I'm working on a concept for my Barbarian character, and I want some ideas about how to achieve the specific concept.
Bear in mind that I'm trying to do it within the parameters of the classes presented withing the PFCR.
To preface this, I want to explain that the concept has evolved. Originally I just wanted to focus on him being an "All comers" tank -- specializing in taking on multiple foes at once. The dialogue between Fezzig and the Man in Black in The Princess Bride comes to mind.
But that has evolved into the concept of what I call a "Disruptor". I want him to be the guy who messes up the othetr side's plans. Primarily, I want him to be capable of tying up enough of the other side's forces to prevent them from flanking the other party frontliners, to fill up avenues of manouver, and be the opportunist who steps in and puts his party mates in the position of suddenly flanking a bad guy.
Prior to this concept gelling, this is what I've done with him so far:
Level 2
Human
Str 20
Dex 15
Con 16
INT 12
WIS 14
Cha 9
Rage Ability: Intimidating Glare
Feats:
Power Attack
Intimidating Prowess
Power Attack
Flaw (3.5 concept allowed by my GM):
Uncontrollable Rage
Weapons: He started out with shortspears and a battleaxe, then he discovered the Halberd.
I'm committed to Barbarian as a class through Level 5 for the Uncanny Dodge 2, and I'm interested in the Unexpected Attack Rage power at level 8.
Thoughts?
You may want to look into combat maneuver feats. A raging Barbarian with combat maneuver feats is going to be the best PC at maneuvers, and they're good at messing with the enemy. If you're looking to move people around the battlefield, Improved Bull Rush (later, Greater Bull Rush for the AoOs) and Strength Surge for a later rage power (it's not so good at low levels) may be good for you. Take a look and see if it would work.
Intimidating is classic and good, even better if you can get another party member to synergize.
Good stuff. Definitely working on the Indimidation. was looking for some way to not base it on CHA.
Bump
You should check out the knockback rage power. Also what is your third feat Power Attack is listed twice.
Second on the knockback, with some foresight, you can combine it with strength surge. Batters up any one?
You should check out the knockback rage power. Also what is your third feat Power Attack is listed twice.
Sorry -- Combat Reflexes
Also, based on http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/guisarmTripAndAoO, I'm considering rearming him with a Guisarm.
Also, based on http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/guisarmTripAndAoO, I'm considering rearming him with a Guisarm.
Don't forget the spiked gauntlets for close-quarters fighting.
Also, based on http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/guisarmTripAndAoO, I'm considering rearming him with a Guisarm.Don't forget the spiked gauntlets for close-quarters fighting.
Nasssssty, evil evil.
I like.
You may want to look into combat maneuver feats. A raging Barbarian with combat maneuver feats is going to be the best PC at maneuvers, and they're good at messing with the enemy. If you're looking to move people around the battlefield, Improved Bull Rush (later, Greater Bull Rush for the AoOs) and Strength Surge for a later rage power (it's not so good at low levels) may be good for you. Take a look and see if it would work.
Intimidating is classic and good, even better if you can get another party member to synergize.
Trying to find a list of said feats....
You should check out the knockback rage power. Also what is your third feat Power Attack is listed twice.Second on the knockback, with some foresight, you can combine it with strength surge. Batters up any one?
I definitely like knockback. Also find Terrifying howl interesting -- especially since not only do I already have Intimidating Glare, but my other character is a bard.
Yet another bump
Lunge and Cleave? Or cleave and a reach weapon with careful use of 5-foot steps?
Perhaps Improved Overrun to get into position.
EDIT: and stand still. It works very well with combat reflexes.
Lunge and Cleave? Or cleave and a reach weapon with careful use of 5-foot steps?
Perhaps Improved Overrun to get into position.EDIT: and stand still. It works very well with combat reflexes.
Definitely Cleave. I looked at lunge, but it only applies to attacks youi make until the end of your turn, so it would be useless for the AoO's. A reach weapon is a better option.
I'll look into Stand Still.
