(Eventually) making a homebrew Middle-Earth setting for a (private, unofficial) campaign; too ambitious?

[Yucale]

I'm a major Tolkien fan, and I've read the trilogy, the Hobbit,(both quite a few times) The Silmarillion (1 1/2 times), a few other stories by him not set in Middle-Earth, and I'm 1/4 of the way through the Book of Lost Tales. Of course I've seen the movies, and I've half-started learning Elvish. I'm toying with the idea of making a PFRPG-compatible Middle-Earth campaign for my group's private use. If I do embark on this quest (NOT an overstatement), it'd be a while in coming. The thing is, I'm not sure if I can. To do Tolkien's world justice, I wouldn't be able to just make a map of Beleriand and call it good. There'd be a lot of stuff to sort out. It would be fun, but it'd be a lot of work and I want to do both Middle-Earth and Pathfinder justice. (Any tips from people who have at least read the trilogy would be very welcome).

[Yucale]

One problem would be the elves. To keep it true to LotR, they would end up as the most powerful player race, not even going into immortality. Say I figured out bonuses and stuff. would elves still get penalties/bonuses for aging, and when would they get them? Also, should I make minor subrace variations for the different kindred? The High Elves, Grey Elves, and Dark Elves(NOT drow).

[Yucale]

The player races I've thought of including (not including variations on the elves, and possibly humans);

humans (same as in the Core Rulebook)
half orcs (same as in the Core Rulebook)
halflings (called hobbits. pretty much the same as in the Core Rulebook. possibly low-light vision?)
dwarfs (dwarves, pretty much the same, but with no darkvision)
elves (possible changes mentioned in previous post)
maybe gnomes. if so, they'd be very, very rare. in the Book of Lost Tales fay-like creatures were mentioned, and a rather vague character named Tinfang rather fit the PFRPG description of a gnome.
Dunedain. while actually a human subrace, possibly similar to half-elves?

half-elves exist, of course, but they're very rare and tend to be almost the same as pureblooded elves. (see Elrond, others)

monsters;

Azta=Maiar?

The gods= the Valar

[Callous Jack]

Yucale wrote:

One problem would be the elves. To keep it true to LotR, they would end up as the most powerful player race, not even going into immortality. Say I figured out bonuses and stuff. would elves still get penalties/bonuses for aging, and when would they get them? Also, should I make minor subrace variations for the different kindred? The High Elves, Grey Elves, and Dark Elves(NOT drow).

Bear in mind that while many Elves were powerful, there was also some powerful humans in the stories, specifically Beren, Hurin, Tuor, and especially Turin. My advice would be to play in the time of the Numenoreans, they reached the top as far as humans could go and yet the Elves were still very powerful under Gil-Galad.

Also, I do think you should break the Elves into subraces; the Noldor, Teleri, Sindar and Avari. The Nandor might be worth doing too.

It's funny you mention Gnomes as the Noldor were called that at one point early on in Tolkien's notes.

[Shar Tahl]

I would suggest getting an old copy of Middle Earth Roleplaying. You would then be able to compare the stat bonuses of all the different elves other races. I have it if you would like some of the bonus listed.

[Shar Tahl]

There would be no racial balance if you want to keep it true to the world. It would be up to the DM to allow certain ones. Elves would definitely have an advantage over the mannish races.

The rules have 6 stats that line up well with the PFRPG stats. There are also Essence (Arcane) resistance, Channeling (divine) resistance, and Poison and disease resistance.

[Evil Lincoln]

Are you a perfectionist?

If no: Go ahead, have a ball.

If yes: Don't do it! You can waste a lifetime trying to make a Middle-Earth setting feel authentic. Even Tolkien himself wasn't satisfied with it before his death. I tried to set up a Middle Earth campaign, worked on it for a number of years until it just collapsed under its own weight. Counter-intuitively, Middle Earth is a poor RPG setting for a number of reasons.

If you're only planning on dabbling, however, I say go for it.

[Eyolf The Wild Commoner]

Making homebrew stuff can be fun, just don't let it consume you ><

[Marc Radle]

May I recommend that you consider using the Spell-less Ranger variant from Kobold Quarterly? Aragorn was one of the archtypes I was very much trying to invoke in the class - he is why I included class features like natures healing in fact.

Heck, the tag line right after the article's title is "Aragorn didn't cast spells!"

[gigglestick]

One other thing to check before you run this...

Make sure your players are at least familiar with ME and let them know any changes between your version and the movies...as trudging through the books can be a long, frustrating task for some readers.

Back in 1990, one of my GMs ran Midde Earth Role Playing (MERP) for our college group. I was the only one of the 5 players to have read any of the books.

So there was no reverence for any of the characters, tropes, or areas.

