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For the sake of discussion, assume I allow gloves of Dexterity in my campaign. Can they be worn under gauntlets made of mithral (or silver) and function properly?
The gloves would increase Dex and the gauntlets would bypass DR/silver so I'm wondering if that comes under the heading of "stacking".
On the one hand I'd say "yes, they stack because only one is magical" but on the other hand I can see an answer of "no, because they provide separate benefits in the same body slot".
Opinions?
I don't see how you'd be able to use your hands at all effectively while wearing two sets of gloves unless they were exceptionally thin - which would make them useless as protection. I'd rule against it, though I don't know what the RAW is.
Of course, then you might as well say "Well, I'm wearing padded armor under my chain shirt, neither are magical, so I should be able to combine their AC bonus, or at least add part of the AC bonus from the padded to the chain." And that isn't how it works.
I am positive that by raw this is permitted. Otherwise glove slot items wouldnt be usable with the majority of armor types (most of them include gauntlets, particularly heavier armors).
It probably depends on the slot.
Magical + non-magical rings are easy to imagine.
Magical + non-magical boots are more difficult.
I would let gloves do it. A lot of armors you would be wearing cloth underneath gauntlets because metal on skin is uncomfortable.
I would let gloves do it. A lot of armors you would be wearing cloth underneath gauntlets because metal on skin is uncomfortable.
Yes, but in a lot of cases the gauntlets are lined with cloth or leather for exactly that reason.
I would let gloves do it. A lot of armors you would be wearing cloth underneath gauntlets because metal on skin is uncomfortable.Yes, but in a lot of cases the gauntlets are lined with cloth or leather for exactly that reason.
One could reasonably assume that you would remove the lining and use the gloves in place of it.
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It probably depends on the slot.
Magical + non-magical rings are easy to imagine.
Magical + non-magical boots are more difficult.
This is what I was thinking. So my plan is to...
Allow it for the following slots: ring, glove, back(cloak), neck, and head.
Disallow it for all others.
So where does a bandoleer fit? Is it even a slot? (j/k; I don't really need an answer for that. :))
Magical + non-magical boots are more difficult.
They are called socks!
All kidding aside, RAW doesn't limit you on this. Even with the boots situation, what are the non magical boots going to do for you that the magical ones won't? I guess they could have been some masterwork item that gave a bonus, BUT the same masterwork item could have been made into the magical items as well (same base price for the masterwork item then add the "magical" price to it). Regardless the bonus you'll get from the non magical item won't be gamebreaking if they do occupy the "same slot", it is basically a non issue for the mechanics of the game.
Allow it for the following slots: ring, glove, back(cloak), neck, and head.Disallow it for all others.
So where does a bandoleer fit? Is it even a slot? (j/k; I don't really need an answer for that. :))
I'd say that is even more restrictive than needed... What about clothes? By your rules you couldn't wear a magical robe with underclothes, or magical armor with clothing (Body slot). Or a belt (probably the best "slot" for a bandoleer), would wearing a magical belt keep you from wearing a non magical bandoleer (or two) to hold throwing daggers?? As I said before, I'd just let it go if there are overlapping slots, reasoning could be made for all of them really.
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I'd say that is even more restrictive than needed... What about clothes?
The problem is not with mundane pieces of clothing. The problem is with two items that consume the same slot when each item provides a separate and stackable benefit.
In my OP I specified gloves of Dex and mithral gauntlets (that bypass DR/silver). They each provide a separate and distinct benefit. I think, by the RAW, that they shouldn't stack for that reason. Just like wearing two cloaks or two amulets.
However, only one of the items (the gloves) are magical. So as I said, I think I'm going to allow non-mundane items to stack in the same body slot as long as only one of them is magical.
The player in my game decided to just add the Dex bonus to the existing gauntlets so the entire issue is moot anyway. ;)
I'd say that is even more restrictive than needed... What about clothes?The problem is not with mundane pieces of clothing. The problem is with two items that consume the same slot when each item provides a separate and stackable benefit.
In my OP I specified gloves of Dex and mithral gauntlets (that bypass DR/silver). They each provide a separate and distinct benefit. I think, by the RAW, that they shouldn't stack for that reason. Just like wearing two cloaks or two amulets.
That isn't a "problem" as far as the rules are concerned. With the rules, masterwork item = mundane item. Actually that is wrong, generally anything that isn't a magic item that takes up a particular slot is able to be used in conjunction with a magic item that takes up that same slot. The rules don't differentiate between an item that gives a bonus and an item that doesn't in a particular slot, just that they both cannot be magical (again stated exception being 2 rings). So a magical glove and a masterwork gauntlet are ok. The "stackable" benefit of a mundane item is typically of the +1 to maybe +3 bonus on a particular skill (master work competence is the most common one) so the bonus is never going to be all that amazing and typically limited in scope, that is why they allow it in the rules.
However, only one of the items (the gloves) are magical. So as I said, I think I'm going to allow non-mundane items to stack in the same body slot as long as only one of them is magical.
And that is exactly what the rules say to do, for most intents and purposes the rules consider anything not magical to be "mundane." A set of masterwork armor is "mundane" and you could wear a magical robe (which takes up the "body" or "armor" slot IIRC) with it. You couldn't however wear magical armor and the magical robe though. In both cases there is a bonus given by the item but the rules only really care about the two magical items stacking when it is broken down.
As for the characters change in what they want, it is still a good idea to get what the rules allow and don't allow figured out. Chances are it will come up again ;)
I'm in agreement with people here - that applying common sense to the stacking makes the most sense.
In this particular case, the character could relatively easily replace the lining of standard gauntlets - or just use mithral half-gauntlets (the ones which don't cover the fingers, only the back of the hand) without too much hassle, I would imagine.
If you feel the magic leather gloves are thick, you can always apply an additional armour check penalty for Sleight of Hand and Disable Device type checks made with his hands.
I would, however, say, the RAW assume you only wear one thing per slot (with rings and jewelry being an exception - there's no reason you can't wear multiple rings on each finger, even if one per hand can grant you its magical abilities...)
I'd say that is even more restrictive than needed... What about clothes?The problem is not with mundane pieces of clothing. The problem is with two items that consume the same slot when each item provides a separate and stackable benefit.
In my OP I specified gloves of Dex and mithral gauntlets (that bypass DR/silver). They each provide a separate and distinct benefit. I think, by the RAW, that they shouldn't stack for that reason. Just like wearing two cloaks or two amulets.
No. You're inventing problems. Remember, every suit of medium or heavy armor has gauntlets automatically. The rules clearly are not intended to prevent people wearing heavy armor from using magical gloves or gauntlets. The "item slot" restriction applies only to magic items, and even then you can wear multiple items in the slot, it's just that only 1 or 2 of them can provide their magic to the character.
In my OP I specified gloves of Dex and mithral gauntlets (that bypass DR/silver). They each provide a separate and distinct benefit. I think, by the RAW, that they shouldn't stack for that reason. Just like wearing two cloaks or two amulets.However, only one of the items (the gloves) are magical. So as I said, I think I'm going to allow non-mundane items to stack in the same body slot as long as only one of them is magical.
The book specifically states that armor sets are made so that boots and gauntlets can be switched out. But you're talking about doing damage with them gauntlets, which makes it seem that you're talking about *spiked* gauntlets, which as weapons would go over gloves.
I think the rules support being able to wear multiple mundane items of the same kind even. I mean, look at Hennet. He's wearing at least 20 belts. The new Oracle iconic has a few mundane "head slot" items it looks like as well.