Just stuff I noticed while working on my Age of Worms conversion and was curios if anyone has answers too.
#1: Is there any actual purpose for the ability scores on the monsters? What the heck are the pluses and minuses after the ability scores? Do these actually follow any kind of a pattern at all? The Dire Boar I just finished adding to my adventure has Chr 8(+2) - seems real odd.
#2: How the heck do you assign an encounter an encounter level? Particularly if the encounter is non-standard. For example 'Beast' in Three Faces of Evil is a single Dire Boar. Chances are he'll be released during a larger fight and will become part of that encounter but that is not a sure thing, if the PCs stop him from being released then they may encounter him all alone. If so I'm dealing with a single creature worth 250 XP. How do I work out what a single Dire Boars Encounter Level is? Does the fact that I'm designing for 4 players change this number vis a vis designing for 5 (or some other number) players?
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For point #2 - you really need to deconstruct the entire combat to work out what level it's meant to be for 3.5, then apply the 4th edition building rules to it. It won't work particularly well if you just transfer the same number of critters across.
My advice is to make The boar a Brute creature one level higher than the characters. Have the other combat have a few soldier types to hold the players up and give them a chance to get the boar out, but fill it out with some minion types.
It's been a few years since I played that encounter out for my group, but I recall large numbers of undead and a couple of tiefliing type rogues or some such. Work out what the EL of that encounter was for a party in 3.5 and create an enounter the same level in 4th.
Treat the boar as a separate encounter. If it gets released so be it, just try to time it so they're not completely overwhelmed by the added brute.
My guys had to flee when that thing got released, leaving behind their strongest fighter type who got dropped in a very short time when it comes out. He's meant to be tough.
Hope that helps
Cheers
#1: Is there any actual purpose for the ability scores on the monsters?
It's there for your reference in case you need it. Monster ability scores rarely matter, but in the case of an untrained skill check you need the monster to make (an Athletics check to jump or climb, for instance), those ability scores let you know the monster's bonus.
What the heck are the pluses and minuses after the ability scores?
These are the monster's ability check bonus; just like a PC, a monster has a check bonus associated with each ability score.
Do these actually follow any kind of a pattern at all?
Ability check bonuses are equal to the monster's bonus (or penalty) from their score plus one-half the monster's level.
The Dire Boar I just finished adding to my adventure has Chr 8(+2) - seems real odd.
A Dire Boar is a level 6 creature, and thus receives a +3 bonus to most of its d20 rolls from its half-level bonus. A Charisma of 8 gives him a -1 modifier. The formula for calculating the Dire Boar's Charisma ability check bonus is thus: -1 + 3 = +2. The Dire Boar, accordingly, has a bonus of +2 to any Charisma ability check or untrained Charisma-based skill check. If the Dire Boar were to use a Bluff check as a standard action to gain combat advantage against an enemy, it would roll a d20 for the check and add its +2 Charisma-based skill check bonus.
For the most part, you don't need to worry about this math or why it's there. If you need it, it's there for you. If you don't need it, it's at the bottom of the stat block for a reason. In most combats and for most monsters, the ability scores and associated bonuses can be safely ignored.
A Dire Boar is a level 6 creature, and thus receives a +3 bonus to most of its d20 rolls from its half-level bonus. A Charisma of 8 gives him a -1 modifier. The formula for calculating the Dire Boar's Charisma ability check bonus is thus: -1 + 3 = +2. The Dire Boar, accordingly, has a bonus of +2 to any Charisma ability check or untrained Charisma-based skill check. If the Dire Boar were to use a Bluff check as a standard action to gain combat advantage against an enemy, it would roll a d20 for the check and add its +2 Charisma-based skill check bonus.
Thanks for the math. Its clear know - I had initially assumed it was the ability bonus but did not realize that they gave you the level bonus as well hence I became confused when I kept seeing things like Charsima's of 8 with a +2 bonus.
For point #2 - you really need to deconstruct the entire combat to work out what level it's meant to be for 3.5, then apply the 4th edition building rules to it. It won't work particularly well if you just transfer the same number of critters across.
My advice is to make The boar a Brute creature one level higher than the characters. Have the other combat have a few soldier types to hold the players up and give them a chance to get the boar out, but fill it out with some minion types.
It's been a few years since I played that encounter out for my group, but I recall large numbers of undead and a couple of tiefliing type rogues or some such. Work out what the EL of that encounter was for a party in 3.5 and create an enounter the same level in 4th.
