Hello, i'm searching for help about most useful wizard feats.
I just leveled from 8 to 9 straight conjurer wizard.
My actual feats are:Improved Initiative
Skill focus (Spellcraft) -racial feat
Luck of Heroes (not sure about translation) - regional 1st lvl feat
Create Wondrous Items
Spell focus Enchantment
Greater spell focus Enchantmenti play in a campaign with very few but hard fights, most of all with a single challenging enemy. So game is based on interact, commerce, skills.
Which feats do you suggest ? which are the "must-have" feats at my level ?
I was unsure between:
Extend metamagic, Intuitive Reflexes (INT bonus on reflex saves instead of DEX), another creation feat, Leadership (choosing a Cleric that will assist in fights and help with crafting)I will appreciate any suggestion !!! Thanks !!!
Have you considered "Combat Casting"? That +4 to concentration checks in the middle of a battle can be HUGE.
Also, at this level, you are going to start hitting a lot of creatures with Spell Resistance, so "Spell Penitration" would be a good buy, with an eye toward "Greater Spell Penitration" in the near future.
Since you are a Conjurer, you might want to look at "Spell Focus Conjuration", because that opens up "Augment Summoning." The stat buffs for you summoned creatures can be a big deal.
If you are in more of a battle caster role, then after Combat Casting, you may want to look at "Point Blank Shot" and "Precise Shot" for those wonderful ranged touch into melee type situations.
You are playing a Conjurer but don't have Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning...?
May I ask what is Luck of Heroes? I would say hold off on any item creation and metamagic feats till next level where you will get the bonus feat. I would probably go for spell focus Conjuration and then Augment Summoning, you need to toughen those summons up abit
Luck of Heroes is a 3.5 "Forgotten Realms" feat. It gives a blanket +1 bonus to all saves and to Armor Class. (Yes, just a bit overpowered.)
The fact that he has invested two feats into Enchantment when he is a Conjurer might imply that going down the "Spell Penitration" path might be a better deal for him.
Luck of Heroes, from Forgotten Realms, give +1 on all saves and +1 AC (at least in 3.5)
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Hello, i'm searching for help about most useful wizard feats.
I just leveled from 8 to 9 straight conjurer wizard.
My actual feats are:Improved Initiative
Skill focus (Spellcraft) -racial feat
Luck of Heroes (not sure about translation) - regional 1st lvl feat
Create Wondrous Items
Spell focus Enchantment
Greater spell focus Enchantmenti play in a campaign with very few but hard fights, most of all with a single challenging enemy. So game is based on interact, commerce, skills.
Which feats do you suggest ? which are the "must-have" feats at my level ?
I was unsure between:
Extend metamagic, Intuitive Reflexes (INT bonus on reflex saves instead of DEX), another creation feat, Leadership (choosing a Cleric that will assist in fights and help with crafting)I will appreciate any suggestion !!! Thanks !!!
-Quicken Spell ( A must have feat soon. Unless you can buy the rod )
-Extend Spell (Another must have, especially from lvl 5-10. Don't know about it now though)And what the above people posted.
Luck of Heroes, from Forgotten Realms, give +1 on all saves and +1 AC (at least in 3.5)
Yes, it's 3.5 only and it is ridicously OP'ed. No reason not to take it as any class if it's available.
To OP: Spell Focus:Conjuration and Augment Summoning are the only real "must haves" for a conjurer as you should be hanging in the back letting your summons fight it out for you. Also Quicken Spell is very nice for several reasons:
- lower level summons summon more creatures, so they are still helpful at higher levels, quickening them plays into that allowing you some instant additional firepower or defense for a comparatively low cost
- a quickened Spectral Hand and a Bulls Strength can really tough up one of your critters fast with you out of harms way
Secondary is certainly Imp Ini because it lets all your monsters strike earlier. If you find yourself unable to stay out of harms way, combat casting is very helpful.
