Druids and beast shape


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Does a druid using Wild Shape gain multiple attacks, as per the form imitated if they normally wouldn't gain multiple attacks (low BAB, etc.)? What about a creature's increased ground move rate? The spell Beast Shape doesn't list that as a benefit.

If not, why even bother shifting unless you need flight, swim, or scent?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Quote:
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

That's from the entry on Tansmutation

I can't seem to find anything about gaining the move speed. I don't see any reason to not allow gaining the creatures land speed though.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arnim Thayer wrote:

Does a druid using Wild Shape gain multiple attacks, as per the form imitated if they normally wouldn't gain multiple attacks (low BAB, etc.)? What about a creature's increased ground move rate? The spell Beast Shape doesn't list that as a benefit.

If not, why even bother shifting unless you need flight, swim, or scent?

From the PRD:

PRD wrote:
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +20 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

Emphasis mine


A wildshaped druid would gain the listed attacks of the form they assumed (see the Polymorph section in the Magic Chapter of the Core Rulebook...)

Quote:


...you gain the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropiate, and use your strength modifier or determining damage bonuses...

Reading that as written the Druid in this case would gain the attack routine the animal normally possesses, but is calculated with his B.A.B normally plus appropiate modifiers, so choosing for lets say, a Wolf begets you only one bite attack per round regardless of B.A.B it seems (though I will admit some animal companions and such gain an exception to this as a companion-class feature for themselves).

I may be wrong, but Wild Shape functions like Polymorph effects with some exceptions on the Druids part, but it looks like if you took the form of lets say...a Bear, you gain the Bite/Claw/Claw routine the Bear has but at your own bonuses, nothing else.

At least thats how it seems to function as written.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Princess Of Canada wrote:

A wildshaped druid would gain the listed attacks of the form they assumed (see the Polymorph section in the Magic Chapter of the Core Rulebook...)

Quote:


...you gain the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropiate, and use your strength modifier or determining damage bonuses...

Reading that as written the Druid in this case would gain the attack routine the animal normally possesses, but is calculated with his B.A.B normally plus appropiate modifiers, so choosing for lets say, a Wolf begets you only one bite attack per round regardless of B.A.B it seems (though I will admit some animal companions and such gain an exception to this as a companion-class feature for themselves).

I may be wrong, but Wild Shape functions like Polymorph effects with some exceptions on the Druids part, but it looks like if you took the form of lets say...a Bear, you gain the Bite/Claw/Claw routine the Bear has but at your own bonuses, nothing else.

At least thats how it seems to function as written.

+1. This is certainly how I interpret the rules.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4

Paul Watson wrote:
Arnim Thayer wrote:

Does a druid using Wild Shape gain multiple attacks, as per the form imitated if they normally wouldn't gain multiple attacks (low BAB, etc.)? What about a creature's increased ground move rate? The spell Beast Shape doesn't list that as a benefit.

If not, why even bother shifting unless you need flight, swim, or scent?

From the PRD:

PRD wrote:
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +20 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
Emphasis mine

Ah yup, you found it. Movement speeds indeed.


Princess Of Canada wrote:

A wildshaped druid would gain the listed attacks of the form they assumed (see the Polymorph section in the Magic Chapter of the Core Rulebook...)

Quote:
...you gain the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropiate, and use your strength modifier or determining damage bonuses...

Reading that as written the Druid in this case would gain the attack routine the animal normally possesses, but is calculated with his B.A.B normally plus appropiate modifiers, so choosing for lets say, a Wolf begets you only one bite attack per round regardless of B.A.B it seems (though I will admit some animal companions and such gain an exception to this as a companion-class feature for themselves).

I may be wrong, but Wild Shape functions like Polymorph effects with some exceptions on the Druids part, but it looks like if you took the form of lets say...a Bear, you gain the Bite/Claw/Claw routine the Bear has but at your own bonuses, nothing else.

At least thats how it seems to function as written.

Pretty much correct. You gain the attack routine of the animal, but using your BAB. Natural attacks never gain iterative attacks due to a high BAB:

PRD, Combat wrote:
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).

Where do you see that a Druid's Animal Companion gets an exception to this?


Animal Companions gain "Multiattack" as a bonus feat at 10th Level (see Pathfinder Core Rulebook on Page 52-53), if the animal in question has no other natural weapon other than just the one, it instead gains a secondary attack with that natural weapon at -5.
This is unique only to the Animal Companion and not ordinarily open to the animal or creature normally.

Hope that helps.

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