Kingmaker: Value of Loyalty in building a Kingdom?


Kingmaker

Scarab Sages

How useful is Loyalty compared to Economy and Stability? Economy gets you more BPs, Stability wards off unrest and most random events, but Loyalty only seems to matter if you're looting your kingdom or with the random events feud and scandal (and the consequences of failing are not that bad).

Why wouldn't you set taxation at "overwhelming" and festivals at "none" and take the hit in Loyalty?


It could be that later portions of the adventure path will have events that might require you to rally your people making Loyalty checks to make things happen smoothly.

Or it might not.

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Dr. Gradgrind wrote:

How useful is Loyalty compared to Economy and Stability? Economy gets you more BPs, Stability wards off unrest and most random events, but Loyalty only seems to matter if you're looting your kingdom or with the random events feud and scandal (and the consequences of failing are not that bad).

Why wouldn't you set taxation at "overwhelming" and festivals at "none" and take the hit in Loyalty?

Loyalty has a few uses, but they're mostly limited to random events. It's MAJOR use doesn't really come into play until your kingdom goes to war—Loaylty checks become very important then, since they not only help you to keep your army together and functioning with a good morale, but also to keep your nation from getting too worn out and discouraged by the war itself.

You can certainly set things up so that your nation's Loyalty is a dump stat, but when those events show up you'll be hurting, and when it comes time to build up and maintain an army things might get grim.

(At one point, the mass combat rules were actually a part of the Kingdom/City building article, but the article just got to be TOO big and we had to cut the mass combat element. Since the AP doesn't actually HAVE mass combat until the penultimate adventure anyway, it made sense to cut them from #32 and relocate them to #35.)

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It almost makes since for your Loyalty to be a low stat early on in your kingdom considering how it comes to be and all.


Scipion del Ferro wrote:
It almost makes since for your Loyalty to be a low stat early on in your kingdom considering how it comes to be and all.

This. Really, you're more a province of Brevoy than anything. At any point some higher-ranking noble could show up and say "Nice work...think I'll take it."

Not likely, but they could.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
(At one point, the mass combat rules were actually a part of the Kingdom/City building article, but the article just got to be TOO big and we had to cut the mass combat element. Since the AP doesn't actually HAVE mass combat until the penultimate adventure anyway, it made sense to cut them from #32 and relocate them to #35.)

FWIW, this makes me sad. I would love to run a game focusing heavily on those two subsystems, but as it is, by the time the mass combat rules are released, I'll be in the middle of moving and taking care of a four-month-old...hardly in a position to invest a lot of time into gaming :(

Also, the idea of having two main stats for your kingdom (Loyalty and Defense) that serve little to no use because the relevant rules aren't available yet really irks me.


Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:
Also, the idea of having two main stats for your kingdom (Loyalty and Defense) that serve little to no use because the relevant rules aren't available yet really irks me.

I have a house-rule that you get half your city's Defense against random kingdom events that makes sense, such as disaster (stronger, more fortified buildings hold out better against storms and such) and monster attacks.

And I make use of the loyalty bonus to do other things, such as designating NPC's attitude towards the rulers when they talk to them. (The commoners get quite peeved when the festivals are cut and taxes raised, and they don't build any loyalty buildings)

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