Not sure what you want with Spell Penetration. If you are leaning towards nuker of debuffer, then Enchanter and Evoker would really be a better specialisation for you, the conjurer always stroke me as the least resistance vulnerable of all the casters.
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Well he will get a bonus feat at 10th so he can hold off a level on the metamgic feats.
True
Besides at ninth and tenth level your better purchasing a rod of Quickening than taking the feat.
A quickened spell takes up a slot 4 levels higher. So you can only start to use it at level 9 (without MM cost reducing abilities). I would argue that you will probably need those slots for 5th level spells not 1st level quickened spells, so your best level will probably be 11th to get it.
Buying the rod is 35000gp. That is too much gold to just shell out at level 9. It's better spent elsewhere. Quicken blows through spells. You need to be a higher level to get the most out of it.
[Threadjack]
I am also 8th level, and soon to be 9th, and I am also looking for my next feat. As I stated above, there are LOTS of good choices, so I might appreciate some help narrowing them down.
The character is a Human Lvl 8 Generalist Wizard (... and is an Apothicary in Korvosa). Here is what I have:
CotCT Trait: Missing Child (and my son was recued from Lamm!)
1st: Alerness
Hum: Persuasive
Wiz: [Scribe Scroll]
3rd: Brew Potion
5th: Craft Wondrous Item
Wiz: [Extend Spell]
7th: Improved Familiar (Pseudodragon: Majenko)
So because the character, at creation, was really focused on finding his son (Alertness and Persuasive feats), I am a smidge behind on feat selection.
I have since then been acting largely as a buffer (but I do have a good selection of other spells), and "cheap" potion maker for the rest of the party. (I have only been charging my party the cost, not the retail.)
So, what would be the next feat that I should select.
[/Threadjack]
Alacritous Cogitation from Complete Arcane is very good. Leave a slot open and as a full round action you can cast any spell you know spontaneously from that spellslot 1/day. (just like arcane bond). So much utility ;-)
There's also Insightful reflexes from another splatbook which allows you to substitute your dexterity bonus with your intelligence bonus on your reflex save. A wizard's dex bonus generally is 0 up to +2. His int bonus at higher levels keeps going up to +5 to +8 even or more. So on average you might have a +5 extra bonus on your reflex save (which is your worst save). Not bad for a feat!
But really, conjurer specialty and spell focus enchantment? That's kinda weird.
As others have pointed out, Luck of Heroes is from Player's Guide to Faerûn in 3.5 (and FR Campagin Setting in 3.0). As a Regional feat, it can only be taken at first level - providing that one's character comes from one of the listed regions. Regional feats are meant to be slightly better than the normal ones.
Furthermore, the bonus is typed as a luck bonus (+1 to AC and all saves) which means that most of its benefits will _not_ stack with such common spells as Prayer.
Well for any wizard build, check Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards. Lots of good advice there, and explanations on why he suggests certain things.
Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Wizards
For most wizards, the following feats will usually be a solid choice:
Improved Initiative - always helps to go first
Toughness - helps to shore up an inherent weakness
Combat Casting - only way in PF to boost Concentration checks
Defensive Combat Training - now you don't suck at defending against combat maneuvers.
Spell Penetration - solid choice, unless focusing mostly on summonings or other spells that don't usually have SR
Quicken Spell - very good at higher levels, not so good till then though since you don't have the spell slots to make use of if. Getting a rod is usually better.
Extend Spell - A rod is cheap though.
Personally I think craft rod is a good choice as well, since you no longer need the actual metamagic feat to craft the rod, you can save a fortune in making your own rods. Some of the lower end rods are extremely cheap too, so having a collection of lesser extend and silent rods and even empower rods is not hard to accomplish.
Actually, a wizard's prime req is int, and then it's personal flavor on whether Dex or Con is next most important. Generally, Wizards will gt Dex buffed to 18 or higher, for Init if nothing else.
