Can you use the stealth skill and swim skill to avoid water-based creatures, or avoid detection from monsters on shore?
Thanks in advance.
my .02.
Bob vs Fish.
if Bob and Fish are both in the ocean and are swimming along, Bob needs some cover to hide. He can't simply declare hes "hiding". (well, he can, but without cover it has no effect).
The fish can see him. He can see the fish.
If he's on the bottom of the source of water and there is something to hide behind/around/under then he can try to hide.
Bob vs Orc.
if Bob is swimming and the orc is on the land, then teh water should provide some amount of cover for him to hide in. I'm not sure what the rules are for it, if any, but I would impose a a penalty directly relating to his swimming speed (if on the surface) to the Orc's ability to hear him. For visual- it would depend on how clear the water was. Very clear water is alot easier to see in, than very murky water. Alot of it falls to plain ole Dm adjudication though.
Stormwrack Might have some information on it, but I don't know. (and that was 3.5)
-S
Can you use the stealth skill and swim skill to avoid water-based creatures, or avoid detection from monsters on shore?
Thanks in advance.
To use stealth you need either cover or concealment. I would say a swimming character could use stealth, but only if the water is murky enough (or far enough away) to grant concealment or if theres objects he could hide behind.
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Using stealth underwater against other underwater creatures:
Stealth and Detection Underwater: How far you can see underwater depends on the water's clarity. As a guideline, creatures can see 4d8 × 10 feet if the water is clear, and 1d8 × 10 feet if it's murky. Moving water is always murky, unless it's in a particularly large, slow-moving river.
It's hard to find cover or concealment to hide underwater (except along the sea floor).
Using stealth underwater against creates on land:
Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.
In short, it is difficult to use stealth against other creatures underwater. If you are underwater, you can stealth the vast majority of the time against creatures on land (due to always having some form of cover).
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
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One other thing to note, unless you have a swim speed when you are swimming you move at 1/2 speed as a full round action or 1/4 speed as a move action. When you are using the stealth skill you move at half of your 'normal' speed. I assume that the two stack but I'm not sure it's clear. I read that as your 'normal' speed in this case would be your normal swim speed so stealth swimming is 1/4 speed as a full action and 1/8 speed as a move action.
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And I might be inclined to give a bonus on the Perception check to creatures that use water pressure to sense other creatures instead of sight (like 95% of aquatic creatures IRL do). I don't know what the qualification for that might be. It's not appropriate to give the bonus to all creatures with a swim speed or all creatures with a racial bonus on swim checks, so it'd have to be something else. Probably on a case-by-case basis.
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One other thing to note, unless you have a swim speed when you are swimming you move at 1/2 speed as a full round action or 1/4 speed as a move action. When you are using the stealth skill you move at half of your 'normal' speed. I assume that the two stack but I'm not sure it's clear. I read that as your 'normal' speed in this case would be your normal swim speed so stealth swimming is 1/4 speed as a full action and 1/8 speed as a move action.You can stealth at full speed with a -5 penalty.
Likewise many skills you can do accelerated. I know climb is one of them, but I don't think Swim was originally in the SRD so it might not have made it over to Pathfinder which based itself on the SRD.
Speed reductions are reasonably cumulative in this case, so I would go with 1/8 movement in the scenario you mention.
But I would not go with the lower of the two checks, but rather the DC of the swim check whatever that would be, if passed would allow the stealth check whatever that amounts to. I don't see a superlative success at swimming helping the stealth.
I don't know about superlative success... but swimming quietly is definitely tougher than normal swimming. Swimming poorly would be disaster for any stealth attempt. Imagine someone trying to dog paddle or staying under too long and gasping for breath. Water is just highly unforgiving WRT sneaking.