Treat the boar as a separate encounter. If it gets released so be it, just try to time it so they're not completely overwhelmed by the added brute.
My guys had to flee when that thing got released, leaving behind their strongest fighter type who got dropped in a very short time when it comes out. He's meant to be tough.
Hope that helps
Cheers
OK I managed to guess that the Dire Boar should probably just be given a separate entry but I'm unclear how to figure out what that entry should be. What encounter level is a 250 xp creature anyway? Does my players characters level effect that number in any way? Does the number of people in my characters party effect that?
EDIT: OK I think I figured this out...there was an example in the DMG I must have missed. It does seem to be a relative number that varies by number of PCs though not really by their level. Still my adventure lies so much - I keep putting encounter level 1 on things like that Dire Boar but chances are what really happens is my PCs get swarmed by enemies emerging from all sides at different times.
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EDIT: OK I think I figured this out...there was an example in the DMG I must have missed. It does seem to be a relative number that varies by number of PCs though not really by their level. Still my adventure lies so much - I keep putting encounter level 1 on things like that Dire Boar but chances are what really happens is my PCs get swarmed by enemies emerging from all sides at different times.
I think you're going about it backwards. The Encounter Level is guide on how to balance the encounter for your party. Imagine it like a bucket of danger, appropriately sized to the party, in which you pour challenges (monsters, traps, skill challenges, terrain, etc.) until the bucket is full.
For example, if your party is 6th level (using the level of the Dire Boar as a guide), you turn to TARGET ENCOUNTER XP TOTALS on page 57 of the DMG and see that, for 4 PCs, a standard encounter would have 1,000 XP' worth of challenge as its target. If this is the case, and you're using the Dire Boar as above (250xp) as the only element of this encounter, your party is going to be having pork chops for dinner in short order. A 250xp Dire Boar would be, by itself, an Encounter Level of ~ 1/2.
There are things you can do to beef this up is include a skill challenge with the encounter, that determines whether or not the boar is released, hazardous terrain, traps, more monsters or something along those lines. Unfortunately I do not have Age of Worms and cannot help you with the specifics.
EDIT: OK I think I figured this out...there was an example in the DMG I must have missed. It does seem to be a relative number that varies by number of PCs though not really by their level. Still my adventure lies so much - I keep putting encounter level 1 on things like that Dire Boar but chances are what really happens is my PCs get swarmed by enemies emerging from all sides at different times.I think you're going about it backwards. The Encounter Level is guide on how to balance the encounter for your party. Imagine it like a bucket of danger, appropriately sized to the party, in which you pour challenges (monsters, traps, skill challenges, terrain, etc.) until the bucket is full.
For example, if your party is 6th level (using the level of the Dire Boar as a guide), you turn to TARGET ENCOUNTER XP TOTALS on page 57 of the DMG and see that, for 4 PCs, a standard encounter would have 1,000 XP' worth of challenge as its target. If this is the case, and you're using the Dire Boar as above (250xp) as the only element of this encounter, your party is going to be having pork chops for dinner in short order. A 250xp Dire Boar would be, by itself, an Encounter Level of ~ 1/2.
There are things you can do to beef this up is include a skill challenge with the encounter, that determines whether or not the boar is released, hazardous terrain, traps, more monsters or something along those lines. Unfortunately I do not have Age of Worms and cannot help you with the specifics.
Sure...The problem is the set up for Three Faces of Evil does not really work like this. Essentially what happens is the players enter the complex and find some skeletons in room #1. But the skeltons have bells attached to them so fighting the skeletons brings the human rabble (cultists) from room #2 into the encounter. So now we have skeletons and rabble. But thats not all - the denzens from room #3 will show up a little after the rabble, they are some Tiefling mages.
Then to make things even more complex the rabble are under orders to try and draw the PCs into an ambush - so presuming they live for a round or so the will flee the encounter to try and get the players to chase them. Meanwhile the Tieflings have no intention of sticking around either - they too will try and fall back, but they have the key to the Dire Boar's enclosure - if they can pull it off they want to release the Dire Boar and use it to cover their retreat.
So in this case the 'bucket' system simply is not working for me - only the Skeletons will fight to the death here. The rabble retreats after taking few casualties (and if I know my party they probably go into retreat mode before they even get to the part where they try and attack the PCs). The Teiflings are slightly better but even they will spend much of their time trying to get past the party so they can retreat deeper into the complex and then will spend a number of their standard actions trying to get the door where the Dire Boar is held open. If the Dire Boar does get into the fight then it too fights to the death.
