Voodoo Mike, seeing as how some people are bumping the article to keep it around, would you care to add this as an article to the Pathfinder Database? I'd even create a separate section for how-to articles for stuff like this.
Feel free to repost it wherever you'd like.
I agree speed effects mobility, Greatly. i think that 4 points for 40 speed sounds more reasonable.
Base speed changes drastically affect mobility, and for that reason I tend to give them costs that most race builders would consider unreasonable.
Remember that the guide is based around the "Feat = 4 points" concept, and that pricing racial features should be based around that idea (if they're going by this guide, of course). Use PF feats for comparison rather than 3.5 books, as well, because there is, frankly, a lot of varied crap in the bonus-books that were published.
What we do have is a feat that gives a 5 foot improvement in speed that is negated by medium armor or heavy load (Fleet - PCR p124). So, that's a 4 point ability. +20 base speed for 4 points seems, by that template, to be incredibly underpriced.
Keep in mind that even a 5 foot improvement to the base speed norm of 30 feet improves the armored speed of a character by 5 feet. The formula for encumbered speed has typically been 2/3 of the base speed, rounded up to the nearest multiple of 5. That'll give you the listed speeds, and is consistent with the 3.5 charts for armored speeds of faster and slower creatures. Thus, a 35 foot base speed results in a 25 foot armored speed.
If the intent is to build a race that is fast because it has the lower body of a horse, then maybe look at it with an eye to flavour, but also an eye to tactical balance. Can we make them fast without altering the tactical implications of using that race? Sure we can!
Lets look at the Run feat - it improves speed when running and gives some bonuses to skills related to running. In many ways this suits a Centaur better - horses are fast, yes, but their speed is related to running in fairly straight lines. Nobody envisions a horse ninja (well, nobody did until I mentioned it.. but put that mental image aside), so the speed is not related to agility and probably doesn't need to be involved in combat in any practical way.
So, instead of altering a 0ECL centaur's base speed, give them the equivalent of the Run feat, but make it a different racial ability that will stack with the Run feat. With both, the centaur can, when running flat out, run six times their normal speed (180 feet per round) when less encumbered, or as fast as an unencumbered human while wearing platemail... and keep their dex bonus the whole time, and getting a +8 to jump checks at the end of such a move.
Hell, you can even throw in an improvement to overland travel speed and consider it a "freebie" in the ability, since it won't really change anything, game-wise. If the party can't move that fast, the party as a whole will not be travelling any faster. If they CAN travel that fast because of mounts, the centaur would have been able to anyway had they not been a centaur.
And that'd be worth 4 points.
and centaur is monstrous humanoid whats the cost for that?
Bleg... just give it to them for 0 points if it has no effect beyond type. If it gives actual abilities, then price them out.
I agree with vodoomike, honestly, monstrous humanoid isn't immune to Charm person or hold person, it targets Humanoids which includes monstrous ones. So IF the centaur light doesn't have any racial levels theirs really no bonus... and having racial levels in any of the humanoids is honestly like having an NPC class unless you've got abilities to back up your levels (Hit dice). so yeah +0 works.
I agree with vodoomike, honestly, monstrous humanoid isn't immune to Charm person or hold person, it targets Humanoids which includes monstrous ones. So IF the centaur light doesn't have any racial levels theirs really no bonus... and having racial levels in any of the humanoids is honestly like having an NPC class unless you've got abilities to back up your levels (Hit dice). so yeah +0 works.
I'm fairly certain that being Monsterous Humanoid does, in fact, make you immune to spells that target only Humanoid creature types... I just don't think its a big deal as the spells it makes you immune to are those usually reserved for NPCs (your DM is a jerk if he takes your player out of the game for anything but plot reasons, and almost all of those spells do exactly that) and it also makes you unable to use the low-level Enlarge and Reduce spells.
I agree speed effects mobility, Greatly. i think that 4 points for 40 speed sounds more reasonable.Base speed changes drastically affect mobility, and for that reason I tend to give them costs that most race builders would consider unreasonable.
More is the key word there, lacking tone i think it sounded like i thought that 4 point = +10ft or worse +40ft for 4 points
Edit. i do think that +10ft is some where around 8 points
More is the key word there, lacking tone i think it sounded like i thought that 4 point = +10ft.
Could be. My point is that I wouldn't even say 4 points is sufficient for +5ft of base speed, because the feat that exists to improve base speed is only +5ft and has additional limitations that prevent it from affecting armoured speed.
More is the key word there, lacking tone i think it sounded like i thought that 4 point = +10ft.Could be. My point is that I wouldn't even say 4 points is sufficient for +5ft of base speed, because the feat that exists to improve base speed is only +5ft and has additional limitations that prevent it from affecting armoured speed.
i think of it as +10ft for 8 points, because fleet while giving a +5ft in light or no armor is a feat. It is one of the weaker ones, leading me to think of it as being worth 3 points, two 3s make a 6, +2 for a steady-like ability leaving us with 8.
Goblin (Civilized) Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Strength: Though not as fast as their savage counterparts, they are still quite agile. Their bodies are still weak, but they know how to present themselves better and are very intelligent in comparison. (+0 Points)
Small: Goblins are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a -1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks. (+0 Points)
Fast: Goblins are fast for their size, and have a base speed of 30 feet. (+0 Points)
Darkvision: Goblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet. (+2 Points)
Wary: Goblins gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC. (+4 Points)
Blend In: Goblins receive a +2 racial bonus on Disguise and Stealth skill checks. (+2 Points)
Skilled: Goblins gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level. (+2 Points)
Weapon Familiarity: Goblins treat any weapon with the word "goblin" in its name as a martial weapon. (+0 Points)
Languages: Goblins begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Goblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of these bonus languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Gnoll, Gnome, Halfling, Orc. Unlike most Goblins, this variety is not illiterate. (+0 Points)(10 Points Total)
What do you think?
I certainly have no issues with the point layout - I do think that represents a 10 point race. What I would suggest is to give some thought to the pigeon-holing this race represents. Pretty much every single racial feature screams "Rogue", which is usually a red flag. It is ultimately up to the DM, of course:
The basic "urban" goblin ends up with:
+3 AC (+1 Dex, +1 Dodge, +1 Size)
+2 Ranged/Finesse (+1 Dex, +1 Size)
+6 to Stealth (+4 Size, +2 Racial)
+2 skill points per level (+1 Int, +1 Feat)
The drawback is the strength, but rogues will be taking Weapon Finesse (how many rogues do you know that don't?) and sneak attack will easily compensate for the -1 damage and the smaller weapon sizes.
Introducing this race makes it almost silly to make a rogue of any other race.