I'd take a page from 4E and ask if you can use their rules for saves. Str and Con can affect Fort, Wis or Cha affect Will, and Int or Dex affect Reflex. it means that Melees have monstrous fort saves, but so what? Wizards will finally be able to avoid fireballs, and the bard is uncharmable.
I agree that a summoner should have Augment Summoning...no brainer there. Everything comes in with +4 Str and Con? thank you!
===Aelryinth
I'm honestly flabbergasted by some of the feat choices by the OP.
Basically Conjurers should have some or all of the following.
General Feats
Spell Focus: Conjuration - It's pretty much worthless but it unlocks the following feat
Augment Summon: +4 to Str and Con means those summoned monsters are tougher and hit harder
Improved Initiative: Unfortunately a lot of 3.x revolves around the team losing initiative getting hammered.
Combat Casting: Eventually you will be in close combat vs a BBEG and it's nice to actually be able to cast a spell
Toughness: Wizards are still the soft underbelly of the adventuring team, toughness can keep you in play longer
Improved Familiar: UMD + Quasit + wand gives you a secondary firing platform. It's kinda cheesy but sometimes being able to spam a wand is enough to turn a battle.
Metamagic Feats
Extend Spell: Extend spell helps in regards to buffs and utility spells
Maximize: +3 levels is pretty harsh but there are a variety of maximized spells (maximized enervation being a key example) where a 7th level spell slot is more useful than a 9th level spell slot.
Quicken: Being able to get another spell off is really nice but I almost always think this feat can hold off until 13th or so. For 9th and 11th level caster I'd almost always prefer to reserve my precious 5th and 6th level spell slots for a 5th or 6th level spell. A lesser quicken rod is definitely worthwhile though.
Silent and Still Spell can be life savers but they are very very situational.
Item Creation Feats
Personally I'm not sure that even with the XP cost eliminated in Pathfinder that most of these aren't of dubious value but some are okay.
Craft Wondrous Item: A ton of goodies in here that benefit the whole party, plus wondrous items fit the most number of body slots. You'll run out of GP before you run out of slots to upgrade.
Craft Wand: This is a better feat for the cleric (CLW wands are pretty much required in many games) but if the rogue has UMD or you have an improved familiar this can be a cheap way to get them some additional firepower.
Craft Weapons & Armor: You personally don't benefit much from this feat but it does make the meatshields better for less resource investment. This makes them happy and willing to do their job.
Craft Staff: I still think Pathfinder staffs are expensive investments but if you have a lot of downtime to recharge a staff the ability to use it as a spell battery is really really nice.
I'm honestly flabbergasted by some of the feat choices by the OP.
Basically Conjurers should have some or all of the following.
What about Univeralists?
What about Univeralists?I'm honestly flabbergasted by some of the feat choices by the OP.
Basically Conjurers should have some or all of the following.
Most of the same advice applies. It really just depends on what types of spells you like to use in most battles.
If you like blast and/or control spells some of the other spell focuses are worthwhile because boosting save DCs is rather nice. Blast is not a good strategy in 3.x for a variety of reasons but some people still like being blast wizards. In those cases being hit with a double whammy of energy resistance and saves can make blast pretty much worthless, being able to avoid your opponents getting saves can be worthwhile.
Illusion, Necromancy, Evocation (this school is painfully bad currently :(), and Enchant all benefit from Spell Focus. Conjuration specialists benefit mainly because they unlock augment summons this way. Transmutation focused wizards have some spells that benefit from spell focus (slow, baleful polymorph, flesh to stone) but I think most transmuters focus on beneficial buffs rather than debuffing. Abjuration and Divination doesn't need spell focus.
Honestly I'm not a big fan of Spell Penetration, it's mainly a feat that comes into play in the end game and while it can be fun to shut down the BBEG with a SoD or SoS "I win card" I think high SR mainly encourages the caster to focus on making the rest of the party better rather than solving the puzzle himself. Either that or memorize SR-No spells.