So a Boar all alone is a joke but if the PCs have already been in combat for 8 rounds when it shows its much more difficult. Finally assigning encounter levels here is difficult - the boar may or may not be part of this fight. The rest of the individuals are, for the most part, not staying in this fight...If the PCs are too hasty and decide to follow the Rabble into the ambush then there is in fact a lot more creatures in this fight.
The difficulty of the encounter ranges from very easy - they don't fall into the Rabbles ambush and do keep the Teiflings from letting the boar out, up to insanely hard, they manage to some how both fight the boar and then, don't rest before walking into an ambush.
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Try it this way.
Build them as three separte encounters.
1) Skeletons and tieflings
2) Rabble leading to ambush
3) Boar
I'd make the tieflings strikers with some form of ability to escape (in 3.5 they had the darkness thing going for them, nt sure about 4th). The skeles can be minions, but make sure there are enough of them to slow the group. Make this encounter 1 lower than the group.
Rabble should all be minion types. They are only there to draw the party into another fight. Play this as a flexible encounter. If the party deal easily with encounter 1 have this lot turn up at the end. To get them to draw the players in make sure they flee and shout things like "we must warn the others" and "bar the doors behind us so the wards are enabled". This encourages the group to come into the ambush. If they fall for it run the encounter as a full ambush as spelled out in the scenario (2 levels higher than PC's its meant to be tough). If they don't fall for the ambush, create two smaller encounters from the critters in there that the players can deal with piecemeal instead.
I'd make the boar a Solo creature (play with the stats and use the rules in monster creation to do this). If the tieflings from encounter 1 get to release him, give the players a round or two of grace as they hear the terrible beast screaming deeper in teh complex, shouts of terror as it charges through, scattering everything else before it. This gives them a very brief chance at a short rest to regenerate encounter powers. Then run it as a new encounter. If the boar comes out, don't do the rabble bit. Assume the common folk were scattered in terror when the behemoth boar comes charging out of its cage.
4th edition ecounter design doesn't match the flexability of the Age of Worms campaign without a fair bit of fiddling with the encounters. I'd be making some "if/then" scenarios like I suggested above. If the party succeed early, then they have more encounters but each one is easier. If they fail, then they get less encounters, but they're harder.
Don't worry about keeeping monster numbers the same etc, just design encounters based on level (eg level of party +2). Your players don't know how many critters are in the place, so they won't know that the two encounters of equal level had more creatures than the single encounter of level +2. All they know is one was easy, the other was really hard.
Hope that's more helpful
Even in 3.5, experienced players may not be easily baited, so you will have to plan for that event, unless there is some pressing reason to advance. I agree the skeletons can be minions, the tieflings strikers (to harass the party), and whatever else makes sense based on the age of worms scenario.
You could also add in a skill challenge to silence the bells, while the skeletons retreat, that make take the focus off a combat encounter, and trick them into following.
"The boar itself could be tough, but even in the absolute worse case, there are some options for smart PCs - a nimble PC could try luring it back into the cage, and then dart out as his friends shut the door again."
Sounds like a good candidate for a skill challenge in addition to the combat option and let the players decide the best option.
You may also let a decent scout determine there a skeletons in the room, before they sense the party, to see if there is a way to quickly dispatch them or bypass, realizing the intent of the bells.
Thanks for the advice. I think my biggest issue on designing this was in assigning encounter levels to the various component parts. During a conversion it seems to make sense to think of each component area as separate because thats how they are laid out.
That said what I really have when the whole complex is considered is two encounters. One I described above with all sorts of people entering and exiting a fight and a second encounter that exists in two possible states.
In one state the PCs fall into an ambush and fight most of the rest of the monsters in the complex at a disadvantage as these monsters move up to the ambush zone. While in the other state the PCs instead see through the ambush and batter down the door leading around the ambush zone - in which case the PCs fight the same creatures but this time they are encountering the creatures in smaller groups, though none of the creatures would stick around to die - instead they would retreat back to the next room after taking some damage and thus get some help from the inhabitants of the next room.
The second encounter in particular is odd because its location and tactics change depending on what the PCs do - Odd to have an encounter that exists in two separate states but I suppose its perfectly possible to design this so that it reads Encounter#2 (A version) and Encounter#2 (B version).
Its also a bit confusing, especially in the B version of encounter#2 because, when the monsters retreat the PCs have the option of just letting them go while they catch their breath for 5 minutes. Thus creating what is much like a separate encounter.