You might want to spread the racial bonuses around so they don't all go toward supporting one base class's abilities and strengths... or not, depending on how you like to run your campaign.
A long time ago some elves gained access to stereoids and clearasil - they bred true;
physically strong and comely, yet prone to catch all manner of weird diseases.
Medium: darkelves are Medium creatures, and have no
bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: darkelves have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: darkelves can see twice as far as humans
in conditions of poor illumination.
Elf Blood: Darkelves count as elves
for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities: Darkelves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against
enchantment spells and effects.
Weapon Familiarity: Darkelves are proficient with longswords and greataxes.
They treat any weapon with the
word “elf” in its name as a martial weapon.
Ferocity: Once per day, when a darkelves is brought
below 0 hit points, but not killed, he can fight on for one
more round as normal. At the end of his next turn,
unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls
unconscious and begins dying.
Languages: Darkelves begin play speaking Common
and Elven. Those With high Intelligence scores can choose etc...
Hi VoodooMike!
Are my "darkelves" balanced? My players hate 1/2 orks and this is intended as a replacement.
How would you calculate this build?
Uthuk Y'llan
+2 Constitution
Medium size
Normal speed
Snow vision: Uthuk Y'llan can see perfectly well in snowy conditions. They don't suffer any penalties to Perception checks while in snow.
Ferocity: Uthuk Y'llan can remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The character is still staggered and looses 1 hit point each round. A character with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Survivalist: Uthuk Y'llan gain +2 to their Survival checks
Cold tolerance: Uthuk Y'llan, have a high tolerance to cold and need only to do a Fortitude save once per hour under severe and extreme cold.
Immunity to Y'llan's Grace root addiction
Y'llan's Grace roots (drug)
Type: ingested (chew); Addiction: minor, Fortitude DC 20
Price: 50gp
Effect: 1d10 rounds; rage as per the spell
Effect: 1 hour; cold resistance 5
Damage: 1d2 Wis, special (see below)
Each time someone use a dose of Y'llan's Grace roots, he must roll a Fortitude save DC 20, +5 to DC for each additional dose while intoxicated. On a failed check, 1d6 bone spurs grows. Roll 1d6 for location of spurs (1,2: head; 3,4: spine; 5: right arm; 6: left arm)
Each spurs grow 1/2 an inch. If a spurs grow on an area where spurs are present, either a new spur appears, or an existing one grows by an additional 1/2 inch. Armor cannot be worn over body area where total spurs length exceed 2 inches. For every 2 inches of spurs add +1 enhancement bonus to damage while unarmed (max. +3), also for every 2 inches of spurs add -1 penalties to all charisma-based skill checks except for Intimidation while dealing with non-Uthuk Y'llan.
Also roots users suffer for these secondary effects based on the differences between the result of the Fortitude check and the check DC:
1-10: The character experience a sense of euphoria. The world takes a wonderful glow, and even the most horrific act appears strangely beautiful. This does not affect the rage at all and in fact turns battle into an exquisite, joyous dance.
11-15: The character experiences dangerous hallucinations. 1d6 illusory endemics appear (copies of real enemies, if there are any, otherwise they are copies of the character's allies) and the raging character must make a successful Will saves (DC 15) to avoid attacking one of the illusions.
16+: The character loses control of his rage and must attack the closest character, whether an enemy or an ally. After attacking this character, the raging character can make a Will save (DC 15) to stop raging. If the character fails the saving throw, he must continue attacking whoever is closest to him until he successfully makes the save.
If I stay by the book, Snow vision, Cold tolerance and immunity to Y'llan's Grace root addiction are all immunities, so 2 points each. Ferocity is a tuned down version of the Diehard feat so 4 points. Survivalist is 1 point.
When we add them all we get a total of 11. I don't feel the race is overpowered, I think it might even be underpowered...
Things like Fast Healing and Regeneration fall exactly [u]nowhere[/u] on the point scale. The guide is about creating ECL0 races, ultimately, and not about making another bad mistake like Savage Species.
d20 encounters are based around expenditure of resources between resting - for characters this means spells, ability uses, and hit points. A fighter that has an unlimited method for replenishing hit points between fights - one that does not expend his own or another party member's resources - is automatically stepping outside the design of the game, especially at level 1.
The entire guide can be summarized by the point juggling to adjust stats, idea of a feat being 4 points, and a base race being 10 points. At least read the FIRST post before demanding micromanagement of the point system - if there's anything left off the chart then you go make it up yourself and then when you present your race you get to see if other people agree or disagree about how you scored abilities around the 4-point feat concept.
Jit - I guess. I don't really get the idea behind the race but I don't see much issue with the layout of abilities. It'd look pretty pigeon-holey if not for the negative stat being constitution, though.. I think that helps keep it from being the "de facto" martial race.
Mordo - yeah your race looks pretty sparse. The ferocity you're using is better than that of the half-orc, however, so you may want to simply give them the Die Hard feat for free, or rename the racial ability. Snow vision isn't really worth any points unless your entire campaign is plagued with blinding snow that hampers characters all the time. Some abilities are nothing but fluff, even if in some really vague situation it confers a bit of a bonus. Cold tolerance as you've written it is maybe 1 point (with the above stipulations) and the immunity to the root addiction is... really I can't even say 1 point because addiction to that stuff seems like a bit of a non-issue. Again, it depends on your game world.
Mordo - yeah your race looks pretty sparse. The ferocity you're using is better than that of the half-orc, however, so you may want to simply give them the Die Hard feat for free, or rename the racial ability. Snow vision isn't really worth any points unless your entire campaign is plagued with blinding snow that hampers characters all the time. Some abilities are nothing but fluff, even if in some really vague situation it confers a bit of a bonus. Cold tolerance as you've written it is maybe 1 point (with the above stipulations) and the immunity to the root addiction is... really I can't even say 1 point because addiction to that stuff seems like a bit of a non-issue. Again, it depends on your...
Thanks, for the comments.
I certainly have no issues with the point layout - I do think that represents a 10 point race. What I would suggest is to give some thought to the pigeon-holing this race represents. Pretty much every single racial feature screams "Rogue", which is usually a red flag.
Yeah, the Rogue thing is the only real problem I see with the race. It honestly wasn't my intention to make the definitive Rogue race. It kind of just happened that way. I'll probably definitely get rid of Wary and Skilled, but I'm not sure what I should replace them with to spread my Goblin out to other classes. I'll have to think about it.
