Now I really like this race but, is it just me or is the "Swordtrained" ability a little much? I mean a Tengu Cleric with the magic domain can throw an elven curve blade (or pretty much any sword-like weapon) using it's wisdom for the attack roll. It just seems a little much. I really wanted to play a Tengu Inquisitor but I don't think my DM will let me because of this ability. Any ideas on a more reasonable ability? I mean they're a race based on japanese mythology so maybe give them daggers, short swords, and possibly long swords for free and bastard swords (katanas) as an exotic weapon? I'm just trying to figure out how I could get my DM to let me play 1. I guess I could just ask if I could play 1 without the sword trained ability.
An elf gains a crapload of proficiencies, too, you realize. Even a human cleric who took the EWP (elven curve blade) could do the same thing. It's a roughly feat-equivalent ability that doesn't break any damage caps. Nothing 'a little much' about it. Even if you DID invest in a whole bunch of awesome swords, you'd have to pay to enchant them all by mid-level, in order to deal with DR and the AC and hit points of higher-level monsters.
There's no difference between a tengu getting a bunch of sword proficiencies and an elf gaining a whole bunch of 'elven' proficiencies (plus longbows and composite longbows, shortbows and composite shortbows, longswords, and rapiers).
If you're playing straight Pathfinder an Elf gets 5 (or 7 if you count composite bows separately) proficiencies 1 of which is an exotic weapon, a Half-Orc gets 3 proficiencies 1 of which is an exotic weapon, and a Dwarf gets 5 proficiencies 2 of which are exotic weapons, a Gnome gets 1 exotic weapon proficiency, and a Halflings get 2 proficiencies 1 of which is an exotic weapon proficiency. A Tengu gets 12 proficiencies 3 of which are exotic weapons, o and they have a natural attack (not that it does that much).
Also an Elf Cleric still has to spend a feat to use a Curve Blade. Most Clerics I've seen won't spend their feats on weapon proficiencies but that's just what I've seen.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it being able to use all those weapons (I actually like the idea) it just seems a little much for a player race. I guess that and their Linguistics are really their only abilities though (they get a few more but not much) so it's not super overpowered.
If you're playing straight Pathfinder an Elf gets 5 (or 7 if you count composite bows separately) proficiencies 1 of which is an exotic weapon... a Tengu gets 12 proficiencies 3 of which are exotic weapons, o and they have a natural attack (not that it does that much).
An elf gets fewer proficiencies, sure, but how many different weapons is a character going to use? An elf also gains quite a lot of other racial abilities (all of which are perfectly well-suited to a cleric) in place of the tengu's Linguistics ability and largely irrelevant claws.
Additionally, you can use a thousand different swords if you want to, but you won't be by mid-level, unless you're paying to enhance them all.
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I've had a lot of prejudice against this race to be sure. I remember the old Kenku race that this one is semi based on. I thought they were too silly. But... after reading Richard Pett's The Weavers in Dungeon Magazine I gave up on some of my stogginess. The PF Tengu kinda grows on you. Having said all that, you need to morph it to fit your own gameworld... like the guys above have already related. Good luck!
You could always go with Tengu are proficient with any Martial sword-like weapon and any Exotic sword-like weapon counts as Martial.
If you're playing straight Pathfinder an Elf gets 5 (or 7 if you count composite bows separately) proficiencies 1 of which is an exotic weapon... a Tengu gets 12 proficiencies 3 of which are exotic weapons, o and they have a natural attack (not that it does that much).An elf gets fewer proficiencies, sure, but how many different weapons is a character going to use? An elf also gains quite a lot of other racial abilities (all of which are perfectly well-suited to a cleric) in place of the tengu's Linguistics ability and largely irrelevant claws.
Additionally, you can use a thousand different swords if you want to, but you won't be by mid-level, unless you're paying to enhance them all.