(At one point, through some bad GMing, the party ended up meeting Bilbo in the time period between the Hobbit and FOTR. He was an annoying twit- we all hated hobbits in general after meeting a few - and so the group got him drunk and rolled him. Again, I was the only one who knew that Bilbo Baggins was an important character. Anyway, now the party had this cool magic sword, a nifty suit of elven chain, and this odd Ring of Invisibility...The Gm had a coniption fit and threatened to end the game then and there if the party didn't immediately return the ring and gear AND apologise to Bilbo.

Personally, I think he missed a great opportunity. After all, once the party has the ring, NOW there's a decent quest...and there are 3 books detailing what happens along the way.

Anyway, we did return the ring, though the bard tattooed something offensive on Bilbo's forehead while he slept off the drink. Like I said we really hated hobbits. And I think they did it to annoy the GM, who was treating the books like sacred texts. Ah, good times...)

In other words, this is a great idea (I actually DO like Middle Earth as a RPG world and I loved the MERP games) but make sure that your players understand the world and make sure that you are prepared to have them piddle all over it from time to time. Nothing can be sacred with players....

[Eyolf The Wild Commoner]

Of course Aragorn never cast spells.. He was only a lvl 5 multiclass.

http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html

Quote:

So what can we conclude form this? Aragorn is about 5th level.

And since Aragorn is one of the most remarkable individuals in all of Middle Earth, this would imply that Middle Earth is a place largely like our own world: People who achieve 5th level are uniquely gifted and come along but once in a generation.

Does that seem like a proper description of Middle Earth? It does. Tolkien was crafting a false mythology – a forgotten epoch of our own world. Thus the people in it are much like the people we know, although they live in a world of heroes and magic.

(For the record, I’d probably model Aragorn as a Rgr1/Ftr1/Pal3. That gives you the tracking, lay on hands, and quantifies his ineffable ability to instill courage in those around him. Use one of the feat selections for Skill Focus (Survival) and you’re still left with another three feat selections for the final tweaking.)

[Yucale]

Shar Tahl wrote:

I would suggest getting an old copy of Middle Earth Roleplaying. You would then be able to compare the stat bonuses of all the different elves other races. I have it if you would like some of the bonus listed.

If you could list the bonuses, that'd be great, thanks.

[Yucale]

Callous Jack wrote:

Yucale wrote:

One problem would be the elves. To keep it true to LotR, they would end up as the most powerful player race, not even going into immortality. Say I figured out bonuses and stuff. would elves still get penalties/bonuses for aging, and when would they get them? Also, should I make minor subrace variations for the different kindred? The High Elves, Grey Elves, and Dark Elves(NOT drow).

Bear in mind that while many Elves were powerful, there was also some powerful humans in the stories, specifically Beren, Hurin, Tuor, and especially Turin. My advice would be to play in the time of the Numenoreans, they reached the top as far as humans could go and yet the Elves were still very powerful under Gil-Galad.

Also, I do think you should break the Elves into subraces; the Noldor, Teleri, Sindar and Avari. The Nandor might be worth doing too.

It's funny you mention Gnomes as the Noldor were called that at one point early on in Tolkien's notes.

I planned on doing the elves as subraces, that way if I still made them (elves) more powerful than the other races there would be some variation in racial choices.

I was going to do Dunedain instead of Numenoreans, setting the campaign in the Fourth Age (current events were simpler, and elves were by then rarer in ME anyways), but it does seem that taking your advice would broaden the "race".

[Yucale]

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

May I recommend that you consider using the Spell-less Ranger variant from Kobold Quarterly? Aragorn was one of the archtypes I was very much trying to invoke in the class - he is why I included class features like natures healing in fact.

Heck, the tag line right after the article's title is "Aragorn didn't cast spells!"

Sounds interesting, but I don't have access to that.

[Shar Tahl]

I will list them as written. The Middle Earth game system used percentile, so you divide the numbers by 5 to get the D20 equivalent.(put in parenthesis) I used the original stat names from the game as well. They match up fairly well.

Hobbit:

Strength: -20 (-4)
Agility: +15 (+3)
Constitution: +15 (+3)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: -5 (-1)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +50 (+10)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +20 (+4)
Poison Resistance: +30 (+6)
Disease Resistance: +15 (+3)

Umli:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +10 (+2)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: -5 (-1)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +20 (+4)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +5 (+1)
Disease Resistance: +5 (+1)

Dwarf:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: -5 (-1)
Constitution: +15 (+3)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: -5 (-1)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +40 (+8)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +10 (+2)
Disease Resistance: +10 (+2)

Wose (Wild Men):

Strength: +0 (+0)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +5 (+1)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: 0 (+0)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +20 (+4)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +0 (+0)
Disease Resistance: +0 (+0)

Man:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +0 (+0)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: 0 (+0)
Presence: +0 (+0)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +0 (+0)
Disease Resistance: +0 (+0)

Dunadan:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +10 (+2)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: 0 (+0)
Presence: +5 (+1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +5 (+1)
Disease Resistance: +5 (+1)

Half-Elf:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: +5 (+1)
Constitution: +5 (+1)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: 0 (+0)
Presence: +5 (+1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +5 (+1)
Disease Resistance: +50 (+10)