I think DMG2 had a multi-room encounter which I will look at to see how I should accomplish the layout.
I find it sort of interesting in trying to work this encounter out because it seems counter intuitive to translate this to 4E.
However there are also many elements of this encounter that have a look and feel that are very much in line with how 4E is trying to do encounters. Mike Mearls is the authour of Three Faces of Evil and you can certainly see '4E' in the way he was designing this 3.5 adventure.
QUESTION #3:
Elements of Encounter #1, specifically some of the Human Rabble and the Tiefling Heretics will try and retreat. If they do they become part of Encounter #2. How would you handle this in terms of designing Encounter #2? Would you include them in the XP budget? If so should I just pick some arbitrary amount that I think might escape?
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Sure...The problem is the set up for Three Faces of Evil does not really work like this.
Yes. Like I said, without Age of ... it is very difficult for me to give good advice. After seeing what your response is, and Matthew's and Wraith's excellent advice, the only thing I can do is point you to the paragraph on page 77 of DMG2, "A Long Fight." Also check out the sample encounter in PULLING IT ALL TOGETHER which starts on pg 75 to see the individual encounters and then page 77 for combining it into one fight. Also check out the sidebar "Long Fights" on page 55 for giving recuperative benefits to the party while facing the waves.
Hope this helps! Enjoy your game!
Technically, 3.5 is no different from 4E, as each offers mutlitple room encounters in modules, etc. and it is up to the DM to monitor the flow. Like 3.5, 4E offers some tools to help break it down, but nothing beats DM experience.
There are distinct differences on how 3.5 and 4E cover player and monster abilties, and once you have that covered, the rest is 101 design stuff.
Sounds like you are on the right track.
That's what I do, too. A while back, we had a thread about encounter design where someone suggested that every 4e combat should have a "twist" - reinforcements show up from other rooms, terrain changes during the fight, or some other challenge appears. I've really tried to take this to heart, and I've found that it's made my encounters much more interesting.
I really like the way that Matthew broke this encounter down a few posts back. That's a great 4e encounter right there!
I played the first of the encounters I described above.
The interesting thing I learned from doing this is that encounters where enemies arrive in waves, even if the PCs cannot take a short rest, seem to be a LOT easier then if one faced all the enemies from the get go.
Mathematically my players faced:
Initially:
3 Skeleton Soldiers (lvl 3 soldiers; 450 xp)
After 3 rounds in came:
8 Human Rabble (lvl 2 minions; 248 xp)
On round 6 in came:
2 Tiefling Heretics (lvl 4 (reduced 1 level) artillery; 350 xp)
near the end of the fight:
1 Dire Boar (lvl 5 brute; 250 xp)
So that is a total of 1298 xp
I have 4 3rd level characters so this is 3 xp shy of the encounter builder telling me that the encounter is 'to hard'.
Actually the encounter went great with the players pressed but never seriously so, some action points where used (mainly in chasing down cultists before they could warn people) but no dailies. I guess the lesson here is you can definitely ramp up the opposition if they come in waves small enough and slow enough that the players mostly deal with one group prior to the next showing up. That is what happened here - in each case the last of the previous opposition pretty much died about the round after the new guys where introduced.
Question #4:
So my players are close to leveling up to 4th level. The 'teaser' demo Character Builder definitely did its job for WotC as my players are hooked and I told them that they need to subscribe to DDI if we are to continue.
As the DM I don't have to pay (they make me dinner on game night too, Yah DM fringe benefits) for this but sense the game takes place at my house (and two of the 4 players are house mates) we'll keep the program here - I need access to the tools and everyone levels up either before or after a session in any case.
The point is I've just now gotten access to the DDI - is there some kind of a random treasure generator on it? I don't see one so I doubt it (if not that'd be a pretty good tool to add and probably not to tough). I've been using the one at asmor.com - its pretty good but has not been updated at all recently. If the DDI does not have a treasure parcel generator does anyone know of one on the interwebs better then the one at asmor.com?
There is no treasure generator that I'm aware of, but you don't have to keep the program at your house. You can download each update up to 5 times per month. That means 5 different people can download each month to a different computer. Or if there are more than 5 people, you can rotate the person that won't get the update each month.
