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In the real world, without hands-on deities that give undeniable signs of their existence, we see syncretism (the merging of two religions into a new, hybrid) as an aspect of colonialism and cultural contact. Examples include the Greek Hermes being equated to the Roman Mercury, the Egyptian Amun becoming the Greek Zeus Ammon, or Amun becoming Amun-Re when encountering the other Nile deity Re. Before meeting, the resemblance between Hermes and Mercury may have been superficial, at best, but the differences were smoothed out as cultural contact continued. Neither Hermes nor Mercury seems to have minded.
In Golarion, however, the Gods show up, they've indicated some jealousy, but we still see signs of syncretism. The Ulfen deity Erastil is equated to the Stone Giant deity Estig, and the Garundi deity Gozreh is worshipped by the Avistan-native Cloud Giants as Ioz'om, the halfling gods are sidekicks to gods from separate pantheons. It raises the question of whether Estig and Erastil ARE the same, or if Erastil has subsumed Estig's duties, or something even more odd? When a human deity like Irori begins to see worship by Dwarves, does Irori create a new aspect that is a member of Torag's family, or are there new myths explaining his relationship to the Dwarven pantheon (and did those myths "really" happen on whatever reality the gods exist in?), or is Irori's worship independent of Toragian worship, and if so, do the Dwarven worshipers pick up other Vudrani customs, myths, and gods alongside their new god?
Pharasma has come out of Osirion, where I've no doubt she had a pantheon surrounding her, same as Taldor has Abadar, Shelyn, and Zon-Kuthon. What happened to those deities? When Pharasma is worshiped alongside Gorum, like in Brevoy, does the old Osirion god of war get turned into Gorum, or is there an entirely unique body of worship in Brevoy? do Brevic myths spontaneously appear in Osirion? The elven deity Curchanus was murdered by the demon Lamashtu, who is obviously not part of the original Elven pantheon - but is she now, since Lamashtu's myths have intersected with the elves'?
Following the development of syncretic beliefs is an important tool for tracking cultural history and the movements of people, and knowing how it takes place in Golarion can be extremely helpful in fleshing out the world for your players.
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It would be an interesting topic to see examined from some angle or another in one of the god articles. I can see it being hard to pull off right out of the box since most of the gods are definite entities with a good chunk of their history set in stone, though it has been seen that different people see them in different ways and that some of the gods have indeed changed with the times(Erastil no long being big on bloody rituals, for example).
It wouldn't break my heart to see Fandalandarra's worship hijacked by Shelyn. Ethnocentric snob.
I must say that when I started with Golarion dieties (RotRL) I expected the base 12 to exist under different interpretations by different cultures/races (Ex.: Irori to dwarves) but, to me, the various chosen domains of the "local" Clerics and their temples/churches/etc. where a form of representation for each interpretation of the deities that created various forms for the same deity.
I was slightly annoyed by the latter inclusion of significant numbers of specific deities for races but didn't think of a syncretism cultural option, shame on me. ;)
It seems to me that, in the world of golarion, it is implied that they would remain separate deities.
My reasoning for this is:
1) In the Cult of the Ebon Destroyer's thread, James Jacobs says " While Vudra is indeed the land of a thousand gods…" It's hard to have 1000 gods if they keep blending together.
2) Mortals can attain godhood. If it's possible to create new deities "from scratch", some overlap in areas of influence will likely occur.
3) Outsiders can attain godhood. Lamashtu was already mentioned above, but if I'm not mistaken (I may be mistaken on this), Asmodeus was a devil that also attained divinity in Golarion. He was not originally a deity. If enough people begin worshiping the same entity, the entity becomes a god. As above, with new gods being created, overlap and similarity between deities is bound to happen.
4) From a real-world perspective, Golarion seems to be a world designed to accommodate every type of game. Indeed, the designers seem to have gone out of their way to try and accommodate every type of fantasy game, from futuristic, to gothic, to eastern, to pulp fantasy. It seems a fair assumption that if the designers want to have many different genres, they would also want many different deities.
All of this is just my opinion.
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1) In the Cult of the Ebon Destroyer's thread, James Jacobs says " While Vudra is indeed the land of a thousand gods…" It's hard to have 1000 gods if they keep blending together.
You'd be surprised at how hard it is to keep an animist faith down to ONLY a thousand gods.
2) Mortals can attain godhood. If it's possible to create new deities "from scratch", some overlap in areas of influence will likely occur.