Not to nit pick but I never said anything about using 1000 different swords and Tengu have a bite not a claw. On another note my real concern is the Tengu being proficient with the elven curve blade, great sword, and bastard sword. The curve blade deals 1d10 and has an 18-20x2 critical and puts it into the hand of a Rogue for free. The cleric thing was just an example.
I never said I didn't like the race, I've actually always like the Tengu/Kenku but my concern is how to change it so I can play it the game I'm in. I do kind of like the idea of being automatically proficient with the martial swords and the exotic swords count as martial weapons (like it would work for the other races).
You could always go with Tengu are proficient with any Martial sword-like weapon and any Exotic sword-like weapon counts as Martial.
This is what i would suggest, it's how the elf works, they only get the exotic weapons if they are a fighter class.
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Also: it's worth remembering that the Tengu aren't designed to be a PC race. They're designed, like goblins and orcs and drow, to be monster races.
That said, I personally think that the Tengu's swordtrained ability is really pretty minor. It basically saves any tengu character from spending a single feat to gain the ability to use the type of sword that character wants to use.
Also, don't forget that tengus have a penalty to Constitution. That's the WORST stat to have a penalty in, after all, and goes a long way toward offsetting any swordusing ability the PC might gain.
Also: it's worth remembering that the Tengu aren't designed to be a PC race. They're designed, like goblins and orcs and drow, to be monster races.
True but you knew there would be people who would want to play them
If they're meant to be a monster race why give out how to play them as a PC race lol? Sorry I had to go there (I'm sure this will cause a bunch of comments about stuff but now that I mentioned it I won't get as many but since I mentioned that I will and the circle goes on and on)
If they're meant to be a monster race why give out how to play them as a PC race lol? Sorry I had to go there (I'm sure this will cause a bunch of comments about stuff but now that I mentioned it I won't get as many but since I mentioned that I will and the circle goes on and on)
They aren't there to stat up for players, they are there for the DM to stat up... it gives him a base point for running these races without putting them out of their CR range.
And the DM has the option of allowing the races to the players... the stats are also provided to make this easier on him if he so chooses.
If they're meant to be a monster race why give out how to play them as a PC race lol? Sorry I had to go there (I'm sure this will cause a bunch of comments about stuff but now that I mentioned it I won't get as many but since I mentioned that I will and the circle goes on and on)They aren't there to stat up for players, they are there for the DM to stat up... it gives him a base point for running these races without putting them out of their CR range.
And the DM has the option of allowing the races to the players... the stats are also provided to make this easier on him if he so chooses.
So why doesn't every race have it's stats laid out so the DM can make anything any class?
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If they're meant to be a monster race why give out how to play them as a PC race lol? Sorry I had to go there (I'm sure this will cause a bunch of comments about stuff but now that I mentioned it I won't get as many but since I mentioned that I will and the circle goes on and on)
Yeah; they (like many 0 HD races) are defined by their character class levels, and so if you want to make a tengu you HAVE to add class levels. There's no such thing as a tengu (or elf or human or orc or aasimar or goblin) with no class levels. Therefore, we listed all of their racial traits so that it's easier for GMs to build NPCs.
And if players WANT to play these races, they can. Just do so knowing that the races weren't built to be 100% balanced with the core races. They're probably close enough in most cases, though.
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So why doesn't every race have it's stats laid out so the DM can make anything any class?
Because space is at a premium in a bestiary. Setting up the section of "Monsters as Characters" (notice how it just says "CHARACTERS" and not "PLAYER CHARACTERS," this is intentional in order to infer that these rules are used for all characters of that race... including, primarily, NPCs) generally takes up a quarter of a page. For the races with zero hit dice, who generally don't have a lot of special abilities, this is workable since there's room. But once a monster starts getting HD or otherwise veering deep into monster territory, that space is MUCH better used for stats and, more often, flavor text.
If they're meant to be a monster race why give out how to play them as a PC race lol?
They don't. The section is "Tengu Characters", not "Tengu Player Characters".