Question #5:
So my players continue on their adventures and I'm know designing Encounter at Blackwall Keep. This adventure heavily features Lizard Folk and as any grognard of D&D knows adventures that feature Lizard Folk as the opposition are actually dealing with a situation where the Lizard Folk are not the true enemy. Its a D&D trope that the Lizard Folk are either being duped or the Humans are and in truth they should not be fighting. Generally the adventure offers a way for the PCs to make peace with the Lizard Folk part way through and leads them to the real enemy (see, for example U2: Danger at Dunwater).
Because the Lizard Folk are not the true enemy but will be the initial opposition I want the Lizard Folk warriors who are defending their lair to flee whenever they are bloodied, their will be a lot of them in the encounter so many should manage to get away. This serves the plot later when the players negotiate an truce and turn on the real enemies, since its harder to explain a truce if the PCs have put just about every common lizard folk warrior to the sword, while its much easier to fathom if a great many still live (even if wounded).
My problem is in setting the XP budget for this encounter. I'm trying to figure out how much easier a creature is if it runs away when bloodied and won't fight again (unless cornered or chased down). I'm kind of wavering between treating them as 1/2 value for XP and 2/3rd value.
If I was doing the exact same thing, I would tend towards 2/3rds. The reason being if there are alot of them, most of them will be at above half health for most of the encounter. This is because the pcs may not pick up on the fact that they can just let the runners go. Especially if you have any leader types that give any temporary hps.
Question #6
I'm about to dump a metric crap load of consumables on my players as treasure (converted the gold they would have received for 5th level into consumables).
I've made a character using character builder named 'Magic Holder' who exists purely to generate about a zillion power cards for all the alchemical items, ammunition, reagents etc. I even noticed that you can have a character sheet duplicate an item so as to make it appear more then once for the print out so they'll get a card for every single item I'm handing them - that way they can give me the card when they drink one of the 7 potions of healing they'll be getting, or they use up a blast patch etc.
The problem I'm having is that giving 'em physical representations of all their loot with all the rules etc. on them is great but I can't do anything like that with scrolls.
I'd really like to make something similar for all the scrolls I'm handing out - in fact I'd like to work with my Wizard Player and create a 'ritual spell book' - that would help him as he'd have all his rituals and their rules in front of him. The problem is that the only way I can see to get a print out of this is to print out full pages using the Compendium. Full pages is major overkill - it'd start to get in the way at the table. Anyone know of anyway to get rituals in a more condensed format?
Question #6
I'd really like to make something similar for all the scrolls I'm handing out - in fact I'd like to work with my Wizard Player and create a 'ritual spell book' - that would help him as he'd have all his rituals and their rules in front of him. The problem is that the only way I can see to get a print out of this is to print out full pages using the Compendium. Full pages is major overkill - it'd start to get in the way at the table. Anyone know of anyway to get rituals in a more condensed format?
When I pass out unique magic items or Ritual Books, I use a sheet of blank Magic Item Cards that is an editable pdf. I am limited as to where I can surf here at work, so I can't give you a link, but maybe someone else can link it or you can just google it.
Question #7:
I've got a warden in among my players and the wardens marking power would seem to be a free action to mark any and every enemy within 5 spaces. Is that correct?
In actual use the Warden player seems to mainly mark enemies that can't really get to him in order to apply a blanket -2 penalty (and also because he can then slide them when they don't attack him).
I'm mainly wondering if I'm doing this wrong because this is really not an 'I'm a sticky defender' type of ability but more one that makes enemies the warden is not dealing with -2 to hit - which seems both out of place and the ability to make all enemies -2 to hit every round as a free action seems too powerful.
Question #7:
I've got a warden in among my players and the wardens marking power would seem to be a free action to mark any and every enemy within 5 spaces. Is that correct?
In actual use the Warden player seems to mainly mark enemies that can't really get to him in order to apply a blanket -2 penalty (and also because he can then slide them when they don't attack him).
I'm mainly wondering if I'm doing this wrong because this is really not an 'I'm a sticky defender' type of ability but more one that makes enemies the warden is not dealing with -2 to hit - which seems both out of place and the ability to make all enemies -2 to hit every round as a free action seems too powerful.
The Warden's ability, Nature's Wrath, lets them mark all adjacent enemies as a free action once per turn.
If the enemy then violates their mark, they can use one of two powers in response:
-Warden's Fury, which lets them take a melee basic attack (with some bonuses); or
-Warden's Grasp, if the enemy is within 5 squares, which lets them slide the enemy and slow it for the rest of its turn.They can only use one of these (they are both immediates), so typically if the enemy is still next to the Warden, they will use Warden's Fury, while if the enemy has gotten away from them, they can try and slide them back.
