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Here's a situation that happened last game session: a PC is grappling a bad guy. The bad guy breaks the grapple and flies away. Does the movement of the bad guy provoke from the PC when the bad guy leaves the 5-foot square adjacent to the PC?
I'm conflicted about this. Based on the turn-by-turn flow of combat, both combatants lose the grappled condition when one breaks loose. And the rules say that if you take any other action during your turn, the first 5-foot square you leave still provokes. (So I gave the PC the AOO.)
Part of what was happening involved the bad guy beating his wings furiously while grappled, so he continued to remain 5 feet above the PC during the grapple exchange. In addition, the bad guy had greater invisibility going and AOOs cannot be taken against invisible creatures. Except the PC also has blindsense (from the Dragon Disciple PrC).
So...
1. Does breaking a grapple mean you've token an action and therefore moving more than 5 feet would provoke? What about the above situation with invisibility and blindsense factored in?
And while I've got your attention... :)
2. The rules say that a grapple check allows you to move your opponent. What kind of movement is that? What about moving the opponent through an area where it would have to squeeze? If the creature chooses not to squeeze, can it prevent itself from moving through that area?
3. While a grappler is moving the opponent, can they go through squares occupied by other creatures? Allies? Foes?
4. Does the additional grapple check (and bonus) for being moved into a dangerous position apply only at the end of the move or for each dangerous square passed over?
Giving the AoO was correct RAW (although since a grappler can end a grapple as a free action, if he does nothing else but move that turn he's free to take a withdraw action to avoid AoOs)
2. The rules say that a grapple check allows you to move your opponent. What kind of movement is that? What about moving the opponent through an area where it would have to squeeze? If the creature chooses not to squeeze, can it prevent itself from moving through that area?
A fine opportunity for the DM to give a -2 circumstance penalty to the grapple check for unfavorable conditions (the tight quarters helps the grappled character resist being moved).
3. While a grappler is moving the opponent, can they go through squares occupied by other creatures? Allies? Foes?
Presuming they could otherwise (you can always move through an ally's square if they choose to let you through, for example, or large enough creatures can move through others' spaces).
4. Does the additional grapple check (and bonus) for being moved into a dangerous position apply only at the end of the move or for each dangerous square passed over?
I'd give them the grapple check as a free action immediately before they would enter the dangerous area, whether that is at the beginning, partway through or just before the end.
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Giving the AoO was correct RAW (although since a grappler can end a grapple as a free action, if he does nothing else but move that turn he's free to take a withdraw action to avoid AoOs)
This was the "grapplee" who had to make a check to break it. No no free action.
You'd still allow the AOO against an invisible creature? Is that because the other combatant had blindsense?
A fine opportunity for the DM to give a -2 circumstance penalty to the grapple check for unfavorable conditions (the tight quarters helps the grappled character resist being moved).
Hmm, great idea!
3. While a grappler is moving the opponent, can they go through squares occupied by other creatures? Allies? Foes?Presuming they could otherwise (you can always move through an ally's square if they choose to let you through, for example, or large enough creatures can move through others' spaces).
So how does that work? Let's say the PC is grappling a monster. They want to move half their speed, so they make a grapple check and succeed. As they're moving, the monster (who is Large) must pass through squares that belong to its allies, but also through squares that belong to the PC's allies. Can they still do this?
From a realistic standpoint, I'm thinking that moving a grappled creature through any kind of occupied square should be treated as a bull rush (or overrun) attempt against anyone in those squares.
4. Does the additional grapple check (and bonus) for being moved into a dangerous position apply only at the end of the move or for each dangerous square passed over?I'd give them the grapple check as a free action immediately before they would enter the dangerous area, whether that is at the beginning, partway through or just before the end.
Okay. And if there are multiple squares do they get multiple "free action grapple checks"?
I guess the question is, how close is the moving-a-grapple situation to something like the tumbling-past-multiple-opponents situation? In the latter, there is a +2 to the DC for each additional opponent to represent that it becomes more difficult when there are more opponents. Is a grapple easier to break as more dangerous squares are traversed? Does it pump up the adrenalin more than a single square would? (I would think most sane creatures would likely panic if wrestled over a pool of lava or something and that would definitely cause an adrenalin rush!)
I think we should take a look at Blindsense and BlindSight. Blindsense should allow an AoO with a 50% miss chance, Blindsight would allow an AoO and normal vision would not allow an AoO at all due only to movement.
Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
Format: blindsense 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
Blindsight (Ex) This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature's description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.
Format: blindsight 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
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I think we should take a look at Blindsense and BlindSight. Blindsense should allow an AoO with a 50% miss chance, Blindsight would allow an AoO and normal vision would not allow an AoO at all due only to movement.
Blindsense should not allow AoO's. You can't make an attack of opportunity against a creature you cannot see. Blindsense only allows you to locate the square a creature is in, not see it, and still has the same miss chance, and other penalties, as any other blind creature.
Blindsight, however, allows you to maneuver and fight as well as a sighted creature. It would get an AoO.
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Heh-heh, now you see why I was questioning my own ruling! :)
I think I agree that blindsense should not allow AOOs given how the rules seem to indicate the reason an invisible creature can't be attacked with an AOO is that opponents can't see it. That would still seem to apply to creatures with blindsense.
(In my situation, the grappler had blind-fight so he wouldn't take any penalties and would get to roll the miss chance twice. But if he wasn't allowed the AOO in the first place...)
But it sounds like we're agreed that as soon as the grapplee breaks the grapple, all creatures involved in the grapple no longer have that condition. Right? And therefore they can take AOOs against nearby creatures, should they provoke.