So, I remember reading somewhere that if an opponent wasn't aware of your attack, he would be caught off guard, thus loosing his Dex bonus to Ac and being Sneak attacked.
I can't find this anywhere, and I'm pretty sure that I didn't come up with that alone.
The scenario would be a guy with quick draw a hidden weapon and pretty big bluff, talking to someone, suddenly he draws his weapon and stabs him, or something similar to this.
Anyone know of a rule regarding this? (Not talking about feint here, that's a whole different matter, and the quick draw and hidden weapon aren't even an issue with this.
Isn't this just a surprise round?
Combined with the fact that everyone is flat-footed until their first turn in combat (unless they have Uncanny Dodge), I think the rules quite nicely support this anti-social behavior you describe. No DEX to AC, automatic sneak attack, and you can do crazy stuff without even provoking an AoO if you want.
A surprise round would cover that scenario. With Quick Draw, I would say the attacker would start the surprise round with a standard action. To determine if the opponent is caught unaware, I would roll a Perception check opposed to the slight of hand check the attacker made to hide the weapon. If the Perception check fails, the attacker gets a surprise round, otherwise the defender notices the weapon in time to put up a defense and initiative for regular combat is rolled.
I know there were feats that did this before. But I do believe the rules suport this today without those.
So, I remember reading somewhere that if an opponent wasn't aware of your attack, he would be caught off guard, thus loosing his Dex bonus to Ac and being Sneak attacked.
I can't find this anywhere, and I'm pretty sure that I didn't come up with that alone.
The scenario would be a guy with quick draw a hidden weapon and pretty big bluff, talking to someone, suddenly he draws his weapon and stabs him, or something similar to this.
Anyone know of a rule regarding this? (Not talking about feint here, that's a whole different matter, and the quick draw and hidden weapon aren't even an issue with this.
It's possible to do. Some DMs nevertheless ask a bluff check to hide your murderous intentions to your target, and I think it's a good thing.
But remember that quickdraw a hidden weapon is a move action. So the character uses his surpise round to quickdraw his weapon and then roll initiative to attack. If he rolled low, he has lost his opportunity to sneak attack his target and he will need to feint his target to get a sneak attack.
Quickdraw a weapon that is not hidden is a free action and that allows your PC to attack in the surpise round. Using your fists is also an alternative, there's a good reason if monk/rogue is a perfect path for assassin !!
I don't think this would be considered a surprise round.
Both people are aware of each other if they are talking to each other. Thus, no surprise round.
I think this would best be handled by a mix of initiative checks, stealth vs perception checks (to secretly draw a weapon), and possibly feinting.
A creature with a high Initiative check would be much more likely to respond quickly to another creature thats standing in front of it in plain view that takes an aggressive action. Thats what initiative is a measure of really, how quickly a creature responds to danger.
I don't think this would be considered a surprise round.
Both people are aware of each other if they are talking to each other. Thus, no surprise round.
I think this would best be handled by a mix of initiative checks, stealth vs perception checks (to secretly draw a weapon), and possibly feinting.
A creature with a high Initiative check would be much more likely to respond quickly to another creature thats standing in front of it in plain view that takes an aggressive action. Thats what initiative is a measure of really, how quickly a creature responds to danger.
OK, OK, technically the surprise rules do talk about "being aware of each other". However, this is what it says (bolded parts mine):
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.
Now, to me, words like "combatants" and "opponents" seem to imply that there is combat going on. Two guys standing around chatting are not in combat. Sure, they are aware of each other, but they are not "combatants aware of their opponents".
One of them, the sneaky jerk who plans to gork the other guy without fair warning, is a combatant aware of his opponent - because that's how he sees the situation. To him, this conversation is just a big old prelude to combat. The other guy, the clueless schmuck just chatting about the weather, is not seeing himself as a combatant nor seeing his fellow conversationalist as an opponent.
Hence, only one of these guys constitues a "combatant aware of his opponent" so it still falls into the printed definition of Surprise. Yeah, sure, maybe that is RAI rather than RAW, but it's not like I'm reading words that aren't printed there in the rules.
I don't think this would be considered a surprise round.
Both people are aware of each other if they are talking to each other. Thus, no surprise round.
I think this would best be handled by a mix of initiative checks, stealth vs perception checks (to secretly draw a weapon), and possibly feinting.
A creature with a high Initiative check would be much more likely to respond quickly to another creature thats standing in front of it in plain view that takes an aggressive action. Thats what initiative is a measure of really, how quickly a creature responds to danger.
OK, OK, technically the surprise rules do talk about "being aware of each other". However, this is what it says (bolded parts mine):
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.Now, to me, words like "combatants" and "opponents" seem to imply that there is combat going on. Two guys standing around chatting are not in combat. Sure, they are aware of each other, but they are not "combatants aware of their opponents".
One of them, the sneaky jerk who plans to gork the other guy without fair warning, is a combatant aware of his opponent - because that's how he sees the situation. To him, this conversation is just a big old prelude to combat. The other guy, the clueless schmuck just chatting about the weather, is not seeing himself as a combatant nor seeing his fellow conversationalist as an opponent.
Hence, only one of these guys constitues a "combatant aware of his opponent" so it still falls into the printed definition of Surprise. Yeah, sure, maybe that is RAI rather than RAW, but it's not like I'm reading words that aren't printed there in the rules.
I agree with that. Maybe that's where I got it from.