Oh, speaking of Skilled, I don't think anyone has brought this up, but don't you think you might have that a little under-priced? It's basically the Toughness feat, but for skills instead of HP. And considering that you can chose one bonus HP or one bonus Skill Rank per level of a favored class, I'd say the two values are more or less equal depending on the character. So maybe 1 bonus skill point per class level should be 4 Points and a feat of the player's choice should be 6 Points. Personally I don't see the versatility of choosing your own feat being worth double the usual cost of a feat ability, especially at first level.
Just a thought.
So the centaur light, hopefully Level Adjustment free, If someone could check to make sure everything's right and it all adds up appropriately. Not a hundred percent sure on how much Large is worth... Having read up on it, large long creatures don't get reach and the positives and negative balance out. But i could be wrong, anyway...
High Forest Centaur -Monstrous humanoid type
+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha - Centaurs are sturdy and Wise by nature, but tend to be Xenophobic and gruff towards other races. (0 points)
Large - Centaurs are Large Creatures and receive a -1 size penalty to their AC, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 size bonus to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a -4 size penalty to stealth. (I'm not sure on how many points this would be worth but 4-8?)
Spirited Sprinter - Centaurs have a base speed of 40 ft., and they are treated as if they possessed the Run Feat. (8 points)
Darkvision - Centaurs can see in the dark up to 60 ft. (2 points)
Undersized weapons - Although a centaur is a large creature, its upper torso is the same size as a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size. (-4 points)
Unique Physiology - Because of the centaurs unique body structure creating effective armor for them is more difficult then it is for the normal humanoid races. All armor's cost four times their normal amount and weight twice as much. (-4 points)
Fey Kin - Centaurs are children of the world and have close ties to the fey. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (nature) and +2 racial bonus to Survival Skill checks. (2 points)
Weapon Familiarity - Centaurs are Proficient with Longbows (including Composite Longbows), and the Lance. (1 point)
Note: i wanted to add one or to things but i figured i would check this out first.
Large - Centaurs are Large Creatures and receive a -1 size penalty to their AC, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 size bonus to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a -4 size penalty to stealth. (I'm not sure on how many points this would be worth but 4-8?)
Personally I thought it was a better idea to just make this version of Centaur smaller (medium size) and maybe even call it a Half-Centaur to rationalize the differences from the original monster. But if you do make them Large, I think the bonuses and disabilities balance out when weapon size (and probably also reach) are taken out of the equation. Actually, I'd maybe even give them negative points for being large with those benefits taken away.
Which is what i thought but i figured i had better check before finishing them up. Though i would like to know... Since they don't get reach (or larger weapons) would it just be zero? or would it be an actual negative? i still say it should be at LEAST a zero because as a large Quadruped creature, your carrying capacity is still 3x the normal amount (as per core). Though combat wise as a large creature they are flanked by more creatures. With all this i was thinking about adding:
Tough Hide - Centaurs Skin and hide are naturally tougher then normal, giving the centaur a +1 natural armor bonus. (maybe +2?)(2 points, 4 if +2?)
+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha - Centaurs are powerful, sturdy and Wise by nature, but tend to be Xenophobic and gruff towards other races. (2 points... maybe 4).
[b]Weapon Familiarity - Centaurs are Proficient with Longbows (including Composite Longbows), Shortbows (including Composite Shortbows), and the Lance. (1 point, possibly zero considering its only three)
K the stats maybe, maybe not could lean them too close to fighter types, don't want to pigeonhole them. But just thinking about it... would like to make them more nature inclined... and i kinda like the idea of making a playable centaur race for characters :)
Note: I might add something like the fiendish sorcery thing for Fey bloodline instead of the bonus to strength
+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha - Centaurs are powerful, sturdy and Wise by nature, but tend to be Xenophobic and gruff towards other races. (2 points... maybe 4).
Actually, that would cost 8 points. Add a new +2 bonus to a stat that lacks it in a category that already has a bonus.
Actually, that would cost 8 points. Add a new +2 bonus to a stat that lacks it in a category that already has a bonus.
Aah, so what would be the point bonus for something like this
Blood of Nature: Centaur sorcerers with the fey bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities. Centaur clerics with the Plant domain cast their Plant domain powers and spells at +1 caster level (? points [4 Maybe higher])
Creaturs of size Large automatically have 10ft reach regardless of the size of the weapons they wield, which is the bigger combat issue with them, rather than slightly more damage with the same weapon types.
You'll have to invent your own cost. I personally don't see sizes othe than Medium and Small being appropriate for ECL0 races. Once you move outside of that range you're effectively altering key aspects of the game, and forcing your DM to make significant changes to any adventures and locations they had come up with. Certainly I'd say it'd cose well more than 8 points... find me a fighter that wouldn't gladly spend two feats on a permanent reach increase, increased weapon damage, better CMB for a slew of maneuvers, and the potential to trample goblins and kobolds. Hell, I'd do it just for the kobold trampling, personally.
Saying that they can only use smaller weapons is not worth 4 points - how is it a 4 point disadvantage to be able to use the same weapons that all the normal (medium) races can?
Something that changes the cost of armor is not, in my opinion, worth points as high as 4 by any means. The cost of equipment is only really an issue early on - later in an adventurer's career the material cost of things like armor is going to be trivial - the real cost will come from the enchantments on the equipment, which are not affected by the size. I'd say its 1 point, maybe 2 if we're being generous.
A +1 AC bonus is 4 points - its on the original chart.
Skilled is a bit of a judgement call. I priced it based on the fact that it acts similar to the "favoured class" bonus, and the favoured class bonuses are not feat-worthy in themselves. Toughness is also similar to that, but gets front-loading (you get 3 levels worth of benefit even if you take it at level 1... which is the only time people take it, usually). I don't think Toughness is a particularly good feat, personally, and have only ever seen it taken at level 1, or by people who have it as a pre-requisite for something good.
That said, the feat-of-your-choice is the #1 reason that people opt to be human, from all the gaming groups I've ever played with. It is really the thing that made being human "cool" again. Because it appears to be extremely desirable, I opted to score it high like I did... to represent how much people like that ability, and to encourage people to leave it as a primarily human trait. Few people are up for spending that many points to add that feature to their race, because they're busy spending those points making their race different from humans ;)
So the centaur light, hopefully Level Adjustment free, If someone could check to make sure everything's right and it all adds up appropriately. Not a hundred percent sure on how much Large is worth... Having read up on it, large long creatures don't get reach and the positives and negative balance out. But i could be wrong, anyway...
High Forest Centaur -Monstrous humanoid type
+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha - Centaurs are sturdy and Wise by nature, but tend to be Xenophobic and gruff towards other races. (0 points)
Large - Centaurs are Large Creatures and receive a -1 size penalty to their AC, a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, a +1 size bonus to Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense, and a -4 size penalty to stealth. (I'm not sure on how many points this would be worth but 4-8?)