Silvan Elf(Wood Elf):

Strength: +0 (+0)
Agility: +10 (+2)
Constitution: +0 (+0)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: +5 (+1)
Presence: +5 (+1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +10 (+2)
Disease Resistance: +100 (+20)

Sindar Elf (Grey Elf):

Strength: +0 (+0)
Agility: +10 (+2)
Constitution: +5 (+1)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: +5 (+1)
Presence: +10 (+2)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +10 (+2)
Disease Resistance: +100 (+20)

Noldor Elf(High Elf):

Strength: +0 (+0)
Agility: +15 (+3)
Constitution: +10 (+2)
Intelligence: 5 (+1)
Intuition: +5 (+1)
Presence: +15 (+3)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +10 (+2)
Disease Resistance: +100 (+20)

Half-Orc:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +5 (+1)
Intelligence: 0 (+0)
Intuition: +0 (+0)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +10 (+2)
Disease Resistance: +0 (+0)

Orc:

Strength: +5 (+1)
Agility: -5 (-1)
Constitution: +15 (+3)
Intelligence: -10 (-2)
Intuition: -10 (-2)
Presence: -10 (-2)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +20 (+4)
Disease Resistance: +5 (+1)

Uruk-hai:

Strength: +10 (+2)
Agility: +0 (+0)
Constitution: +20 (+4)
Intelligence: +0 (+0)
Intuition: -5 (-1)
Presence: -10 (-2)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +20 (+4)
Disease Resistance: +5 (+1)

Half-troll:

Strength: +10 (+2)
Agility: -5 (-1)
Constitution: +10 (+2)
Intelligence: -5 (-1)
Intuition: -5 (-1)
Presence: -5 (-1)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +15 (+3)
Disease Resistance: +5 (+1)

Troll:

Strength: +15 (+3)
Agility: -10 (-2)
Constitution: +15 (+3)
Intelligence: -15 (-3)
Intuition: -15 (-3)
Presence: -10 (-2)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +30 (+6)
Disease Resistance: +10 (+2)

Olog-hai:

Strength: +20 (+4)
Agility: -5 (-1)
Constitution: +15 (+3)
Intelligence: -5 (-1)
Intuition: -10 (-2)
Presence: -10 (-2)

Essence Resistance (Arcane): +0 (+0)
Channeling Resistance (Divine): +0 (+0)
Poison Resistance: +20 (+4)
Disease Resistance: +10 (+2)

[Marc Radle]

Yucale wrote:

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

May I recommend that you consider using the Spell-less Ranger variant from Kobold Quarterly? Aragorn was one of the archtypes I was very much trying to invoke in the class - he is why I included class features like natures healing in fact.

Heck, the tag line right after the article's title is "Aragorn didn't cast spells!"

Sounds interesting, but I don't have access to that.

It's issue 11 - you can get it right here in Paizo's store!

[Yucale]

Shar Tahl wrote:

I will list them as written. The Middle Earth game system used percentile, so you divide the numbers by 5 to get the D20 equivalent.(put in parenthesis) I used the original stat names from the game as well. They match up fairly well.

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Umli?

Dunadan should be Dunedain.
I assume strength=strength
agility=dexterity
con=con
int=int
intuition=wisdom
presence=charisma

Thanks for the stats

[Shar Tahl]

That is basically how the the stats would line up.

Here is the fluff on the Umli:

The Umli live in the Far North of north-central middle-earth, east of Lossoth. They are a race of short folk who apparently came from an ancient union of Men and Dwarves. Legends call then Half-dwarves.

[Shar Tahl]

Dunadan is the singular version.

[UnArcaneElection]

If anybody is planning to resurrect this project, somebody did a Google Maps of Middle Earth. (I wouldn't put it past Google to actually do something like this at some point.)

[LazarX]

Yucale wrote:

I'm a major Tolkien fan, and I've read the trilogy, the Hobbit,(both quite a few times) The Silmarillion (1 1/2 times), a few other stories by him not set in Middle-Earth, and I'm 1/4 of the way through the Book of Lost Tales. Of course I've seen the movies, and I've half-started learning Elvish. I'm toying with the idea of making a PFRPG-compatible Middle-Earth campaign for my group's private use. If I do embark on this quest (NOT an overstatement), it'd be a while in coming. The thing is, I'm not sure if I can. To do Tolkien's world justice, I wouldn't be able to just make a map of Beleriand and call it good. There'd be a lot of stuff to sort out. It would be fun, but it'd be a lot of work and I want to do both Middle-Earth and Pathfinder justice. (Any tips from people who have at least read the trilogy would be very welcome).

I can' tell you what you're capable of. I would suggest that you read some of the prior gamig work done on this such as MERP's setting and background material.

Or instead of trying to reinvent the wheel for Pathfinder, just get a copy of the One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7, the same folks that put out Doctor Who, Adventures in Time and Space.