NPCs, more formally known as Non-Player Characters, are characters too. They're who those stat sections are designed for.
So is a player character not a character then?
So is a player character not a character then?
All player characters are characters. Not all characters are player characters. Say it with me now...
So is a player character not a character then?All player characters are characters. Not all characters are player characters. Say it with me now...
All questions are questions, not all questions are redundant.
All questions are questions, not all questions are redundant.So is a player character not a character then?All player characters are characters. Not all characters are player characters. Say it with me now...
Perhaps you mean rhetorical?
Perhaps you mean rhetorical?All questions are questions, not all questions are redundant.So is a player character not a character then?All player characters are characters. Not all characters are player characters. Say it with me now...
Darn, that takes all the umph out of what I said
Since this thread enjoys comparing monsters to non-monsters, let's compare the Tengu and the elf, shall we? Let's just try a standard build that takes advantage of their main special weapons. For the elf, it's got the Elven Curve blade proficiency. For the Tengu, either that bad boy, the double sword or the bastard sword and a shield. Consider all the things the two races gain just at first level, in let's say fighter.
1. Elf. The Elf has a penalty to Con, but a plus to Dex. Furthermore he's also smarter, giving him a skill point to pick up Acrobatics. His magic-based bonuses aren't helping him here much, aside from the immunity to sleep and the +2 on saves vs enchantments. He also gets low light vision and a +2 to perception.
2. Tengu. The Tengu has a penalty to con, but a plus to dex. His wisdom gives him a small bonus to will saves. His skill bonuses are to stealth (Sir not appearing on this character sheet if we're doing a very straightforward fighter) and perception, which wisdom also helps out in. Basically the Tengu gets a racial +3 to these. If the DM randomly rolls treasure, the Tengu's proficiencies allow him to use something weird IF it's one of the three weird weapons he knows how to use. He gets more languages, which is good for everyone, And low light vision.
One of these things is not like the other.
Let's try them as casters. The wizard for the elf and the druid for the Tengu.
1. The Elf LOVES wizard. Loves it. Bonus to primary casting stat? Why yes. Bonus versus spell saves? On top of my already good saves? You shouldn't have. Good spell penetration that can climb with feats? Yes please. An Elf wizard can stand a good chance of making spells stick on high SR enemies. Always beneficial, I would say. The Longbow gives a good option for a low level wizard out of spells, and the curve blade can be useful if you're going gish. All but one or two Elf bonuses directly contribute to this being a good class.
2. The Tengu druid might seem strange. But why? For one thing, it has perception, which is something the Tengu wants to do, having a bonus to it and all. You want to sneak, right? Druid is your boy. When compared to Cleric, the Druid has a lot more defensive spells, especially ones that give cover, and eventually transforming into tiny animals, which delivers a nice +8 bonus to the druid. Enough about him though. How does this synergize? Well, the Wisdom boost is always nice, less situational than the elf's but at the same time, every druid should have a higher will save than the wizard. The weapon proficiencies? Eh. The druid might like them at low level, but sooner or later he'll have to grow up and quit pretending he belongs in melee. Kinda like the wizard, actually. More languages is nice for a tricky druid who likes using alter self. All in all, everything I have just listed is very situational, sans the +2 Wisdom. As a cleric, these same questions pop up. Why are you pretending you're a fighter, and why are your skill bonuses rotting in the drainpipe?
The Tengu, overall, is not as specialized as the Elf. For Ranger with a double sword, look no further. But once again, that's very specialized. Elves even make good druids and clerics, thanks to all their spell related stuff. The Tengu makes a good... Skirmisher? Skill monkey? I can throw out these buzz words, but they don't hide the truth. The Tengu does not match up to the elf in power, even if I stretch my imagination to its limit. The Elf is a specialist that applies to four, maybe even five classes. The Tengu applies to exotic weapon wielding characters of five classes. If you're not planning on putting points into its skills, there is little reason to play the Tengu aside from the weapon, one of which the Elf can let you use.