Spirited Sprinter - Centaurs have a base speed of 40 ft., and they are treated as if they possessed the Run Feat. (8 points)
Darkvision - Centaurs can see in the dark up to 60 ft. (2 points)
Undersized weapons - Although a centaur is a large creature, its upper torso is the same size as a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size. (-4 points)
Unique Physiology - Because of the centaurs unique body structure creating effective armor for them is more difficult then it is for the normal humanoid races. All armor's cost four times their normal amount and weight twice as much. (-4 points)
Fey Kin - Centaurs are children of the world and have close ties to the fey. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (nature) and +2 racial bonus to Survival Skill checks. (2 points)
Weapon Familiarity - Centaurs are Proficient with Longbows (including Composite Longbows), and the Lance. (1 point)
Note: i wanted to add one or to things but i figured i would check this out first.
I think I'd do the value this way:
Large 5pts (large weapons and increased carrying capacity)
4-legs means they get +4 CMD vs trip so probably 2pts
spirited sprinter 8pts
Darkvision 2pts
undersized weapons -4pts
unique physiology -4pts
fey kin 2pts
weapon familiarity 1pt
Total 14pts is what it looks like to me.
Take away the automatic Run feat and they're 10pts.
EDIT: NINJA'D by VM
I do disagree on one pont VoodooMike
I think it makes Large worth less if you take away the ability to use large weapons. So I think it is worth points. Whether you include it in their large description or make it separate it does take some power away from the Large size.
Posting for future reference. Good work!
On a side note, centaurs actually don't have reach (check the bestiary, pg 42) and yeah i can probably take away the run feat part of that ability (though it was kinda neat, meh :)) couple that with the inability to wield large weapons i don't think large would be an issue (accept with certain circumstances in the game). things is they are large long, not tall which actually can be a hindrance in the fact that they do not possess reach, they can not have any special mounts (Go ahead imagine a centaur riding a dragon, dragonne, or anything else, instant laughter ;))
The average centaur would only be as tall as your average Horse (9-10 ft. at most), their size being much like a dwarf, shorter then their size would suggest but being more bulk. It wouldn't be that big of a hindrance for most dungeons, though some points would be difficult at least for the passage ways.
You could make them medium, however, to keep with the Quadruped theme and the fact they are larger then your average human or even half-orc you would have to do something akin to the powerful build feature and then all kinds of craziness may result. Just seemed easier to work with the large and take away small bits then go medium and try to work the rest out.
In answer to your question mike, it negates the Bonus from being large (being able to wield Large weapons), keeping it more inline with the LA 0 races.
that said... I really like this whole point system it seems to work really well. Kudos to Voodoomike :)
Bloody hell Ogre! lol you beat me to the punch. thank you ogre for the links :)
On a side note, centaurs actually don't have reach (check the bestiary, pg 42) and yeah i can probably take away the run feat part of that ability (though it was kinda neat, meh :)) couple that with the inability to wield large weapons i don't think large would be an issue (accept with certain circumstances in the game). things is they are large long, not tall which actually can be a hindrance in the fact that they do not possess reach, they can not have any special mounts (Go ahead imagine a centaur riding a dragon, dragonne, or anything else, instant laughter ;))
The average centaur would only be as tall as your average Horse (9-10 ft. at most), their size being much like a dwarf, shorter then their size would suggest but being more bulk. It wouldn't be that big of a hindrance for most dungeons, though some points would be difficult at least for the passage ways.
You could make them medium, however, to keep with the Quadruped theme and the fact they are larger then your average human or even half-orc you would have to do something akin to the powerful build feature and then all kinds of craziness may result. Just seemed easier to work with the large and take away small bits then go medium and try to work the rest out.
In answer to your question mike, it negates the Bonus from being large (being able to wield Large weapons), keeping it more inline with the LA 0 races.
that said... I really like this whole point system it seems to work really well. Kudos to Voodoomike :)
If you made Centaurs using Pony bodies instead of Horse bodies then they would effectively be the same thing but would be medium size instead. :)
If you made Centaurs using Pony bodies instead of Horse bodies then they would effectively be the same thing but would be medium size instead. :)
This just made me think of a Goblin torso with a Wardog body...hmmm...
This just made me think of a Goblin torso with a Wardog body...hmmm...
lol oh my god and it would work... gah! need to stay focused on my conversion of Tomb of the Lizard king... the centaur light was just supposed to be a side thing :)
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Also Centaurs use medium weapons which resolves a lot of the size large issues.
Undersized Weapons (Ex) Although a centaur is Large, its upper torso is the same size as that of a Medium humanoid. As a result, they wield weapons as if they were one size category smaller than their actual size (Medium for most centaurs).
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Hey, I am making a fey type race that should be equivalent in power to a Tiefling or Assmyr.
Syl
Type: Fey
Size: Small
Abilities: +2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha (symilar to Assmyr no negs. but an extra stat.)
Low-light vision
Darkvision - Syls can see in the dark up to 60 ft.
Fast: Syls are fast for their size, and have a base speed of 30 feet. (If I made this 40 would it be to unbalnceing?)
Weapon Familiarity: Bastard Swords. From a young age Syls are trained in the use of Bastard Swords. Syls are always proficent in the use of Bastard Swords.
Automatic Languages: Sylvan, and Common. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Draconian, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc
Age: Adult 200, Middle Age 800, Old 1400, Venerable 2000, Maximum 2000 +10d%
Hey Lostsoul, +2 vs enchantment would be 2 points according to the original posting. Question...? why bastard sword? and yeah putting it at 40 may potentially making it unbalancing. I would add a little more flavorful abilities if you can get away with it as well.
Hope that helps.
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Stuff
Definately Helps!
Ok +2 sounds good. The Bastard Sword and Longbow are Cultural homebrew things. I meant to put Longbow on there too, my bad. Any sugestions on flavor? I know that what is there isnt quite up to Tiefling or Assmyr. They are going to be fey CN-LN(outsiders)/human like Tiefling= Evil CE-LE(outsiders)/human Assmyr= Good CG-LG(outsiders)/human. Hope that helps.
Okay, I'm going to try my hand at a "Centaur Lite" as a Half-Centaur race because I thought it'd be interesting. Let me know what you think. I based a lot of it as having the lower half being about the size of a pony, maybe a little bigger. It's still a work in progress.
Half-Centaur Racial Traits
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence: Half-Centaurs are very hardy and aware creatures, but typically not very knowledgeable.
Medium: Half-Centaurs are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Half-Centaurs have a base speed of 30 feet.