I like spell penetration for one reason. It makes planer binding much easier.
Really? There are enough good choices at each of the binding levels that don't have SR that it's never really come up that much. Granted for the most part player in my games don't bind devils and/or demons much. As long as the party is good and they negotiate in good faith archons and azatas are pretty much willing to assist. Elementals aren't great but they are easy to bind and really cheap. Genies don't have SR but the plane shift at will is something that the caster has to be aware of.
I'm rather shocked that anyone would take a feat for such a limited use.
I like spell penetration for one reason. It makes planer binding much easier.Really? There are enough good choices at each of the binding levels that don't have SR that it's never really come up that much. Granted for the most part player in my games don't bind devils and/or demons much. As long as the party is good and they negotiate in good faith archons and azatas are pretty much willing to assist. Elementals aren't great but they are easy to bind and really cheap. Genies don't have SR but the plane shift at will is something that the caster has to be aware of.
I'm rather shocked that anyone would take a feat for such a limited use.
As am I.
I was thinking of "Spell Penitration" as one does start hitting SR monsters at this level (9th). But, I am largely a "Buff Bot" anyway, so I am thinking that "Combat Casting" would be the best buy right now.
If you want to get somebody dead and don't want it known that you arranged it, it is helpful to planer bind something which does not share your alignment.And I don't think that's "limited" given just how much you can do with planar binding.
Remember also that we're talking about planar binding, not planar ally. Even if the target does share your alignment, ripping it out of its home and into a binding circle so that you can force it to do your will is, at its most charitable, going to be considered "rude" and likely going to get the target uncooperative.
I'm not a total stickler for alignment but summoning devils and demons to function as assassins definitely seems like an evil act. I wouldn't force an alignment shift immediately by any means, sometimes the ends do justify the means but if the wizard acts like Eldritch VonDevilSummoner too much they are definitely shifting into that LN(E) range.
By a similar token you aren't summoning a Ghaele Eladrin to wash your dishes you are arguably using the Ghaele to fight evil. Yes it can be rude but the Ghaele will size up the situation and act accordingly. If it feels aggrieved then yes a smite is coming yon casters way.
I see it differently. You are using planar binding to create cannon fodder. Remember, this isn't planar ally we're discussing here. Now, you can turn the good guys (eladrin) into critter chow or you can turn bad guys (demons) into critter chow.
It makes more sense to preserve the good guys. It's called "fighting fire with fire".
But, this whole subthread points to what I've said before. Morality in DnD is written in crayon. RAW moral codes are at the third grade level. There is no one true answer to the issue of which of these two options is the most good - it's gonna rest with the GM.
My gut feeling on planar binding is that Calling effects aren't generally intended as cannon fodder, barring Malconvokers, since RAW, that outsider is at a real risk when Called, versus Summoned. While there is no shortage of demons available to be called, they are part of a society of sorts. To be sure, demons aren't huge on hierarchy, but there is a definate pecking order, and a marilith may wonder what happened to some of the cannon fodder they had otherwise planned to use for a raid on some shore of the River Styx. Aggreived parties may start sending out quasits to check on things, and be annoyed when they go missing, because few casters who can use calling effects will be at any real risk from a quasit. Devils will of course be wondering in short order why their tally sheets are off, and may end up hiring third parties to find out. Frankly, this is all good plot in the end, as far as I'm concerned.
Mostly, the reason that some outsiders have SR and others don't, getting back to the meta point regarding Spell Penetration, is that by design some outsiders are riskier for Calling, and riskier in general to be using magic against. Setting up a character that can win big is sometimes a really good thing, but has to be a real choice. Taking a feat that improves your odds at sticking a Save or X spell or a Calling effect at opponents who are intended to be chancy versus direct magic may subvert some of the design intent of those creatures.
EDIT to add: This is completely immaterial of the alignment system and rules and the way in which spells that carry the Evil tag formally impact character alignment. I am a big fan of using Rule 0 to chuck the Good and Evil tags altogether, leaving Law and Chaos as the two teams. Generally, I like to think of the Chaotic Demons and Azatas as rather like cousins who tend to not get along very well at family parties.