I'd like to hear how having more weapon proficiencies equals more power. If this is true, all you fighter, ranger, paladin and barbarian players had better retire and roll bard, you're clearly too powerful.
interesting analysis
i like tengu for rogue with the natural attack and TWF (double sword?), that is a lot of sneak attack dice...
Since this thread enjoys comparing monsters to non-monsters, let's compare the Tengu and the elf, shall we? Let's just try a standard build that takes advantage of their main special weapons. For the elf, it's got the Elven Curve blade proficiency. For the Tengu, either that bad boy, the double sword or the bastard sword and a shield. Consider all the things the two races gain just at first level, in let's say fighter.
1. Elf. The Elf has a penalty to Con, but a plus to Dex. Furthermore he's also smarter, giving him a skill point to pick up Acrobatics. His magic-based bonuses aren't helping him here much, aside from the immunity to sleep and the +2 on saves vs enchantments. He also gets low light vision and a +2 to perception.
2. Tengu. The Tengu has a penalty to con, but a plus to dex. His wisdom gives him a small bonus to will saves. His skill bonuses are to stealth (Sir not appearing on this character sheet if we're doing a very straightforward fighter) and perception, which wisdom also helps out in. Basically the Tengu gets a racial +3 to these. If the DM randomly rolls treasure, the Tengu's proficiencies allow him to use something weird IF it's one of the three weird weapons he knows how to use. He gets more languages, which is good for everyone, And low light vision.
One of these things is not like the other.
Let's try them as casters. The wizard for the elf and the druid for the Tengu.
1. The Elf LOVES wizard. Loves it. Bonus to primary casting stat? Why yes. Bonus versus spell saves? On top of my already good saves? You shouldn't have. Good spell penetration that can climb with feats? Yes please. An Elf wizard can stand a good chance of making spells stick on high SR enemies. Always beneficial, I would say. The Longbow gives a good option for a low level wizard out of spells, and the curve blade can be useful if you're going gish. All but one or two Elf bonuses directly contribute to this being a good class.
2. The Tengu druid might seem strange. But why? For one thing, it has...
An Elf Wizard can't use a Curve Blade without a -4 penalty unless he spends a feat to do so (it's a martial weapon for him).
An Elf Wizard can't use a Curve Blade without a -4 penalty unless he spends a feat to do so (it's a martial weapon for him).
You missed the 2nd part of the sentence where it says, "if you're going gish." Gish meaning Fighter (or other martial class)/Wizard. Presumably the PC would pick up the martial proficiency there without having to spend a feat.
An Elf Wizard can't use a Curve Blade without a -4 penalty unless he spends a feat to do so (it's a martial weapon for him).You missed the 2nd part of the sentence where it says, "if you're going gish." Gish meaning Fighter (or other martial class)/Wizard. Presumably the PC would pick up the martial proficiency there without having to spend a feat.
Thus making the Tengu slightly better at casting and melee without taking any melee based classes?
Thus making the Tengu slightly better at casting and melee without taking any melee based classes?An Elf Wizard can't use a Curve Blade without a -4 penalty unless he spends a feat to do so (it's a martial weapon for him).You missed the 2nd part of the sentence where it says, "if you're going gish." Gish meaning Fighter (or other martial class)/Wizard. Presumably the PC would pick up the martial proficiency there without having to spend a feat.
Invalid comparison. The fact he's going GISH means he's intentionally gearing himself as a fighter/caster combo. It doesn't mean he's a spellcaster who took a dip in a class for a single weapon proficiency. That would be foolish in the extreme, since it would cost them a capstone caster ability and a level of spells for a simple weapon proficiency.