Run: Half-Centaurs receive Run as a bonus feat. (4 points)
Travel Speed: Half-Centaurs are somewhat awkward on the battlefield, limiting their base speed to 30 feet. However, during normal travel they are treated as having a 40 foot base speed as a pony. (1 or 2 points)
-Figured this would be a good way of balancing the 40/50 foot base speed thing. I think Mike suggested something along these lines, though he actually said something like this might be a freebie.
Darkvision: Half-Centaurs can see in the dark up to 60 feet. (2 points)
Double-Load: The Half-Centaur's horse-like body lets it carry double the weight for its carry capacity. (2 points)
-Actually kind of confused here. The Bestiary has the Pony carry capacity written as light load up to 100 pounds, medium 101-200, and heavy 201-300 with a 13 Strength which is double the normal carry capacity for that Strength. That's what I based Double-Load on. But on page 170 (as Squidmasher mentioned) it says that it should only be x1-1/2 for medium creatures and in Table 7-9 the load a pony can carry during travel is also based off of this. Even if it should be x1-1/2, I think I like x2 better since a Half-Centaur is a little bigger than a pony. A good middle ground between the x1-1/2 of a medium creature and the x3 of a large.
Abnormal Physique: The Half-Centaur's horse-like body makes creating effective armor for them more difficult than it is for other humanoid races. All normal and masterwork armor costs four times the usual amount and weights twice as much. The cost of adding magical enhancements remains the same. Any magical items taking up a foot slot must be crafted as horseshoes for a Half-Centaur to use them. (-2 or -4 points)
-Not sure how much this should be worth. I mostly took it from JadedDemiGod's post. I was originally thinking that they'd need two sets of armor, one for each half, but I thought that'd get too complicated. Have things like 50% chance of getting past armor or something like that. This is much simpler.
Half-Blood: Select Dwarf, Elf, or Human. Half-Centaurs count as both Centaurs and that race for any effect related to race. (0 or 1 point)
-Not sure if that's really much of a benefit. Just lifted it from Half-Elf and don't know if it really effects much.
Languages: Half-Centaurs receive the starting languages and bonus languages for high Intelligence scores of their selected race (Dwarf, Elf, or Human).
So depending on what point values turn out to be, this is between 5 and 9 points. Might be some room to add a few more things.
Thanks! Race is (mechanicly)intended as 1/2 ork substitute and the decadent, quarrelsome, bloodline obsessed face of elvendom.
What do you all think of a medium race that's limited to using small size weapons?
Is that a -4pt ability?
Light Foot: +10 ft. to base land speed when wearing light or no armor and not carrying a medium or heavy load. (8pts)
It's the equivalent to taking Fleet twice so 2 feats. (This means that taking a flat 40 ft. speed would be 10-12 pts.)
OR
Range Runner: Able travel fast over long distances. They have an over land movement of 40 ft. Is also able to run at up to x5 speed. A Gobaur with the Run feat can run at x6. (4pts)
What do you think?
Gobaur are like Centaurs only with Goblinoid torso and Riding Dog body.
Gobaur:
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha: Gobaur are quick, and cunning, but are overly aggressive making them a little off-putting to some.
Medium Size
Speed 30 ft.
Darkvision 60 ft.
Quadruped: Multiply carrying capacity by 1.5. +4 CMD vs Trip combat maneuver. Cannot wear standard equipment. Armor is x4 cost. Cannot wear boots or shoes.
Undersized Weapons: Gobaurs small humanoid torso only allows them to wield small sized weapons.
Tough Hide: Gobaur tough hide and thick fur give them a +1 bonus to AC
Range Runner: Gobaurs travel fast over long distances. They have an over land movement of 40 ft. A Gobaur is also able to run at up to x5 speed. A Gobaur with the Run feat can run at x6. (4pts)
Canine Jumper: Like the dogs, whose body they share, Gobaur are good at jumping. They receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks to jump
Favored Tactic: Gobaur are fond of using trip attacks against their foes and gain a +4 bonus to CMB when performing the Trip combat maneuver.
Goblinoid: Gobaur count as goblinoid subtype for any effect that matters.
Quadruped (2pt)
Darkvision (2 pts)
Canine Jumper (1pt)
Undersized Weapons (-4pts)
Tough Hide(4pts)
Range Runner (4pts)
Favored Tactic (1 pt)
Total (10pts)
What do you think about this ability for Centaur style races?
Self-Mounted: This creature is always considered mounted for the purposes of abilities such as combat feats, charge damage with a lance, and Cavalier abilities. The creature does not require Ride checks while being its own mount, does not receive the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground, or allow for the special abilities related to ranged weapons or spell casting. The creature may never ride another creature as a mount unless the mount is at least two size categories larger.
What would be the point value for something like that? I don't know very much about mounted combat, so are there any other things that this ability should include/exclude?
Yeah, I forgot about the +4 CMD vs Trip and I'll probably also take away the automatic Run feat for my Half-Centaur since it doesn't seem to factor into overland movement in the book.
What do you think about this ability for Centaur style races?
Self-Mounted: This creature is always considered mounted for the purposes of abilities such as combat feats, charge damage with a lance, and Cavalier abilities. The creature does not require Ride checks while being its own mount, does not receive the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground, or allow for the special abilities related to ranged weapons or spell casting. The creature may never ride another creature as a mount unless the mount is at least two size categories larger.
What would be the point value for something like that? I don't know very much about mounted combat, so are there any other things that this ability should include/exclude?
Yeah, I forgot about the +4 CMD vs Trip and I'll probably also take away the automatic Run feat for my Half-Centaur since it doesn't seem to factor into overland movement in the book.
Hmm I'm not sure this is necessary. Since a quadruped couldn't logically ride a mount anyway, and logistically it is effectively mounted, I think I would just say he always counts as mounted for any situation in which it would matter. Obviously he doesn't have to make ride checks and can't be dismounted but the design of the Race comes with its own situational drawbacks.
At most I think it would be 1pt.
Anyone have an opinion on what an extra arm would be worth? I was thinking 4pts per arm because it's like taking another feat in the line of two weapon fighting. It would grant an extra secondary attack at -5. But it's a little more powerful than that because you would have an extra arm free to do things like loading crossbows or retrieve a potion while your other two hands are busy so perhaps 6pts or 8pts per arm? If that's the case then a 4-armed race is pretty much out of options for core unless you give them some significant drawbacks.
Following this format, how do you think these races would look in a game?
Vulsune
+2 Int, +2 Dex
Medium: Vulsune are Medium sized creatures.