If you're playing a disruptor, check out the feat Step Up. messes with casters and meleers(?) alike
If you're playing a disruptor, check out the feat Step Up. messes with casters and meleers(?) alike
Only problem with it is it doesn't work well with reach weapons, because it specifically states that you have to end up adjacent to the foe that triggered it.
true dat.
still very useful vs. casters/monsters with annoying spell-like abilities.
Equally valid point. I'll definitely bear it in mind. Problem now is I'm racking up a big list of good ideas. I'll have to assemble a list.
re: Stand Still, it's convenient because A) you don't need Combat Expertise and 13 INT, B) you don't need a Trip Weapon, C) it works against all Size opponents, D) it doesn't suffer the "stability" bonuses vs Trip that multi-legged creatures and Dwarves get, and E) it's pre-Req Combat Reflexes is one it sounds like you'd already take with the 'area lock down/all-comers multi-opponent fighter' concept. Down-side: it ONLY applies to threatened adjacent squares on AoOs from movement, so no reach weapons and it's dependent on your opponent provoking movement AoO's.
It's worth considering that Knockback (using weapon bonus + reach) in conjunction with Strength Surge can offer similar movement control possibilities as Trip/Stand Still: simply disrupting enemies' movement will often waste their round's action and knocking them into a solid object results in them tripped as well. Basically, it's a very versatile combo, and works with any weapon/ reach. Taking Greater Bull-Rush will make you even better at this tactic and allow your allies to take AoO's on the foes you're knocking past them :-)
Lunge is still good with Reach Weapons, because another 5' can let you Full Attack when you couldn't or let you Cleave or Great Cleave when you couldn't, besides allowing you to attack from the limit of a monster's reach so you don't have to provoke an AoO to close with them. (Maxing Acrobatics for Tumble is a good choice, but you're not going to have the best DEX so Tumble isn't something to RELY on, either) Lunge also lets you attack with an Animal Fury Bite at 10' while Full Attacking with a Pole-Arm.
With the idea of opportunist team-work, you might look at the Teamwork Feats in the APG Beta preview, there's ones that let you switch places with a Team-mate and another that let's you take an AoO when a Flank partner takes one (or something similar, I don't have it at hand). They require an ally to also have the Feat in order to work, but it looks like Inquisitors or Cavaliers will get them, and if you have a Rogue in your party they would probably like alot of them too.
Equally valid point. I'll definitely bear it in mind. Problem now is I'm racking up a big list of good ideas. I'll have to assemble a list.
Why not use the no escape rage power instead? Does about the same thing and lets you follow them the whole way.
Why not use the no escape rage power instead? Does about the same thing and lets you follow them the whole way.
What is the deal with No Escape? Is it an Errata that it doesn't apply to 5' Steps (or plain/Tumble Move Actions)?
It just seems wierd that it's name is "No Escape" but in actual practice it's just "No Escape... Except for the most common means of withdrawing from threat and then casting". If it was Errata'd to include all means of escape (rather than just the Withdraw action), I'd definitely recommend it, but as-is it seems big enough a hole that I'd just say your Feats are better spent getting Improved Grapple.
OK, so based on the input I got from everyone, as well as a few ideas of my own, this is what I've come up with for a build. How does it look so far?
Currently he's at level 2. The pertinent info is above. The projected build goes like this:
Level 3: Barbarian 3. Feat: Cleave
Level 4: Barbarian 4 Rage Power: Knockback Ability Increase: Dex
Level 5: Barbarian 5 Feat: Improved Bull Rush
Level 6: Barbarian 6 Rage Power: Strength Surge
Level 7: Fighter 1 Feat: Stand Still, Bonus Feat: Great Cleave
Level 8: Barbarian 7 Ability Boost: CHA (Will help with the intimidation)
Level 9: Barbarian 8 Rage Power: Intimidating Howl, Feat: Greater Bull Rush
evel 10: Fighter 2 Bonus Feat: Step Up
OK, so based on the input I got from everyone, as well as a few ideas of my own, this is what I've come up with for a build. How does it look so far?
