First Pass at (Fochulcan) Lyrist

[Orannis]

First off, a huge debt of thanks to SmiloDan, who provided a lot of inspiration for how I put this together. This is, as the title states, simply a first pass. Adjustments will probably be made and suggestions will be taken.

Ultimately, I went with a focus on being the "Ultimate Communicator" by way of a Druid/Bard fusion. Probably going to remove the Fochlucan flavor and find a niche (and organization title) for it in the Pathfinder world or perhaps just call the class "Lyrist" or "Nature's Lyrist".

The idea is a class that is the result of a specific and highly trained bardic college that integrates druidic traditions and capabilities. Like the Fochlucan college it is based on, it has immense influence with prominent governments in the world and it's members are master diplomats. This communication mastery extends to the natural world by way of their druidic talents. A fusion of their bardic music and wild empathy abilities makes them more adept at communicating with the natural world than even a druid, however their training forgoes most of the more esoteric druidic talents. Their instrument of choice is, of course, the lyre.

Here it is, the first pass at the (Fochlucan) Lyrist:

Requirements:

Ability to cast 2nd level arcane and divine spells
Bardic Music class ability
Wild Empathy class ability
Diplomacy 7 ranks, Knowledge(Nature) 7 ranks, Knowledge(Nobility/Royalty) 7 ranks, Linguistics 2 ranks
Must speak Sylvan

Statistics:

BaB: Average (3/4)
HD: d8
Good Save: Will
Skill Points: 6+Int/level

Caster Progression: +1 arcane + divine caster level at each level, as Mystic Theurge.

Lvl.1 Bardic Music, Wild Empathy, Nature Bond
Lvl.3 Soothe
Lvl.5 Empathy (Magical Beast)
Lvl.7 Empathy (Vermin)
Lvl.9 Empathy (Plant)

No capstone at 10, I think the class will be fine without one, if not as flashy as the others.

Class abilities explanation:

Bardic Music: Lyrist levels stack with bard levels for music abilities and rounds/day.

Wild Empathy: Lyrist levels stack with druid levels for wild empathy.

Nature Bond: Lyrist levels stack with durid levels for determining abilities of Nature Bond (animal companion or domain).

Soothe: The Lyrist is able to enhance the effectiveness of his empathy with the natural world by supplimenting it with bardic music. When making a Wild Empathy check, the Lyrist may expend two rounds of bardic music use to gain one of the following effects: a +4 bonus on the check, or the target's attitude improves by an additional step on a successful check, or the attempt affects all applicable targets within 30'.

Empathy: Upon reaching 5th level, the Lyrist ignores the normal -4 penalty on Wild Empathy checks made to influence magical beasts. At 7th level, the Lyrist can use Wild Empathy on any creature of the vermin type as though it had an intelligence of 1. At 9th level, the Lyrist can use Wild Empathy on any creature of the plant type with an intelligence score of 1 or 2 or a plant creature with no intelligence score as if it had an intelligence of 1.

So, lemme know what you think. Something need to be scaled back? On the flipside, anything not up to snuff? Specifically, I'd like to know if I should include the "Unbound" feature (allow use of light metal armor without interfering with druid spells) of the orignal class at any point. I left it out for fear of tipping into the "too good" realm.

[Orannis]

Oops! Add "Perform(Lyre) 7 ranks" to the prerequisites!

[Andy Griffin]

While you made the class a lot easier to get into, it isn't as powerful as it use to be, and I think it's lost some of what made it one of the most interesting PRC's in all the 3.5 material.

Also, since you advance both bard and druid abilities, instead of just bard abilities, and since druid casting is better than bard, it makes seance to max out your druid levels, in the original FL, most people maxed out their druid levels, and they only got bard abilities. Just something to consider

Also a few purely mechanical thoughts:

Also, the only entry to the class that makes sense is bard 4/druid 3. This entry will never reach 9th level spells. Spell casting wise, the mystic theruge is much better, you can get 9th level spells with one of your classes, and the other will have better spell casting that bard. You get some other neat abilities, but I think this class is weaker than the MT, which is generally considered worse than single classing. Perhaps 1st level arcane casting, 2nd level divine, this would allow you to max out either of the two casting types (9th level druid and 4th level bard or 6th level bard and 7th level druid), but not both.

Did you leave out Bardic Knowledge on purpose?

A ranger who spent a skill point on speak language(sylvan) could enter this class. Is that intentional? If so do they gain nature bond from this class or does it only advance it if you already have it? If not, I would consider adding nature bond as prerequisites. This would be better than the original requirement speak language(druidic) as there were ways to cheese that.

Wild empathy can only be used to improve an animals attitude, not communicate useful information. Consider allowing members of this class to also communicate with animals, magic beasts etc...

Finally I don't think it would be overpowered to add some sort of capstone ability. The MT has one, I don't think your class is any more powerful.

All in all I think the class is under powered. It's more restrictive than the Mystic Theruge, which is generally considered an underpowered class. Without gaining any great abilities that make up for it. Even if you make the assumption Bardic Casting + Bardic Music = Full Casting (and I would argue it doesn't) the fact that you can't get 9th level spells with this class makes it worse than the mystic theruge.