If the wizard wanted to use the curve-blade, he'd spend a feat on it. Again, all the Tengu is getting is saving one feat due to racial blade training. And only if he wants to use an unusual blade. Not that big a deal at anything other than level 1 to 3.
interesting analysisi like tengu for rogue with the natural attack and TWF (double sword?), that is a lot of sneak attack dice...
We started a game on Friday where we have that it worked ok but the player kept forgeting the natural attack
Now I really like this race but, is it just me or is the "Swordtrained" ability a little much?
Personally, I don't think it's particularly overpowered (since most swords are pretty similar in terms of damage and critical range), but it seems kind of clunky and lazy to me ("uh...I guess they train a lot with every type of sword, even ones that haven't been invented yet") compared to the racial weapons for PC races.
Now I really like this race but, is it just me or is the "Swordtrained" ability a little much?Personally, I don't think it's particularly overpowered (since most swords are pretty similar in terms of damage and critical range), but it seems kind of clunky and lazy to me ("uh...I guess they train a lot with every type of sword, even ones that haven't been invented yet") compared to the racial weapons for PC races.
I took it as a more zen thing, they spend so much time training with different bladed weapons that they become one with the essence of a blade, and thus any bladed weapon they pick up they are in tune with.
They actually did it to fit more with myth. Tengu were supposed to be really good at using swords and some of the greatest swordsman in Japan were said to have been trained by Tengu although if you ask most Japanese people what a Tengu is they'll tell you a man with a really big nose and they might know a bit about them being really good with swords. Ninja clans were also said to be trained by Tengu.
You seem to have a really...bizarre obsession with weapon choice or damage.
Weapon damage very rarely if ever matters. There are zero classes that do the brunt of their awesomeness because of weapon damage.
Most of the time, the difference between weapons is what, .5-1 point of damage? That's...really not much. Like, at all.
Rogues do their damage through sneak attack. An extra .5 damage isn't going to make a difference.
Fighters, rangers, barbarians, and paladins all have their various modifiers.
Bards go for Arcane Strike and spells.
Monks...well, they don't even use weapons.
Weapon choice for the most part is pretty much up to your tastes then anything else. It's not a huge balance deal.
The things that make the most difference to me for the Tengu is the natural attack... a level 1 Tengu could have up to three attacks which is something (granted they'll be at -2/-2/-5 for their attack routine before BAB and strength but possible), and the Gifted Linguist. The swordtrained can be nice for rogues (which they do well with), clerics (which the do fine with) but it's a smaller part to me.
It's not that I have an obsession with weapon damage it's that my DM doesn't want me to be proficient with every sword in the game as an Inquisitor. The Elven Curve Blade pretty much makes up for the spiked chain not being as good as it was. I'm playing an 4th level Elf Fighter with an 18 strength in another game and I'm dealing 1d10+14 when I power attack and my critical multiplier is 18-20x2 and will eventually be 15-20x2. A Tengu (insert class name here) can do the same thing although their damage will go down to 1d10+12 because they don't have weapon specialization.
It's not that I have an obsession with weapon damage it's that my DM doesn't want me to be proficient with every sword in the game as an Inquisitor. The Elven Curve Blade pretty much makes up for the spiked chain not being as good as it was. I'm playing an 4th level Elf Fighter with an 18 strength in another game and I'm dealing 1d10+14 when I power attack and my critical multiplier is 18-20x2 and will eventually be 15-20x2. A Tengu (insert class name here) can do the same thing although their damage will go down to 1d10+12 because they don't have weapon specialization.
What
Spiked Chain was stupidly powerful because of it's reach. Last I checked, ECB doesn't have that reach.
If you're upset about being able to finesse it, then you're frankly even worse off - rogues want to go TWF or be a strength heavy build. ECB is the worst of both worlds here.
I just don't understand your issue with these Elven Curve Blades. It does a whopping .5 damage more then falchions. .5 isn't going to be a game breaker. Like, ever.
