Recently, while wrapping up a campaign that I've been at for about 4 years, I realized that as the levels got higher, so too did death become more of a threat. If one of my players beloved PCs died, they would throw a monkey wrench into the plot, so to speak. One character carried a secret with him that was pivotal he kept hidden until the right moment, and should he die early, I'd really have to scramble to get things back in order.
Granted, at higher levels death becomes more of a speed bump than a real problem with spells like resurrection and their ilk, but thats not to say that this could happen at earlier levels, when revival isn't so easy to obtain.
Perhaps this is my flaw, but I was always fond of rewarding characters with intricate backstories by weaving them into the plot as important characters. That's not to say that every time I do it's pivotal that they live throughout the campaign, but there have a been a handful of instances like this in my many years of DMing that would really break my players envelopment in the story to just have another fellow come along and take the dead PCs place.
I know I'm not perfect, but I really like to try and emphasize destiny and other heroic concepts. I'm also not the type of DM who's afraid to let them die; I don't spoon feed the adventure to them or railroad them. They're generally very fond of my adventures, and grow very attached to their characters, especially when they realize that the very world hinges on their heroics (a little bit of an exaggeration, but I think you get my point).
Anyways, I was wondering how other DMs handle this, or even what players think of this. I usually do a single BIG, multi-year long campaign with occasional small but separate campaigns along the way. My big campaigns are known for their epic and grand plots with a high emphasis on adventure and action. Do other people have this sort of problem? If so, how do you handle it? Do you think I'm doing something wrong, or perhaps being too extreme?
Again, this isn't necessarily a problem of mine, but I'm curious to see if anyone else did this like me.
I too am a fan of the longer more epic (in scale, not necessarily level) games. When setting one up I do usually start with a rough time-line describing what happens if the PCs decide to not get involved. I have had groups that decided after the first adventure to ignore all other hooks and enjoy their new found wealth. The time-line will include several key points where if the party gets sidetracked events will draw them back in.
Getting to the topic of death, this approach also helps when a key character dies. By planning ahead that the party would get sidetracked, death can be just another form of being sidetracked. If it's a "key" character I follow the J. Michael Straczynski approach that everyone's expendable. You just have to plan for the consequences of that character's death. Looking at an example everyone knows, what would happen if Frodo had died. Maybe Sam could be the ringbearer. Maybe Boromir would take the ring to Gondor and the Fellowship would have to hunt him down. Maybe the Fellowship would realize only a Hobbit was resistant enough to the lust for power inherent in the ring. Maybe whoever did carry the ring did not go off alone and the fellowship went all the way to Mount Doom, but Rohan and Gondor fall without Aragorn and Gandalf. All are possibilities that I roughly plan for. Most everything I've prepared can still be used with minor modifications, but the world changes as it should when a "key" character dies.
The other approach that I've played in before is to have some power out there that always seems to step in and make sure the "key" characters continue. This leads to a feeling that the character are not masters of their own destinies, and I find that less fun.
That's my general approach to the epic game anyway. I don't think you're doing anything "wrong," but I would always have a plan in case x character dies. If it's a major setback and an entire country burns because x died I think it just adds to the feel of the campaign.
Recently, while wrapping up a campaign that I've been at for about 4 years, I realized that as the levels got higher, so too did death become more of a threat. If one of my players beloved PCs died, they would throw a monkey wrench into the plot, so to speak. One character carried a secret with him that was pivotal he kept hidden until the right moment, and should he die early, I'd really have to scramble to get things back in order.
Granted, at higher levels death becomes more of a speed bump than a real problem with spells like resurrection and their ilk, but thats not to say that this could happen at earlier levels, when revival isn't so easy to obtain.
Perhaps this is my flaw, but I was always fond of rewarding characters with intricate backstories by weaving them into the plot as important characters. That's not to say that every time I do it's pivotal that they live throughout the campaign, but there have a been a handful of instances like this in my many years of DMing that would really break my players envelopment in the story to just have another fellow come along and take the dead PCs place.
I know I'm not perfect, but I really like to try and emphasize destiny and other heroic concepts. I'm also not the type of DM who's afraid to let them die; I don't spoon feed the adventure to them or railroad them. They're generally very fond of my adventures, and grow very attached to their characters, especially when they realize that the very world hinges on their heroics (a little bit of an exaggeration, but I think you get my point).
Anyways, I was wondering how other DMs handle this, or even what players think of this. I usually do a single BIG, multi-year long campaign with occasional small but separate campaigns along the way. My big campaigns are known for their epic and grand plots with a high emphasis on adventure and action. Do other people have this sort of problem? If so, how do you handle it? Do you think I'm doing something wrong, or perhaps being too extreme?
Again, this isn't...
Like Enkilii said, if a key character dies, the world changes accordingly. Yes, you might have to do a major sidetrack, or even modify the major story entirely. If you stick make sure eveything falls back together according to your original plan, despite a major screw up of the characters, make sure the players don't notice. It sucks to be mere puppets for an entirely pre-planned story. If one (or more) of the characters "carry the fate of the world falls on their shoulders", the world better damn end if they screw up.