Normal: Vulsune have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Vulsune are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Elemental Boon: All vulsune are born under one of the four primodial elementals. At 1st level, the vulsune selects one of the following feats as a bonus feat: Air Blessed, Earth Touched, Flame Kissed, or Water Caressed,
Instinct: Vulsune have developed sharp instincts through countless generations of surviving in the wilderness. A vulsune gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Survival checks.
Vulsunian Luck: A vulsune gains a +1 bonus to all of their saving throws.
Weapon Familiarity: Vulsune treat the bastard sword as well as any weapon with 'vulsune' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon.
Negate Ability Penalty - 4pts.
Medium Creature - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -4pts.
Elemental Boon - 4pts.
Instinct - 2pts.
Vulsunian Luck - 4pts.
Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.
Total - 10pts.
Leline
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
Medium: Lelines are Medium creatures.
Normal: Lelines have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Lelines are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Claws: Lelines possess two claw attacks. These attacks deal 1d6 damage.
Cumbersome: Lelines increase the armor check penalty for wearing medium armor by -2 and the armor check penalty for wearing heavy armor and tower shields by -2. This ability has no effect on their ability to wear light armor or shields.
Lion's Pride: Lelines are immune to fear effects.
Powerful Strikes: A leline is treated as a Large creature when determining the damage they deal with unarmed attacks, their claw attacks, and when making combat maneuver checks. These bonuses are taking in account in their claw damage (above). This benefit does not stack with effects that increase the Leline's size.
Nature's Calling: A leline gains a +1 bonus to their caster level when casting spells of the Conjuration school.
Scent: A leline gains the scent special quality.
Ability Scores - 0pts.
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtyle - -4pts.
Claws - 4pts.
Cumbersome - -2pts.
Lion's Pride - 2pts.
Powerful Strikes - 4pts.
Nature's Calling - 4pts.
Scent - 2pts.
Total - 10pts.
Mephian
+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom
Medium: Mephians are Medium creatures.
Normal: Mephians have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Mephians are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Charming Personality: Mephians gain a +2 bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks and the DC of all charm effects they use increases by 1.
Low Light Vision: A Mephian can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Mephian Musk: Mephians secret a powerful pherome within their bodies that they can unleash as a standard action. Using this ability is a ranged touch attack with a range of 30ft. and on a successful hit the target creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Mephian's hit dice + their Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the creature is sicked for 1d4 minutes, or until they can wash the musk off.
Natural Armor: Mephians gain a +1 natural armor bonus to Armor class.
Tail: Mephians gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Ability Scores - 0pts.
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -4 pts.
Charming Personality - 4pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Mephian Musk - 4pts.
Natural Armor - 4pts.
Tail - 1pts.
Total - 10pts.
Nashi
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom[/u]
[i]Small: Nashi are Small creatures.
Normal: Despite their small size, Nashi have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Nashi are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Low Light Vision: A Nashi can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Not my Time: A Nashi gains a +2 bonus on saving throws to resist nonmagical diseases and poisons and to stabilize.
Skin of your Teeth: A Nashi can reroll a single saving throw once per day. You must use this ability before the GM declares a save to be a success or failure. (+4 pts.)
Sticky Paws: A Nashi gains a +2 bonus on Climb and Sleight of Hand checks and a +4 to their CMD to resist disarm attempts.
Tricky Magic: A Nashi gains a +2 bonus on caster level checks to bypass a creature's spell resistance.
Weapon Familiarity: Nashi treat the hook sword and any weapon with 'nashi' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon. (0 pts.)
Ability Scores - 0pts.
Small Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -4pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Not my Time - 2pts.
Skin of your Teeth - 4pts.
Sticky Paws - 3pts.
Tricky Magic - 4pts.
Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.
Total - 10pts.
Any feedback would be wonderful!
Therian: A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.Therian Subtype - -4pts.
When I was looking, I counted around 6 spells this made them vulnerable to that they wouldn't be ordinarily. Most of these (around 2/3rds) had humanoid-affecting equivalents at the same spell level, and only one I found (Animal Trance) didn't have an equivalent for humanoids that was one level higher. While a game world rife with Therians would probably see these spells prepared more often, if I could affect a Therian with Charm Person more easily than I could Charm Animal (since Therians get a bonus against Charm Animal), and I could affect more of my common adventuring enemies with Charm Person, am I really going to prepare Charm Animal at all? I would say that, at worst, the Therian Subtype is worth about -2. I can't even see player characters (with the possible exception of Rangers, with their limited spell selection) taking advantage of it, ever.
That said, the "Leline" race has two major problems that would prevent me from using it in my games. If "Bravery," the fighter's bonus against fear effects, is considered worthy of being a class ability (ostensibly worth a feat or more), why would Fear Immunity be worth less than a feat? It also makes them immune to nearly as many, if not more, spells than the Therian Subtype makes them vulnerable to, and many more class abilities than that. A racial bonus against fear effects (which would stack with feat bonuses and the Bravery bonus) would be a better way to make them resistant.
Their other issue stems from the Scent ability. Many DMs don't have a problem giving Scent to players early on, but I have found permanent, early access to Scent to be problematic. It defuses many ambushes, as presences can be detected automatically within 30', more if the wind is right. It makes melee attacking invisible creatures much more manageable, as they are not only automatically detected, but pinpointed. It also allows for Tracking under certain circumstances it would not otherwise be allowed (although it is usually much more difficult) and can lead to some questions about why certain facts weren't discovered earlier if you run mysteries ("If the Baron was the killer, why didn't he smell like violence that time we talked to him right after the murder?"). The problem I usually run in to is not Scent itself, but 24/7 access to it. Such constant access seems to be worth more than a feat to me.
Vulsune
The vulnerability to animal spells is only worth -2 pts tops and I think that's stretching it. -1 pt I think is better. How often do you run into those kinds of spells without the usual humanoid versions already available?
Weapon familiarity with Bastard Sword is 1 pt. It's a free exotic weapon proficiency for anyone who would care and it's not race specific.
Drop Vulsunian Luck and now you have a 10pt race.
Leline
same issue with the mental stuff. only worth -1 pt.
Two claws that do 1d6 each is more powerful than a feat. Aspect of the Beast only grants 1d4 claw damage. 1d6 damage claws is worth two feats. This is an 8pt ability.
Immunity to Fear is worth a minimum of 8 pts.
powerful strikes basically just gives them +2 to combat manuver checks since the claw damage is already included int he claw entry. so 2 pts. although this does leave them open to abuse the Monk's unarmed strikes because of your unarmed attack clause. i would remove that part.
I think Scent is worth 4pts.
I'll take a look at your other two in a different post.
Mephian
again the Therian subtype thing. Only -1 pt.