However, they can't mark enemies who are 5 squares away - it sounds like the player might have gotten confused by Warden's Grasp, but that just lets them react to enemies, within 5 squares, that they already have marked.
Thanks.
OK this all sounds perfectly reasonable, your likely correct that the player is getting the power confused. Their newbs and don't have players handbooks so if its not on their character sheet they tend to forget how it works. The intricacies of marking being one such area. Probably I should have picked up on this.
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A while back, we had a thread about encounter design where someone suggested that every 4e combat should have a "twist" - reinforcements show up from other rooms, terrain changes during the fight, or some other challenge appears. I've really tried to take this to heart, and I've found that it's made my encounters much more interesting.
It was the 4E Time Management Thread HERE
Which is good for a re-read and for the OP.
Question #8:
So I was happily beating the snot out of my players with a couple of Kyuss Spawn the other evening when the wizard summoned a Flaming Sphere and the party used it to block up the passage and orchestrate a tactical withdrawal involving them running as fast as their little legs can carry them into the next county.
Could they really block up a passage with this thing? It seems to be both a physical object and not at the same time - the enemies can't move through it but neither can they interact with it. Their fleeing from the encounter does not really bother me but I suspect they picked up how they could abuse this in some later encounter by hiding behind it while shooting over it while the bad guys where unable to get to them.
Question #8:
So I was happily beating the snot out of my players with a couple of Kyuss Spawn the other evening when the wizard summoned a Flaming Sphere and the party used it to block up the passage and orchestrate a tactical withdrawal involving them running as fast as their little legs can carry them into the next county.Could they really block up a passage with this thing? It seems to be both a physical object and not at the same time - the enemies can't move through it but neither can they interact with it. Their fleeing from the encounter does not really bother me but I suspect they picked up how they could abuse this in some later encounter by hiding behind it while shooting over it while the bad guys where unable to get to them.
Well, I think there are probably a couple lessons to take away from this. The first, of course, is to avoid 5-foot-wide corridors. There's no better way to bog a fight down.
The second is to try and build encounters to incorporate some ranged capability when possible. Because movable conjurations end if the caster ends its turn outside line of effect with the conjuration, if the Wizard can see the flaming sphere in the corridor, your monsters in the corridor can likely also see the Wizard. Concentrating ranged attacks on the Wizard to force him down is a good way to disrupt the flaming sphere.
From players handbook 2
Occupies No Squares: The conjuration occupies no squares
The only exception is when a specific power states the conjuration may occupy a square, but it must also state it is treated as an ally to provide cover, or flanking (some shaman pets), etc.
Therefore, the flaming sphere can not provide cover, but the creatures may jump over it.
Summoned creatures or objects (different rules), which would have all the behavior of occupying a square and providing cover.
That is why I think the rules compendium will be a great addition.
Well, I think there are probably a couple lessons to take away from this. The first, of course, is to avoid 5-foot-wide corridors. There's no better way to bog a fight down.The second is to try and build encounters to incorporate some ranged capability when possible. Because movable conjurations end if the caster ends its turn outside line of effect with the conjuration, if the Wizard can see the flaming sphere in the corridor, your monsters in the corridor can likely also see the Wizard. Concentrating ranged attacks on the Wizard to force him down is a good way to disrupt the flaming sphere.
True that my newbs probably can't to much out of this because they are weak on range attack...
...Though it dawns on me that my party (the one I'm a player in) really ought to exploit this...We are stunning at range, a dedicated Drow sniper as well as a 'defender' thats some how abused the two weapon rules to allow him to chop or throw two hand axes a turn. This on top of the usual assortment of clerics (yours truly) and wizards.
We are in Scales of Wr which should be more open...but there are doors, I've seen many a door - even in Scales of War. Any 5' door works fine for what we are trying to do.
From players handbook 2
Occupies No Squares: The conjuration occupies no squares
The only exception is when a specific power states the conjuration may occupy a square, but it must also state it is treated as an ally to provide cover, or flanking (some shaman pets), etc.
Therefore, the flaming sphere can not provide cover, but the creatures may jump over it.
Summoned creatures or objects (different rules), which would have all the behavior of occupying a square and providing cover.
That is why I think the rules compendium will be a great addition.
I'm not really following you. Flaming Sphere specifies that it is a medium creature...but it has no hps or defences or anything like that so it can't be interacted with so far as I can tell. Enemies could jump over it but if we are abusing it we'll all be lined up behind it - no squares for them to land in.