[Orannis]

Some good points here, thanks.

In particular, thank you for pointing out that a Ranger/Bard *could* theoretically enter this class, I had missed that. This is exactly the kind of scrutiny I was hoping for. ;)

As a result, I post this question to you (and anyone else who'd like to chime in): Should a Bard/Ranger be an entry option for this class? I certainly don't think it would be particularly *good*, but it might let certain players achieve a particular "feel" they are looking for. Let me know what you think!

Secondly, I thought I might be pushing it on the class's overall power if they could build to get 9th level Druid spells but... maybe I was being a bit harsh. Anyone have any prereq suggestions for making the class available at Bard 3/Druid 3? (I'd propose something myself, but I'm at school and don't have my book with me).

I don't think it's necessary to give them a class ability to directly communicate with animals. If that it absolutely must be done, there's always Speak With Animals.

Lastly, I'd like some capstone ability suggestions from any- and everyone! What should it be? Some sort of awesome, class-unique Bardic song? A sweet modification and/or boost to Nature Bond? Something new entirely?
(I've been thinking about the possibility of gaining fey-like qualities or some sort of fey-related power).

[SmiloDan]

It should definitely have rangers and paladins allowed to enter this PrC, even if doing so would be sub-optimal. The PrC should definitely have a capstone ability too.

You might want to post the 10 level version you have so far.

[Orannis]

SmiloDan wrote:

It should definitely have rangers and paladins allowed to enter this PrC, even if doing so would be sub-optimal. The PrC should definitely have a capstone ability too.

You might want to post the 10 level version you have so far.

I think I'm sold on it being available to Rangers, because while sub-optimal (y'know, I really, really hate that term...) it also sounds like a lot of *fun* concept-wise, which is generally %70 of the reason I make a character.

I dunno about Paladins, though... just doesn't feel right to me. :/

So far the 10 levels of the class haven't changed much from what I have in the first post here. The only significant change is giving a Ranger the choice of making Nature Bond stack with her animal companion or letting him pick a Druid-accessible domain.

I'm mostly working on the capstone, as mentioned above. The problem is that I'm a bit rubbish with developing entirely new abilities, and I can't think of any existing ones, other than a Fey-based "transformative" capstone like a Pally or Monk, that can be adjusted to suit the class.

[SmiloDan]

Maybe give them a new version of Empathy every level, and the 10th level capstone can be Panempathic, giving a bonus on Empathy and Diplomacy checks, possibly with a big bonus and/or reduction to the penalty to Rushed Diplomacy checks. Or maybe combine a Knowledge check with a Diplomacy check, so if you know more about your target, you can be more Diplomatic.

Wild Empathy is basically Diplomacy for animals, right?

Or maybe:

1. Wild Empathy (animals and magical beasts), Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Nature Bond
2. Soothe (1 extra step)
3. Extra Empathy
4. Discordance
5. Extra Empathy, Etiquette
6. Improved Soothe (2 extra steps)
7. Extra Empathy
8. Mass Discordance
9. Extra Empathy
10. Greater Soothe (3 extra steps), Panempathy

Extra Empathy (Ex). Choose one of the following creature types. You can now do a Wild Empathy check with that creature type with no penalty.
Dragon, Fey, Humanoid (all subtypes), Monstrous Humanoids, Plant, Vermin.

Discordance (Su). At 4th level, you can use Diplomacy and your bardic music to cause a target to mistrust and possibly turn on his companions. Spend 2 rounds of Bardic Music and make a Diplomacy check opposed by the target's Will Save. If you are successful, the target's attitude towards its companions is shifted one category towards Hostile; for each 20 points your Diplomacy exceeds the target's Will save, its attitude shifts one additional category towards Hostile. You can continue to spend consequetive rounds targeting the same creature until its attitude towards its companion is hostile, at which point it usually attacks its former companions.

At 8th level, by spending 5 rounds of bardic music, you can affect upto 1 creature per class level within 60 feet.

Ettiquette (Ex). Make a Knowedge check appropriate for the targeted creature type with a DC equal to 10 + the creature's CR. If successful, you gain a +2 bonus on your next Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive, or Wild Empathy check against that creature. For every 5 points you Knowledge check exceeds the DC, you gain an additional +2 on the check.

Or something like that.

[Andy Griffin]

Orannis wrote:

Some good points here, thanks.

Secondly, I thought I might be pushing it on the class's overall power if they could build to get 9th level Druid spells but... maybe I was being a bit harsh. Anyone have any prereq suggestions for making the class available at Bard 3/Druid 3? (I'd propose something myself, but I'm at school and don't have my book with me).

If you require the class ability Well Versed, that would force Bard 2/Druid 3, You could then perhaps use a skill requirement to make sure you couldn't enter before level 6 or 7. Without getting cheesy like requiring inspire courage +2 I don't think you can require Bard 3/Druid 3, but maybe somebody else has a sharper eye than I do and can spot something.

[SmiloDan]

Maybe require Bard 4/Druid 3 to get, but as a kind of cheat/capstone, give the class a 10th level ability that simulates a 9th level druid spell as a spell-like ability once per day or something. Or the highest level spell they can cast +1.