Mephian Musk: Mephians secret a powerful pherome within their bodies that they can unleash once per day as a standard action. Using this ability requires a touch attack. On a successful hit the target creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Mephian's hit dice + their Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the creature is sicked for 1d4 rounds, or until they can wash the musk off. Washing the musk off is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
Now it's a 4 pt ability. As written before it was way too powerful.
So this is a 13 pt race at the moment.
Nashi
Therian subtype. Only -1 pt.
That's the only thing I see wrong with this one. Figure out how to make up the other 3 points and it's golden.
When I was looking, I counted around 6 spells this made them vulnerable to that they wouldn't be ordinarily. Most of these (around 2/3rds) had humanoid-affecting equivalents at the same spell level, and only one I found (Animal Trance) didn't have an equivalent for humanoids that was one level higher. While a game world rife with Therians would probably see these spells prepared more often, if I could affect a Therian with Charm Person more easily than I could Charm Animal (since Therians get a bonus against Charm Animal), and I could affect more of my common adventuring enemies with Charm Person, am I really going to prepare Charm Animal at all? I would say that, at worst, the Therian Subtype is worth about -2. I can't even see player characters (with the possible exception of Rangers, with their limited spell selection) taking advantage of it, ever.
No, you're not, because Sorcerers and Wizards don't have access to the Charm Person spell. It's a Druid / Ranger specific spell, and the entire point of the penalty is that this is a race intended for players. By choosing a Therian race, you're also allowing yourself to become vulnerable to those spells; enemies that wouldn't normally be able to so effectively counter you (Druids and Rangers) now gain the ability to. I do agree with you that the +2 bonus on the saves might be too much; I originally gave it to them because I could have sworn there was a clause that magical beasts got a +2 to their save against effects like Hold Animal, but I guess they removed that. Do you think it's even worth keeping this penalty if it isn't a real downside?
That said, the "Leline" race has two major problems that would prevent me from using it in my games. If "Bravery," the fighter's bonus against fear effects, is considered worthy of being a class ability (ostensibly worth a feat or more), why would Fear Immunity be worth less than a feat? It also makes them immune to nearly as many, if not more, spells than the Therian Subtype makes them vulnerable to, and many more class abilities than that. A racial bonus against fear effects (which would stack with feat bonuses and the Bravery bonus) would be a better way to make them resistant.
The guide that begins this entire thread specifically lists "immunity to fear effects" as one of the 4 point abilities; has that been amended since this guide was first posted? Also, Paladins gain complete fear immunity as a class feature; since Bravery only scales up to a +5 at 18th level, I think it's safe to say that just as not all feats are equal in strength, all class features aren't equal in strength. That's not to say that I wouldn't change this; I'd just like to hear a little more justification then the use of an underpowered Fighter class feature.
Their other issue stems from the Scent ability. Many DMs don't have a problem giving Scent to players early on, but I have found permanent, early access too problematic. It defuses many ambushes, as presences can be detected automatically within 30', more if the wind is right. It makes melee attacking invisible creatures much more manageable, as they are not only automatically detected, but pinpointed. It also allows for Tracking under certain circumstances it would not otherwise be allowed (although it is usually much more difficult) and can lead to some questions about why certain facts weren't discovered earlier if you run mysteries ("If the Baron was the killer, why didn't he smell like violence that time we talked to him right after the murder?"). The problem I usually run in to is not Scent itself, but 24/7 access to it. Such constant access seems to be worth more than a feat to me.
I can see that. I guess I could drop that ability and just make a feat that grants Scent with a certain number of ranks in Survival and Perception or something.
VulsuneThe vulnerability to animal spells is only worth -2 pts tops and I think that's stretching it. -1 pt I think is better. How often do you run into those kinds of spells without the usual humanoid versions already available?
Like I pointed out to Parka, the enemies that would gain access to those spells wouldn't normally have access to their humanoid-only counterparts. It turns Druids and Rangers into enemies equally as dangerous as Sorcerers, Clerics or Inquisitors in that regard.
Weapon familiarity with Bastard Sword is 1 pt. It's a free exotic weapon proficiency for anyone who would care and it's not race specific.
So race-specific proficiencies isn't worth a point, but weapons like the Bastard Sword are? That's weird .... Could you explain that to me so I know about it for the next races I make, please?
Drop Vulsunian Luck and now you have a 10pt race.
That's easy enough. I originally picked that trait because I ran out of ideas anyway xD.
Two claws that do 1d6 each is more powerful than a feat. Aspect of the Beast only grants 1d4 claw damage. 1d6 damage claws is worth two feats. This is an 8pt ability.
Yeah, I kind of had a feeling when I was writing this race that the Powerful Strikes thing wouldn't work out. I'll probably take that back and add a different 4 pts. ability instead.
Immunity to Fear is worth a minimum of 8 pts.
Probably going to change this to a +2 / +4 bonus instead (still thinking about which).
powerful strikes basically just gives them +2 to combat manuver checks since the claw damage is already included int he claw entry. so 2 pts. although this does leave them open to abuse the Monk's unarmed strikes because of your unarmed attack clause. i would remove that part.
I think Scent is worth 4pts.
I'm probably going to do you one more and just drop this feat and Scent all together. Parka had a very convincing argument against Scent that I hadn't considered.
Mephian Musk: Mephians secret a powerful pherome within their bodies that they can unleash once per day as a standard action. Using this ability requires a touch attack. On a successful hit the target creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Mephian's hit dice + their Constitution modifier). On a failed save, the creature is sicked for 1d4 rounds, or until they can wash the musk off. Washing the musk off is a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
Now it's a 4 pt ability. As written before it was way too powerful.
The only thing I'm not sure of is that the ability that this one was based off of (Gnome Magic) allows once use of four different abilities each day; effectively four spells per day. With that in mind, do you still think that one shot of musk is a 4 pts. ability?
Thanks for your time!
Like I pointed out to Parka, the enemies that would gain access to those spells wouldn't normally have access to their humanoid-only counterparts. It turns Druids and Rangers into enemies equally as dangerous as Sorcerers, Clerics or Inquisitors in that regard.
In a certain kind of campaign I can see it being worth more but I think in most campaigns it's just not going to come into play often enough to make a difference. If the DM uses a lot of Druids/Rangers against the party then I could see it being worth 2-3pts. It ends up being a DM judgement call though.
So race-specific proficiencies isn't worth a point, but weapons like the Bastard Sword are? That's weird .... Could you explain that to me so I know about it for the next races I make, please?
I see your point looking back at the original post. It irks me to see someone get a free exotic weapon like the bastard sword without any cost to the build. But I think you're right. It does fall in the 0pt category.
Immunity to Fear is worth a minimum of 8 pts.
Let's look at it this way. You can get a feat that gives you +2 on all Will saves.