Of course. However, what does that do to regional faiths? Norgorber is worshiped in Taldor and Osirion, meaning that he is "part of" both sets of pantheons. However, Iomedae and Sarenrae are female deities of just warfare with light-oriented FX, one Taldan, one Osirioni - do Osirion priests claim that Iomedae is just how Sarenrae is worshiped by the Taldans? This means any myths pertaining to Norgorber and Iomedae become myths about Norgorber and Sarenrae, even if Norgorber and Sarenrae have never once met.
Desna is listed as a Varisian deity. She pre-dates Varisia - she pre-dates Thassilon, and humans in general! Desna was worshiped by the elves before their diaspora, as was Calistria. Desna somehow "became" Varisian because of the predominance of worship in that culture, while Calistria remained primarily Elven, despite Varisian worship. What does that mean to the faith and to the Goddesses themselves?
I don't mind overlap, and a "Big 20" syncretic pantheon like we see presented in the campaign setting makes sense in an old civilization with a few thousand more years of cross-cultural contact than we have. But Pharasma is now "The Death Goddess" - what happened to the hypothetical Ulfen, Taldan, and Elven death gods? Did they ever exist? Were Taldans aware of Pharasma before encountering Garund, but called her a different name, and the only syncretic element here is adopting her Garundi name? Is Zyphus the original Taldan death god, now demonized by the dominant cult of Pharasma? That's kind of exciting, to me, and puts the Gods back in their place as all-powerful beings that are still at the mercy of their worshipers, and the Outer Planes as changing regularly with the rise and fall of civilizations, but due to their nature, at the same time, they've always been the way the dominant civilization sees them.
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Sorry to Necro my own thread, but I continue to gnaw at the bones of this subject, and one thing is currently bugging me above all others -
Urgathoa is listed as a Varisian deity, but neither she nor Desna have ANY myths associated with each other, nor does Urgathoa have any myths involving Ghlaunder, which is really weird, since you'd think the Goddess of Disease and the God of Infection would have things to talk about; the only myth we know of with Urgathoa involving other Gods, obviously comes AFTER the Arodenate Big 20 pantheon has formed, since it namechecks Pharasma.
SKR, if you're reading this, please share a myth involving Urgathoa with the other Varisian deities when you do her extended write-up in one of the AP? Please?
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I just read about a syncretism (two gods being worshipped as one) in Golarion, but have no idea where... Grr. Now that's gonna bug me.
It would amuse me if Irori, Nethys and Urgathoa had an unofficial club for dieties who lifted themselves up by their own bootstraps, and those punks who took the Test of the Starstone are manifestly *not* invited.
Back when they became gods, you had to walk to school both ways, uphill, in the snow! Lazy kids have no idea how good they have it!
Just my wacky unhelpful vague hand waving opinion, but I think Gods given what they are, are perhaps beyond being fully perceived and understood by mortals - and therefore tight analysis of their exact histories is futile, as it can alter. Or in other words they can shift and change around, and dont have to particularly follow anything trivial like logic, given that the various laws of the universe, time et al may be more like suggestions than laws to those with the right power or right position ( but not enough to say, wipe every other major entity out to become the one and only god ).
Personally I am happy with thinking something along the lines of Neil Gaiman's Sandman Endless beings. Its more of an idea / force / belief that manifests, and whilst it can be very personal, and you can talk to them, they can sulk, have an opinion, like to wear a particularly kind of hat - and demand all their followers wear the same funky hats, at the same time they can be very vague, change, and yet still be the same thing - a representation of something greater.
The long and short of it, gods are gods, they are intimately connected with their myths and those that believe in them, and yet at the same time, they can embody ideals which are timeless and amorphous - they can split into seperate personalities, or combine into one.
Many faces, or just one.
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I just read about a syncretism (two gods being worshipped as one) in Golarion, but have no idea where... Grr. Now that's gonna bug me.
Was it Shimye-Magalla?
Gozreh is already a dual identity god/goddess. he/she may already be an example of incomplete syncretism.
Imagine two similiar deities, Goz and Rehya, both have similiar portfolios and each belonging to two seperate but related groups. Cultures meld, a thousand years goes by with the arguing over which one does what, boom goes the dynamite and we have a single diety instead of two (though arguments over gozreh as being symbolic of dualism, yin-yang or male-female dichotomy are persuasive)
That said, Nethys is a merging of two opposites (though as I understand, that's deliberate on his part)
Batts