saves on your wound allocations to your Sisters Superior, you could end up with a Faithless army pretty quickly, which makes the army not work well. (And it costs 14 points to make a Sister Superior Faithful, so that's a lot of points that can go down the drain with a lucky bolter shot.)
I am NOT going to say it's ALL the editions' fault it's hard to play Sisters of Battle anymore. And in some of these battles, despite the difficulties, I still held my own very well. There are other rules that help the sisters, especially some of the vehicle rules (since most of their weapons are short range, making them mobile is important).
It's still frustrating, however, to see the versatility of my army limited. And it's that army's versatility that made me like the army to begin with. I LIKE Faith. I like the close range combat. It used to be a challenging but rewarding army to play. There are ways to get around it, but the more obvious ones involve, "Don't play Sisters/Faithful units." Which takes away the part I had the most fun with. Sure, I could take out some of my units and throw in an extra Exorcist and a few Penitent Engines and buy myself a unit of those flayey things I can't remember the name of off the top of my head; maybe ally them with Demon Hunters. But then I'm not playing my army any more, and I'm not having fun any more. And I've got something like 3,000 points worth of Sisters that I'm not really wanting to part with.
It's just frustrating to see an army that worked really, really well even on local tournament level in 4th edition perform very poorly in 5th. Some of this is my own tactics and die luck, but some of it I truly feel is just an issue of obsolescence (and I realized--Witch Hunters isn't even a 4th edition codex, it's a 3rd edition one. Just barely--it came out right before 4th so they made sure it was compatible--but it's technically 2 editions behind).
At the same time, just talking about my army has got me thinking, "Hey, I never did that custom Penitent Engine conversion." Ah well, I always liked the hobby aspect of it the best. My army will always be very pretty, at least. :)
How IS Mordheim, by the way? It always looked really cool, but I could never find anyone to play.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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LOVE Mordheim! It's a blast if you have the right terrain, but it can be difficult to find players since it is no longer a "current" game.
One of my buddies maintains a "Mordheim Table" in his basement that is basically a permanent cityscape on a piece of 4x8 plywood. We get together about once a month (although I haven't been able to attend the last few months - hard to get away with an 18 month old in the house) and skirmish for what it's worth. We keep track of wins and losses, and earn experience to level up our minis. Each campaign lasts a year (12 sessions).
My favorite factions are the Pirates and the Sisters of Battle (I think that's what they're called. Basically, battle nuns).
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How IS Mordheim, by the way? It always looked really cool, but I could never find anyone to play.
It's a really fun game, lot of cool warbands to play like the Sisters, Witch Hunters, Undead, etc. And I love the experience system at the end where your guys/gals get XP for all the kills and mission objectives they finished plus you gather warp crystals during the game to sell for money to update your armor, weapons and hire mercenaries for your warband. The rules could have used a little better editing in some spots but I think they cover most of it with some errata downloads.
It's faster and simpler (and cheaper) than the WH and WH40K as you only have a dozen or so minis to maintain and track rather than all the squads and vehicles. I actually got a bunch of friends hooked on it for a while and they had absolutely no interest in tabletop mini games before Mordheim.|
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One of my buddies maintains a "Mordheim Table" in his basement that is basically a permanent cityscape on a piece of 4x8 plywood.
I have a corner in my basement full of houses, bridges, gallows and other stuff I made out of foamboard, popsicle sticks and other things from the craft store. By the end i was getting pretty good. I wish i had the space to actually have a permanent table...
My favorite factions are the Pirates and the Sisters of Battle (I think that's what they're called. Basically, battle nuns).
Mine were the Possessed, Witch Hunters and Pirates.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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One of my buddies maintains a "Mordheim Table" in his basement that is basically a permanent cityscape on a piece of 4x8 plywood.I have a corner in my basement full of houses, bridges, gallows and other stuff I made out of foamboard, popsicle sticks and other things from the craft store. By the end i was getting pretty good. I wish i had the space to actually have a permanent table...