Flaming sphere states it is medium size and occupies a square, but does not state it is a creature. Conjurations by nature are not solid, and would not provide cover (as an ally or object), summoned creatures would.
However, you can state the sphere offers concealment on further thought, so the affect is the same.
As to jumping over it, the creatures can be intelligent and counter the party tactic by retreating as well, and if initiative is split and the party moves the sphere forward, some may have the opportunity to jump over it.
In the end, it all works out as both DM and players learn to use terrain to their advantage.
Question #9:
So I was looking over David Roberts monster Thog in the Monsters of the Hyborian Age thread and one of the creatures traits made me think of something I'd have though worked well with the trait. Namely disallowing the players to charge (in this case because slime means they can't keep their footing while in a headlong charge).
So is something like that even legal in 4E? Anyone ever seen a power that disallows basic PC moves like charging or grabbing? How would you word something like this if it is even legal?
I don't know of any existing creature that prohibits charging, grappling, or bull rushing. The only creatures that come to mind that stop these moves are immune because of another trait (like at will teleportation or resistance to push effects). As for wording, what about this? "Other creatures cannot begin or end a charge within the aura."
Question #9:
So I was looking over David Roberts monster Thog in the Monsters of the Hyborian Age thread and one of the creatures traits made me think of something I'd have though worked well with the trait. Namely disallowing the players to charge (in this case because slime means they can't keep their footing while in a headlong charge).
So is something like that even legal in 4E? Anyone ever seen a power that disallows basic PC moves like charging or grabbing? How would you word something like this if it is even legal?
When in doubt, Compendium!
The Water Archon Waveshaper from the Monster Manual 2 has an ability called Dizzying Whirlpool: Ranged 10; +19 vs Fortitude; 2d8+7 damage, and the target cannot charge or shift (save ends).
If you want to turn it into an aura, you could use wording like "Creatures within the aura cannot charge. A creature who charges into the aura ends its charge immediately."
Cool, I think that covers it, thanks.
Question #10
So I'm looking over converting House of Strahd (2nd edition remake of I6: Ravenloft) and I note that one of Strahd's main tactics in the adventure is pretty much guerrilla war with the PCs. Once they enter his castle he'll hit them repeatedly...but these attacks will clearly be separate attacks and will take place at least hours apart and sometimes on different days.
I'm trying to figure out what to do XP wise with this since the players will likely 'beat' Strahd closing in half a dozen times (figure 4 guerrilla attacks, one fight to the death...except he's a vampire and will turn to mist and flee to his coffin...so likely 1 more fight to the final death).
Only two of these fights are likely to be the pull no punches kind - the first four probably go on until he is bloodied
I don't think that the players are justified in getting 6 times the Strahd's XP for only really finally beating him once, but on the other hand it seems pretty clear that that the way I am playing a creature with reginerate is in such a manner that he does not really represent just 1 Strahd worth of XP. Any suggestions?
Treat the skirmishes as skill challenges that unlock other features of the dungeon later on, that make Strahd weaker or stronger in regards to his own stats or underlings/minions that protect him. You could also implement traps, where strahd is secondary to what he is trying to lead the characters into. I am not familar with the module since it has been so long and the last time I played the original was using GURPS, but the first couple encounters he may be only a name, or voice in the hallway, taunting the characters to continue. A liberal use of secret doors and rooms, and maybe even false Strahds could be used. I am not sure how loyal you are in regards to staying true to the orignal adventure, but it would also be an opportunity to show some of the strengths of 4E.
Question #10
So I'm looking over converting House of Strahd (2nd edition remake of I6: Ravenloft) and I note that one of Strahd's main tactics in the adventure is pretty much guerrilla war with the PCs. Once they enter his castle he'll hit them repeatedly...but these attacks will clearly be separate attacks and will take place at least hours apart and sometimes on different days.I'm trying to figure out what to do XP wise with this since the players will likely 'beat' Strahd closing in half a dozen times (figure 4 guerrilla attacks, one fight to the death...except he's a vampire and will turn to mist and flee to his coffin...so likely 1 more fight to the final death).
Only two of these fights are likely to be the pull no punches kind - the first four probably go on until he is bloodied
I don't think that the players are justified in getting 6 times the Strahd's XP for only really finally beating him once, but on the other hand it seems pretty clear that that the way I am playing a creature with reginerate is in such a manner that he does not really represent just 1 Strahd worth of XP. Any suggestions?
