Sleep rules

[Cylerist]

Maybe we missed it, but we cannot find rules for missing nights of sleep in the core book.
Do they exist (and we missed them), if not what do others do if a character misses sleep for a day or more?

[Beckett]

Cylerist wrote:

Maybe we missed it, but we cannot find rules for missing nights of sleep in the core book.

Do they exist (and we missed them), if not what do others do if a character misses sleep for a day or more?

I believe it is a progressive con check after the first 24 hours to avoide getting Fatigued. It starts at 10, and is +1 to DC every hour. If you still do not sleep, after the next hour you are Exhausted, and after that, you automatically pass out. I think, I'll see if I can find it.

[King of Vrock]

There are no clear cut rules for not sleeping. Other than not gaining any hit points/ability points from resting or being able to regain Arcane spells/slots, there isn't a rule or mechanic that comes right out and says a Fighter who stays up all night on Watch gains the fatigued condition.

I've always used the same mechanics from Forced Marching however for characters that do not rest, which is similar to Beckett's suggestions but is Con check DC 10 (+2 per extra hour).

--Vrock-a-bye-baby...

[azhrei_fje]

You may want to check out this thread on ENworld as they discuss the effects of not sleeping. It's obviously not RAW for PF, though.

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Go to this thread to see this talked about more, including a reply from James Jacobs on the matter.

[azhrei_fje]

Thanks, EA. James doesn't specifically say how to handle it though in either of his posts there. Just that "common sense would dictate you're fatigued" if you don't get 8 hours of sleep. :-/

[cwslyclgh]

hmmm... though I may prefer 8 hours of sleep, I commonly get only 6 or so, yet I function normally every day... I am certainly not "exhausted" by Tuesday of every week.

In any case, I am not sure that James is the one to take "how much sleep a person needs" advice from given that he apparently never sleeps at all. ;-P

[Scipion del Ferro]

I don't think there are rules for eating or not using the latrine either...

I remember someone poking fun at the fact you can't starve to death as per RAW.

[Kakarasa]

I'm sure it'll come up in a subsequent book. Starving was in the rule compendium for 3.5. It's only a matter of time...

[ChrisRevocateur]

Dude, sleep does rule.

I just wish I could get more of it.

[azhrei_fje]

cwslyclgh wrote:

I commonly get only 6 or so

There are recent studies on sleep disorders that indicate only a small percentage of the population can keep this up without permanent brain damage (like less than 5% of the population).

One of my players was a technician at a sleep disorder center. She had all kinds of input on such things. ;)

[Cylerist]

Thanks for all the input,it helped our group pick a system we all like.

[cwslyclgh]

azhrei_fje wrote:

cwslyclgh wrote:

I commonly get only 6 or so

There are recent studies on sleep disorders that indicate only a small percentage of the population can keep this up without permanent brain damage (like less than 5% of the population).

One of my players was a technician at a sleep disorder center. She had all kinds of input on such things. ;)

if that were the case then American universities would be turning out vast hordes of brain damaged individuals... because studies show that undergrads are some of the most sleep deprived people in the nation.

[ChrisRevocateur]

cwslyclgh wrote:

azhrei_fje wrote:

cwslyclgh wrote:

I commonly get only 6 or so

There are recent studies on sleep disorders that indicate only a small percentage of the population can keep this up without permanent brain damage (like less than 5% of the population).

One of my players was a technician at a sleep disorder center. She had all kinds of input on such things. ;)

if that were the case then American universities would be turning out vast hordes of brain damaged individuals... because studies show that undergrads are some of the most sleep deprived people in the nation.

Have you met most college grads? In my experience at least, most of them are just as brain dead as their High School counterparts, maybe even more so, cause now they THINK they're educated.

[Treppa]

cwslyclgh wrote:

if that were the case then American universities would be turning out vast hordes of brain damaged individuals... because studies show that undergrads are some of the most sleep deprived people in the nation.

You think that's bad, check out the plight of med students. Nothing like a sleep-deprived doc working on you.

[azhrei_fje]

As I wrote, about 5% of the population can handle it for an extended period without permanent damage (I think it was slightly less than that, like about 4.5% or so?). Maybe those are all med students. :)

I found it particularly interesting that an attempt to change the day/night cycle for college students (the only ones who would put up with these kinds of tests for the minimal amount of money they paid to be in the study!) was never successful for more than 4 days if the schedule was less than 23.5 hours or more than 24.5 hours in a day/night cycle. I just think it's amazing that our internal biological clocks can be that consistent. (Check out circadian rhythm on wikipedia if you're interested in such things.)

[wynterknight]

Another interesting thing about sleep: Studies show that lifespan and average sleep times are directly related. People who get between 4 and 7 hours of sleep a night (or close to that) live noticably longer lives than people who sleep less than 4 hours a night OR people who sleep 8 or more hours a night. No real theories on why yet, but I found it interesting. Unfortunately, it looks like I'm doomed to a short life either way--I average 2-3 hours a night on workdays and 8-10 hours on my days off...