It's not that I have an obsession with weapon damage it's that my DM doesn't want me to be proficient with every sword in the game as an Inquisitor. The Elven Curve Blade pretty much makes up for the spiked chain not being as good as it was. I'm playing an 4th level Elf Fighter with an 18 strength in another game and I'm dealing 1d10+14 when I power attack and my critical multiplier is 18-20x2 and will eventually be 15-20x2. A Tengu (insert class name here) can do the same thing although their damage will go down to 1d10+12 because they don't have weapon specialization.What
Spiked Chain was stupidly powerful because of it's reach. Last I checked, ECB doesn't have that reach.
If you're upset about being able to finesse it, then you're frankly even worse off - rogues want to go TWF or be a strength heavy build. ECB is the worst of both worlds here.
I just don't understand your issue with these Elven Curve Blades. It does a whopping .5 damage more then falchions. .5 isn't going to be a game breaker. Like, ever.
Screw using weapon finesse with the curve blade, have a high strength power attack, cleave, great cleave, improved critical, weapon focus/specialization route and you're dealing around 1d10+40 or so with a 15-20x3 critical as a 20th level fighter.
You do realize that's only at level 20 (only fighter at that), and you could do just as well with the falchion? It's all of .5 damage difference before the critical, 1.5 after it.
You do realize that's only at level 20 (only fighter at that), and you could do just as well with the falchion? It's all of .5 damage difference before the critical, 1.5 after it.
Barbarians can deal some crazy damage as well with a curve blade.
You do realize that's only at level 20 (only fighter at that), and you could do just as well with the falchion? It's all of .5 damage difference before the critical, 1.5 after it.Barbarians can deal some crazy damage as well with a curve blade.
You are missing the point:
The weapon doesn't matter.
The whole "oh it's a 1d10 18-20/ x2" ( and please note the weapon itself is x2 on a critical not x3) thing is of zero value.
In the end weapons come down to four things:
Handiness -- Is it light, one handed or two handed
Critical Range
Critical Multiplier
Special Options -- Like reach, trip, disarm... of which generally only the reach or trip options are really of value.
Beyond that it doesn't matter what you are using.
So the "swordtraining" ability is of very value, only really being useful for those that don't begin or expect to take martial weapon training in some form at some point.
In short the Elven Curve Blade -- like almost every other exotic weapon -- is a trap that isn't worth it.
The falchion is just as good and easier to use, unless you want to use it with weapon finesse... and then why do you want a two handed weapon?
Yes a barbarian can do "crazy damage" with an elven curve blade... but here is the thing -- he'll do just as crazy damage with the falchion... just as crazy damage with a greataxe, just as crazy damage with a glaive, and just as crazy damage with a greatsword... and those are all martial weapons.
Screw using weapon finesse with the curve blade, have a high strength power attack, cleave, great cleave, improved critical, weapon focus/specialization route and you're dealing around 1d10+40 or so with a 15-20x3 critical as a 20th level fighter.It's not that I have an obsession with weapon damage it's that my DM doesn't want me to be proficient with every sword in the game as an Inquisitor. The Elven Curve Blade pretty much makes up for the spiked chain not being as good as it was. I'm playing an 4th level Elf Fighter with an 18 strength in another game and I'm dealing 1d10+14 when I power attack and my critical multiplier is 18-20x2 and will eventually be 15-20x2. A Tengu (insert class name here) can do the same thing although their damage will go down to 1d10+12 because they don't have weapon specialization.What
Spiked Chain was stupidly powerful because of it's reach. Last I checked, ECB doesn't have that reach.
If you're upset about being able to finesse it, then you're frankly even worse off - rogues want to go TWF or be a strength heavy build. ECB is the worst of both worlds here.
I just don't understand your issue with these Elven Curve Blades. It does a whopping .5 damage more then falchions. .5 isn't going to be a game breaker. Like, ever.
So again, my question remains: Why is ECB rediculous, but falchion is not?
The falchion fighter is doing 45 damage with 15-20 crit range.