My favorite factions are the Pirates and the Sisters of Battle (I think that's what they're called. Basically, battle nuns).Mine were the Possessed, Witch Hunters and Pirates.
Nice! I never did much with terrain creation, but I'd love to give it a shot if I ever get spare time again. I'm waiting until my daughter gets older so I can get her interested in gaming - I could use the help with painting/constructing minis. I figure by the time she's old enough, I'll have a thousand or so minis that need assembling and painting. Would that be considered child labor? ;)
Witch Hunters will probably be my faction for the next campaign in 2011...
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Nice! I never did much with terrain creation, but I'd love to give it a shot if I ever get spare time again. I'm waiting until my daughter gets older so I can get her interested in gaming - I could use the help with painting/constructing minis. I figure by the time she's old enough, I'll have a thousand or so minis that need assembling and painting. Would that be considered child labor? ;)
Not as long as you don't pay her, then it's just chores!
LOVE Mordheim! It's a blast if you have the right terrain, but it can be difficult to find players since it is no longer a "current" game.
One of my buddies maintains a "Mordheim Table" in his basement that is basically a permanent cityscape on a piece of 4x8 plywood. We get together about once a month (although I haven't been able to attend the last few months - hard to get away with an 18 month old in the house) and skirmish for what it's worth. We keep track of wins and losses, and earn experience to level up our minis. Each campaign lasts a year (12 sessions).
My favorite factions are the Pirates and the Sisters of Battle (I think that's what they're called. Basically, battle nuns).
They're the Sisters of Signar. Sisters of Battle are from 40K (formally, the "Adepta Sororitas")--the army I play in that game. I remember now--it's often suggested to 40K Sisters/Witch Hunters players to use Sisters of Signar for priest and inquisitor conversions.
Sounds like fun--I always liked the idea of combining mini skirmishes with an XP-based campaign and the like.
Pirates look neat, too.
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Pirates look neat, too.
Pirates were great! The swivel cannon, while not super effective, was such a great psychological weapon because everyone feared it's potential power.
Another aspect of the game that is a ton of fun is being able to do all sorts of conversions with your warbands. I had a great FLGS store and the owner would sell for almost nothing all the little bits and pieces he acquired from customers or through his own armies. I now have a sizable amount of 'bitz' like weapons, gear, skulls, small animals, lanterns and other stuff to personalize each guy in my group.
Pirates look neat, too.Pirates were great! The swivel cannon, while not super effective, was such a great psychological weapon because everyone feared it's potential power.
Another aspect of the game that is a ton of fun is being able to do all sorts of conversions with your warbands. I had a great FLGS store and the owner would sell for almost nothing all the little bits and pieces he acquired from customers or through his own armies. I now have a sizable amount of 'bitz' like weapons, gear, skulls, small animals, lanterns and other stuff to personalize each guy in my group.
Ooh, I LOVE converting minis. It is so much fun, when you've got the time to do it.
If the people you play with aren't sticklers for using Citadel minis (since I don't think there are any official Mordheim events anymore), a lot of Reaper's and Privateer Press's minis and bitz could be worked well into these bands--especially the pirates in fact.
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If the people you play with aren't sticklers for using Citadel minis (since I don't think there are any official Mordheim events anymore), a lot of Reaper's and Privateer Press's minis and bitz could be worked well into these bands--especially the pirates in fact.
I don't see why not, most people I played with had no problems as long as the minis were fairly close armor and weapons wise to what they are wielding on paper. Nothing is more annoying than to charge a guy and find out that he doesn't have a pitchfork, he has two pistols aimed at your head!
I used some Battle nuns from Reaper to represent the Sisters, I just had to do some drilling and a little glue to fit the hammers and whips in their hands. I think I used a few Reaper minis for the pirates and gladiator bands too.
By the way, sounds like Mordheim is the game for you! I wonder if you could track down a box set on ebay or something.
You can get the rules for Mordheim as free PDF's at the GW site under specialist games. I hope that helps those that are interested.
They do have minitures for that line also shown.