Currently he's at level 2. The pertinent info is above. The projected build goes like this:
Level 3: Barbarian 3. Feat: Cleave
Level 4: Barbarian 4 Rage Power: Knockback Ability Increase: Dex
Level 5: Barbarian 5 Feat: Improved Bull Rush
Level 6: Barbarian 6 Rage Power: Strength Surge
Level 7: Fighter 1 Feat: Stand Still, Bonus Feat: Great Cleave
Level 8: Barbarian 7 Ability Boost: CHA (Will help with the intimidation)
Level 9: Barbarian 8 Rage Power: Intimidating Howl, Feat: Greater Bull Rush
Level 10: Fighter 2 Bonus Feat: Step Up
I'm pretty sure I like this group of feats and Rage Powers, I'm just not sure of the order.
I would consider taking Knockback right away. At low levels Combat Maneuvers are really slightly easier, given low BAB and typical opponent stats vs. your higher Rage score. It's great because it happens for free ON TOP of damage you do, and if you have a Reach weapon you can prevent them attacking you at all if you can make an AoO against them as they close. Just remember every time that happens to recite aloud: "Rage Powers Suck..." ;-)
I'm not the biggest fan of the Intimidation Rage Powers, though if you have Bards/ other Casters/ Dazzling Display'ers that can escalate Fear it can work out decent... It just feels like a side-show to the Barb's main schtick and there's other Powers that I prefer to take (Knockback, Animal Fury...) The only wonky thing is that Intimidating Howl DOESN'T use your Intimidate check, just BAB+STR but the other Intimidating Glare does use the skill, so you're really pumping the skill just for one aspect that eventually becomes almost a wasted Rage Power (esp. since this tactic only looks really good when you have an ally to also apply Intimidate/Fear effects).
I would consider taking Knockback right away. At low levels Combat Maneuvers are really slightly easier, given low BAB and typical opponent stats vs. your higher Rage score. It's great because it happens for free ON TOP of damage you do, and if you have a Reach weapon you can prevent them attacking you at all if you can make an AoO against them as they close. Just remember every time that happens to recite aloud: "Rage Powers Suck..." ;-)
I'm not the biggest fan of the Intimidation Rage Powers, though if you have Bards/ other Casters/ Dazzling Display'ers that can escalate Fear it can work out decent... It just feels like a side-show to the Barb's main schtick and there's other Powers that I prefer to take (Knockback, Animal Fury...) The only wonky thing is that Intimidating Howl DOESN'T use your Intimidate check, just BAB+STR but the other Intimidating Glare does use the skill, so you're really pumping the skill just for one aspect that eventually becomes almost a wasted Rage Power (esp. since this tactic only looks really good when you have an ally to also apply Intimidate/Fear effects).
Thanks for the input.
Unfortunately we're already playing the characters as built so far, so the first two levels are committed to per the DM I won't be ABLE to take knockback until Level 4, but it's definitely the next Rage Power in line. I already had a reach weapon in mind (The Guisarm), and already have Combat Reflexes (How did I overlook that Feat for all these years?).
a good chuckle @ the "Rage Powers Suck" snark.
As for the intimidating Rage Powers, I already took Intimidating Glare, so there you go. And the Intimidating Prowess Feat helps nicely there. Also, we DO have a Bard in the party (MY other character, as a matter of fact -- small gaming group, so two characters each). And between my Intimidating Glare and the Bard's capabilities, the ability to make a good portion of our enemies suddenlt flee (if only temporarily) is DEFINITELY a "Disruption" in their plans.
It'll be neat when the Bard is Inspiring Competence on your Barbarian's Intimidate checks, then hitting them with some new fear effects. Muhahahaha!!!!!
Is Perform (cackle) going to be in the advanced books? A lot of the guys forget about the laugh; this is about standards.
It'll be neat when the Bard is Inspiring Competence on your Barbarian's Intimidate checks, then hitting them with some new fear effects.
Run away! Run away!
Muhahahaha!!!!!
Is Perform (cackle) going to be in the advanced books? A lot of the guys forget about the laugh; this is about standards.
It's all about the details.