What about them gaining 1/4 the total XP he offers while gaining full XP for any other monsters he brings along. I'd also limit how much Strahd can do in a single skirmish. He wouldn't gain/use his Action Point or Encounter Powers but Rechargeable ones and at-wills are all OK in my book. In the encounters where he doesn't pull punches, have him use either his big encounter or his Action Point and possibly have stronger allies.
How is the conversion going by the way? I had thought to Convert the Return to Castle Ravenloft supplement of v3.5 to 4E but I think that'd be a huge undertaking.
Treat the skirmishes as skill challenges that unlock other features of the dungeon later on, that make Strahd weaker or stronger in regards to his own stats or underlings/minions that protect him. You could also implement traps, where strahd is secondary to what he is trying to lead the characters into. I am not familar with the module since it has been so long and the last time I played the original was using GURPS, but the first couple encounters he may be only a name, or voice in the hallway, taunting the characters to continue. A liberal use of secret doors and rooms, and maybe even false Strahds could be used. I am not sure how loyal you are in regards to staying true to the orignal adventure, but it would also be an opportunity to show some of the strengths of 4E.
I'm moderately loyal to the adventure. Nothing is exactly sacrosanct, but changes are not flippant either. That said the attacks do probably need to be real attacks. The way the adventure is set up there is this huge castle but its not heavily populated. Strahd's attacks represent a reasonably high percentage of the combat encounters in the adventure.
The adventure pretty much assumes that the DM is going to take on the roll of Strahd and within limits set by his objectives and personality quirks use him almost as the PCs use their characters. Here is a genius Vampire Lord out to defend his castle...and he's really the hands on sort.
How is the conversion going by the way? I had thought to Convert the Return to Castle Ravenloft supplement of v3.5 to 4E but I think that'd be a huge undertaking.
Just reading and plotting at the moment. Basically speaking after Champions Games in Age of Worms I need to start adding some filler to my 4E conversion of Age of Worms because the final scenes in Age of Worms really require that that the players be a good way through Epic, 26th level at least. Hence I need to find about 6 levels worth of adventures to add to Age of Worms. Well with a newbie group it just goes without saying that I could not pass up a chance to put them through a version of Ravenloft.
I'm technically doing the conversion for Champion's Games right now and Ravenloft comes in because there is a murder investigation subplot in Champion's Games that I can use to link the two adventures.
Your other option in Ravenloft is to convert Strahds spells into rituals, and based on him knowing everything within the castle, this provides the option of preparing rituals to set a scene, akin to using zones, or something similar. You could add summoning on top of it, like the bats swirling around while he attacks. You could even go back to some of the other spells available to his class, to provide more inspiration for rituals.
Your other option in Ravenloft is to convert Strahds spells into rituals, and based on him knowing everything within the castle, this provides the option of preparing rituals to set a scene, akin to using zones, or something similar. You could add summoning on top of it, like the bats swirling around while he attacks. You could even go back to some of the other spells available to his class, to provide more inspiration for rituals.
At the moment my basic idea is to incorporate the fact that, in life, he was a great warrior, He became a Vampire and, in death he has mastered necromancy. So I've got a 'Gith' Vampire with spells that need to be themed along the lines of necromancy and warrior abilities that probably should reflect an aristocratic upbringing. I'll toss in some movement powers as well to make it easier for him to enter and exit the scene.
In the end I'm looking at what amounts to a particularly detailed and complex Solo (especially for 11th level PCs). Now it will be interesting to see if I can keep the encounters with him interesting for multiple confrontations but I'm not to concerned with this element. I've never done it before but that's fine. I see it as something of an experiment and, one way or another, I'll now more about different methods of using Solo's when everything is said and done.
In terms of encounter layout I don't want to plan out each separate encounter with him. That kind of invalidates the experiment and I think I need to be able to use him to help control pacing in the adventure as well. As written he is also supposed to be suffering some significant restrictions (he sleeps in his coffin during the day). I'm not yet decided on whether I'll follow that carefully or not. On the one hand following it means I don't get the same kind of pacing advantages (at least during the day) on the other hand I might get a better experience at the table if I'm being authentic in how I handle this. I'll add some variety to the encounters by having him summon things (he's a necromancer) to utilize after the first time the PCs fight him off and I'll keep those varied.
I also still need to think about how much I should be coughing up in terms of XP for this enemy. Difffan's suggestion of 1/4 his actual value at each meeting where he is not finally killed and full value for that final scene is where I'm currently leaning.