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It's just frustrating to see an army that worked really, really well even on local tournament level in 4th edition perform very poorly in 5th. Some of this is my own tactics and die luck, but some of it I truly feel is just an issue of obsolescence (and I realized--Witch Hunters isn't even a 4th edition codex, it's a 3rd edition one. Just barely--it came out right before 4th so they made sure it was compatible--but it's technically 2 editions behind).
Fair points all - and clearly you have a good understanding of your army's strengths and weaknesses (as do most Necron players, right now) ... I just wanted to be clear that your total frustration wasn't perhaps the result of a rule not interpreted right.
I met a player who "quit" recently for just such a rule misinterpretation reason, so I was hopeful it wasn't the same case over again.
Having said that, unfortunately what you're experiencing is also happening to some of the newer armies via the now internet-infamous Imperial Guard "Leafblower" lists which are designed principally on the idea of putting so much fire down range that it's practically impossible to role enough successful saves just based on statistical odds (blowing them off the table, hence the reference).
Now, having said that too ... the Deamonhunters and Witch Hunters codex were both taken off the shelves, and rumor based on some leaked concept art is we might see an integrated "Inquisition" codex sometime down the line. Sisters may come back better than ever.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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I used some Battle nuns from Reaper to represent the Sisters, I just had to do some drilling and a little glue to fit the hammers and whips in their hands. I think I used a few Reaper minis for the pirates and gladiator bands too.
The Reaper Battle Nuns are EXACTLY what I used for my Sisters of Signar (Thanks, DQ for the clarification), and all of my Pirates are Reaper minis, too. In fact, aside from my Warhammer Fantasy/40K armies, most of my minis are from Reaper.
As a group, we play pretty loose regarding minis. As long as they're to scale, it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is.
An older (and now deceased) game which used mixed groups (male/female) was Celtos & Void. Every blister came with 2 male, 1 female figures. I consider myself lucky I bought some of these years ago as by now they're pretty hard to find.
Bought some GW miniatures and played a few Warhammer battles but never picked up on the game.
Played a lot of Heroclix and (my personal favoriet) Horrorclix as well, before they killed of those games. Didn't pick up Heroclix after the revival by Neca though.
Also played some D&D and Star Wars miniature game the past years.
I agree Reaper and Warmachine/Hordes looks STUNNING.
But I only buy miniatures to paitnand use for RPG purpose only these days... :-(
Did someone request mixed gender pirates?
You might want to check out Tale of War, Black Scorpion and Freebooter Miniatures (specifically the Freebooter's Fate category).
That's one of the things I liked most about Dark Age. Mixing things up within the basic squads. Sure, some specialty ranks were gender-specific, but in many cases you could find male and female versions of most army list entries. It's a shame that game never really had its chance to shine.
Hills Rise Wild is another fun game. It's a 'miniatures' game that is out of print as far as I know (unfortunately) but it came packaged with everything you need to play. The 'minis' are cardboard and the 'terrain' are a series of tiles which are laid out mostly randomly so each game tends to be a bit different to play through.
However, if you love Cthulhu stuff the premise of the game is fun! You play a group of cultists trying to break into Old Wizard Whateley's mansion (he died) to steal his copy of the Necronomicon before any of the other cult factions can get a hold of it, then bring it back to your circle of power and summon your Great Old One or Outer God. The cults consist of the Marsh Clan (Deep Ones), the DeGhoule Clan (Ghouls), the Whateley Clan, and the Cult of Ezekiel.
Of course the catch is that even if you make it back to your circle with the Necronomicon in tow is that even then your Elder God of choice can still wipe you out if he's unpleased...our first game we played was like that. It ended in a draw with nobody alive because of a botched summoning roll -lol.
A very fun game indeed! If you can find a copy I'd certainly recommend it, though it's not a very fast play game.
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Infinity. I live in a post games workshop world and I have no regrets. Infinity is the best tactical squad based mini game I have ever played, bar none. I cannot recommend it enough.
here is the site: Infinity
I would like to play some Battlefleet Gothic; nobody ever seems to want to play...