On the other hand, a major character's death caused by random events might be worth averting (like a goblin henchman scoring a string of criticals), say by fudging the rolls. But then again, who says history can't be changed by a lowly goblin, for good or ill?
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Plot is defined simply as a series of events that occur over time. This describes game play at the game table in real time. So plot "happens" at the game table every session as all of us at the table watch it unfold.
When running large epic campaigns over long periods of time I don't necessarily plan for key dramatic moments or plot twists though I recognize areas for potential (and set NPC stories and goals to help create these). Instead I learned to watch carefully to take advantage of key moments, to enhance drama that surfaces spontaneously at the game table, and to spin an unusual or random occurence into a diabolical plot twist.
This has allowed me to provide something very close to a large planned over-arching epic plot but turns out a lot more organic, derived directly from player choices, and isn't hinged on any single player character (though each PC has contributed to and has brought their own spin on the elements of that "plot").
I was happy to see someone mention B5 as it is an excellent example where the writer designed the skeletal framework of the story arc and fleshed it out as they went, altering the plot as key characters stories abruptly "changed" (i.e. a character death, losing a player altogether, PC turns into an evil NPC, etc.) such as the Talia Winters big reveal (where the actress asked for too much $$ to stay on and so left the show) and subsequent replacement by another telepathic character. Not to mention the leaving of the main character of the show after the first season and how his story changed into something even more amazing, the next actor taking over where his first character left off. Always feel free and flexible to re-write bits of the story that have yet to be revealed, even large re-writes because often you will find entirely new possibilities for the story you didn't see when thigns started.
An example from my current Eberron campaign. At some point it may be pivotal to the events of the campaign that one of the character "bonds" permanently with an artifact. Who that PC will be (it could be any 3 of 4 PCs) or if it will be a future PC not yet introduced has yet to be seen. But that story "role" still exists waiting to be filled or temporarily filled until another supporting character can step into those story shoes.
Its a different way of thinking about plot and story, more as characters fulfilling roles in the unfolding epic plot arc and the flexibility and the flavor differences those changes will make to the story as a pivotal role is replaced with a soldier where the previous role was perhaps filled by a pacifist mystic. See the repercussions and influence of these changes can be fascinating and please feel free to watch the ripples blossom into their own interesting stories.
Good discussion guys. I like to see others that run games in a similar vein to the way I like to. Cheers!
Plot is defined simply as a series of events that occur over time. This describes game play at the game table in real time. So plot "happens" at the game table every session as all of us at the table watch it unfold.
When running large epic campaigns over long periods of time I don't necessarily plan for key dramatic moments or plot twists though I recognize areas for potential (and set NPC stories and goals to help create these). Instead I learned to watch carefully to take advantage of key moments, to enhance drama that surfaces spontaneously at the game table, and to spin an unusual or random occurence into a diabolical plot twist.
This has allowed me to provide something very close to a large planned over-arching epic plot but turns out a lot more organic, derived directly from player choices, and isn't hinged on any single player character (though each PC has contributed to and has brought their own spin on the elements of that "plot").
I was happy to see someone mention B5 as it is an excellent example where the writer designed the skeletal framework of the story arc and fleshed it out as they went, altering the plot as key characters stories abruptly "changed" (i.e. a character death, losing a player altogether, PC turns into an evil NPC, etc.) such as the Talia Winters big reveal (where the actress asked for too much $$ to stay on and so left the show) and subsequent replacement by another telepathic character. Not to mention the leaving of the main character of the show after the first season and how his story changed into something even more amazing, the next actor taking over where his first character left off. Always feel free and flexible to re-write bits of the story that have yet to be revealed, even large re-writes because often you will find entirely new possibilities for the story you didn't see when thigns started.
An example from my current Eberron campaign. At some point it may be pivotal to the events of the campaign that one of the character "bonds" permanently with an artifact....
I like the way you put that. I think that's largely true for what I would do, but back in the day I had a hard time keeping myself from really binding the PCs to the plot (this was many years ago, when I first picked up D&D), to the point where they would be so important that a single death could throw a monkey wrench into the plot. Luckily, I've moved past that.
It all stems from the fact that I want to see their characters thrive, but not to the point where I remove the fear of death. I actually use character death as an important plot-propelling device, something that can be truly heart-wrenching and/or incredibly satisfying. As a result, I keep revivals few and far between, though I've never introduced any hard mechanics to sidestep resurrection (my players rarely play divine casters for some reason). Likewise, death is made very real and palpable to my players. I've handled PC funerals in game and it was actually quite sad (a good kind of sad, where the players actually thank you after the session). I like that, a lot.
Twisted plot lines are the bread and butter of my campaigns, as much by player design as mine. Most of my best plot twists have been inspired by players that have gone 'punchy'. Unfortunately, players don't always hit their timing 'marks' and key events have been delayed by such mundane things as tests, babies, weddings and the like. The final fight of one sequence of adventures devolved into a partial wrap-up with a key character being kidnapped (off-screen) while the rest of the party failed to rescue her in time. She showed up after her med school tests to be trailed into the action as a reinforcement.
Has J. Michael Straczynski ever written his writing philosophy out? As pointed out above, he has the angle on this.