I think +2 vs a specific kind of will save (fear) is probably worth 1-2pts. However, what if you did a bonus of +2 + (1/2HD) vs Fear? This would probably be a 4pt ability.
I would stear clear of outright immunities though because an immunity to fear means they're immune to 3 or 4 effects listed in the glossary.
The only thing I'm not sure of is that the ability that this one was based off of (Gnome Magic) allows once use of four different abilities each day; effectively four spells per day. With that in mind, do you still think that one shot of musk is a 4 pts. ability?
Sickened makes the target basically -2 at everything they do. This is more powerful than a collection of cantrips (Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Dancing Lights, and Speak With Animals).
Deffinitley have to keep it down to 1/day. Because it has combat utility I think its range needs to be touch. Maybe 30ft ranged touch attack is ok but prefer to lean more toward the side of caution. I'd rather it was a little too weak than a little too powerful.
With your opinions and advice taken into account, here are the newly finished races:
Vulsune
+2 Int, +2 Dex
Medium: Vulsune are Medium sized creatures.
Normal: Vulsune have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Vulsune are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Elemental Boon: All vulsune are born under one of the four primodial elementals. At 1st level, the vulsune selects one of the following feats as a bonus feat: Air Blessed, Earth Touched, Flame Kissed, or Water Caressed.
Instinct: A vulsune gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Survival checks.
Low Light Vision: A vulsune can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Weapon Familiarity: Vulsune treat the bastard sword as well as any weapon with 'vulsune' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon.
Abilities - +4pts
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -1pts.
Elemental Boon - 4pts.
Instinct - 2pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.
Changes - Therian Subtype reduced to -1 penalty, Vulsune luck removed, added Low Light Vision
Leline
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
Medium: Lelines are Medium creatures.
Normal: Lelines have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Lelines are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Claws: Lelines possess two claw attacks. These attacks deal 1d4 damage.
Lion's Pride: Lelines gain a +2 bonus to saving throws against fear effects.
Low-Light Vision: A leline can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Nature's Calling: A leline gains a +2 bonus to their caster level when casting spells of the Conjuration school.
Abilities - 0pts.
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -1pts.
Claws - 4pts.
Lion's Pride - 2pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Nature's Calling - 4pts.
Changes - Constitution bonus changed to a Strength bonus to better diversify the race, Therian subtype penalty reduced to -1, Powerful Strikes removed (claws adjusted to 1d4 as a result), Lion's Pride no longer grants fear immunity, added Low Light Vision.
Mephian
+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom
Medium: Mephians are Medium creatures. (0 pts.)
Normal: Mephians have a 30ft. movement speed (0 pts.)
Therian: Mephians are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2. (-1 pts.)
Charming Personality: Mephians gain a +2 bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks and the DC of all charm effects they use increases by 1.
Low Light Vision: A Mephian can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Mephian Musk: As a standard action, a Mephian can make a touch attack to a creature to douse it with mephian musk. The creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Mephian's hit dice + their Constitution modifier) or become sickened for 1d4 rounds. This ability can only be used once per day, and a creature can end the sickened condition early by taking a full round action to remove it. Doing so provokes attacks of opportunities.
Strong Nose: Mephians gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against inhaled effects or effects that are smell-based, such as the Stinking Cloud spell.
Tail: Mephians gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Abilities - 0pts.
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -1pts.
Charming Personality - 4pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Mephian Musk - 4pts.
Strong Nose - 1pts.
Tail - 1pts.
Changes - Therian subtype penalty was reduced to -1, Mephian Musk was significantly changed, reducing its power, natural armor was removed, low-light vision and strong nose were added to fill in the gap.
Nashi
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom
Small: Nashi are Small creatures (0 pts.)
Normal: Despite their small size, Nashi have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Nashi are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Low Light Vision: A Nashi can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Skin of your Teeth: A Nashi can reroll a single saving throw once per day. You must use this ability before the GM declares a save to be a success or failure.
Sticky Paws: A Nashi gains a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks and a +4 to their CMD to resist disarm attempts.
Tricky Magic: A Nashi gains a +2 bonus on caster level checks to bypass a creature's spell resistance.
Weapon Familiarity: Nashi treat the hook sword and any weapon with 'nashi' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon.
Abilities - 0pts.
Small Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -1pts.
Low Light Vision - 1 pts.
Skin of your Teeth - 4pts.
Sticky Paws - 2pts.
Tricky Magic - 4pts.
Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.
Total - 10pts.
Changes - Therian subtype penalty was reduced to -1, Not my Time was completely removed, and the +2 bonus on Climb checks that was granted by Sticky Paws was removed.
With your opinions and advice taken into account, here are the newly finished races:
Vulsune
+2 Int, +2 Dex
Medium: Vulsune are Medium sized creatures.
Normal: Vulsune have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Vulsune are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
Elemental Boon: All vulsune are born under one of the four primodial elementals. At 1st level, the vulsune selects one of the following feats as a bonus feat: Air Blessed, Earth Touched, Flame Kissed, or Water Caressed.
Instinct: A vulsune gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Survival checks.
Low Light Vision: A vulsune can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
Weapon Familiarity: Vulsune treat the bastard sword as well as any weapon with 'vulsune' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon.Abilities - +4pts
Medium Size - 0pts.
Normal Speed - 0pts.
Therian Subtype - -1pts.
Elemental Boon - 4pts.
Instinct - 2pts.
Low Light Vision - 1pts.
Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.Changes - Therian Subtype reduced to -1 penalty, Vulsune luck removed, added Low Light Vision
Leline
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
Medium: Lelines are Medium creatures.
Normal: Lelines have a 30ft. movement speed.
Therian: Lelines are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2....
I think they all look balanced now.
Just for the heck of it, here's the Khajit from the Elder Scrolls series. Perhaps they won't suck as much in Pathfinder form...
Khajit
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con: Khajit are very nimble and intelligent, but they are otherwise physically weak.
Medium: Khajit are medium-sized creatures.
Normal Speed: Khajit have a base speed of 30 ft.
Fleet: Khajit receive Fleet as a bonus feat.
Darkvision 60 ft.
Acrobatic: Khajit are exceptionally acrobatic. Khajit receive a +2 racial bonus to their Acrobatics. Acrobatics is always a class skill for a Khajit.
Keen Senses: Because of their excellent senses, Khajit receive a +2 circumstance bonus on all Perception checks.
Ability Scores: 0 pts.
Size: 0 pts.
Speed: 0 pts.
Bonus Feat: 4 pts.
Darkvision: 2 pts.
+2 to 2 Skills: 2 pts.
Bonus Class Skill: 2 pt.