The ECB fighter is doing 45.5 damage with a 15-20 crit range.
You're fixated on posting 1d10 over and over again. 1d10 is 5.5 average damage. Falcion, 2d4, is 5 average damage. They're .5 damage apart. That doesn't break anything.
You do realize that's only at level 20 (only fighter at that), and you could do just as well with the falchion? It's all of .5 damage difference before the critical, 1.5 after it.Barbarians can deal some crazy damage as well with a curve blade.You are missing the point:
The weapon doesn't matter.
The whole "oh it's a 1d10 18-20/ x2" ( and please note the weapon itself is x2 on a critical not x3) thing is of zero value.
In the end weapons come down to four things:
Handiness -- Is it light, one handed or two handed
Critical Range
Critical Multiplier
Special Options -- Like reach, trip, disarm... of which generally only the reach or trip options are really of value.Beyond that it doesn't matter what you are using.
So the "swordtraining" ability is of very value, only really being useful for those that don't begin or expect to take martial weapon training in some form at some point.
In short the Elven Curve Blade -- like almost every other exotic weapon -- is a trap that isn't worth it.
The falchion is just as good and easier to use, unless you want to use it with weapon finesse... and then why do you want a two handed weapon?
Yes a barbarian can do "crazy damage" with an elven curve blade... but here is the thing -- he'll do just as crazy damage with the falchion... just as crazy damage with a greataxe, just as crazy damage with a glaive, and just as crazy damage with a greatsword... and those are all martial weapons.
ECB will be useful if there's a PrC like Champion of Corellon Larethian, which gives dexterity to damage, and pretty much ignorable at any other time. Just like the Elven Courtblade of 3.5.
But there isn't yet, and until there is as a weapon it's not worth mentioning.
But there isn't yet, and until there is as a weapon it's not worth mentioning.
Oh, very much agreed ;)
Right now it's just a sort of cool extra for an elf (or I guess tengu) that wants to use a two handed crit weapon. It doesn't gain anything mechanically, but it can add stylishly!
I'm still at a loss as to how this got turned into "Felgoroth is obsessed with weapon damage hahaha weapon damage doesn't even matter at all lets keep posting about it and make him reply and then pick apart everything he says" and not "how can we help him figure out how to let his DM let him play a race he wants to play."
I'm still at a loss as to how this got turned into "Felgoroth is obsessed with weapon damage hahaha weapon damage doesn't even matter at all lets keep posting about it and make him reply and then pick apart everything he says" and not "how can we help him figure out how to let his DM him play a race he wants to play."
Good point. I'd suggest toning down the sword ability to something like the other races' weapon proficiencies (i.e. proficiency with a few swords and maybe treating a particular exotic sword as a martial weapon).
I'm still at a loss as to how this got turned into "Felgoroth is obsessed with weapon damage hahaha weapon damage doesn't even matter at all lets keep posting about it and make him reply and then pick apart everything he says" and not "how can we help him figure out how to let his DM him play a race he wants to play."Good point. I'd suggest toning down the sword ability to something like the other races' weapon proficiencies (i.e. proficiency with a few swords and maybe treating a particular exotic sword as a martial weapon).
Ya I think someone suggested that earlier. My DM just decided to say that only Core Races were allowed in the campaign he's starting though so I guess I'm just playing a Human (or maybe a Dwarf) :P
It was more in line with a "Sure go ahead and have this ability, its not overpowered in the least." From what I understood. You tried to defend it as being powerful, but it's really not, and I don't see a problem in letting you play a character that has it (you DM however has stated otherwise so of course it doesn't really matter now).
It was more in line with a "Sure go ahead and have this ability, its not overpowered in the least." From what I understood. You tried to defend it as being powerful, but it's really not, and I don't see a problem in letting you play a character that has it (you DM however has stated otherwise so of course it doesn't really matter now).
Originally my DM said I couldn't use it because sword trained was overpowered and to see if I could change it.