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stop.
please, stop.
seriously, we've had the alignment debate on spellcasting already. It went on for pages, got nowhere, and left lots of angry posts.
Regardless of your own personal opinion as to whether or not a Good / Neutral character can summon or create Evil Creatures without harming their alignment, you need to understand that not everyone agrees with you, so you need to either
not recommend the spells at all, or
mention that there is controversy and debate on their use when you do mention them
In either case, once that's done, drop the topic, because there is no official answer.
To do otherwise will do nothing but derail the thread.
stop.
please, stop.
seriously, we've had the alignment debate on spellcasting already. It went on for pages, got nowhere, and left lots of angry posts.
Regardless of your own personal opinion as to whether or not a Good / Neutral character can summon or create Evil Creatures without harming their alignment, you need to understand that not everyone agrees with you, so you need to either
not recommend the spells at all, or
mention that there is controversy and debate on their use when you do mention them
In either case, once that's done, drop the topic, because there is no official answer.
To do otherwise will do nothing but derail the thread.
I left the matter alone when I realized that lilith and I weren't on the same page, I was simply confused as to why you'd purchase a feat like spell penetration for the express purpose of facilitating planar binding spells. Planar binding is pretty common in my games but it's never been so much of an issue that people are using a limited resource like a feat just to enable a more extensive selection of summoned creatures.
I'm not saying that Spell Penetration is worthless, in some campaigns such as an underworld drow focused campaign it seems like it would be a good investment. I just question the utility when SR in general is a mid to late tier defense in the game.
I'm honestly flabbergasted by some of the feat choices by the OP.
Basically Conjurers should have some or all of the following.
I'm surprised at how many people are so shocked that a wizard would have one school as a specialty, and another with spell focus.
Conjuration spells are *very* handy to have around - specializing in it doesn't mean you want to be a hard core summoner, or a summoner at all. In my experience, there's a better chance that at every level you would want a conjuration spell always memorized than an enchantment spell - especially as the low level spell DCs become irrelevant. Unless you really are a dedicated summoner (which he seems not to be), spell focus and augment summoning aren't any sort of "must have"'s (still good if you do summon, but a large investment of non-bonus feats).
If you don't want Craft staff (at 11th), or Forge Ring, then Craft Rod would indeed be a good choice - it's rarely taken, and plenty of useful ones you can make for other party members. Immovable Rods, Absorption, Splendor (for Paladins/Bards), etc.
If you do want Craft Staff, now or 10th would be the time to take Quicken.
Dodge/Defensive Combat training are both always nice as well.
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I completely agree that it is not a "priority" feat.
But lets face it, there aren't that many priority feats. There are only four universal feats that every wizard wants: Improved Initiative, Toughness, Defensive Combat Training, and Combat Casting. After that, everything is subjective.
Summon a lot? Augment Summoning
Buff a lot? Extend Spell
Target Enemies a lot? Spell Focus and Spell Penetration
Have access to lots of wands? Improved Familiar
Use rays? Weapon Focus and Precise Shot
But nothing's universal. Wizards tend to do best when they summon and buff, so picking up Augment Summoning and Extend Spell get treated like universal recommendations, but they aren't. Likewise, some players tend to favor spells that target enemies (slow over haste, etc), while others do the opposite.
As a general rule, if over half your spells cast per day provoke saving throws (whether or not the succeeded), getting spell focus a couple times, and spell penetration later on, is probably a good idea. If this isn't the case, there are better feat choices.
A lot of what makes a feat good is dependent on play-style, group size / makeup / cohesion, and the campaign.
LilithsThrall I don't think anyone is trying to dictate anything. They are trying to suggest, perhaps in frustration, that the moral and alignment concerns of summoning are discussed elsewhere at length, sometimes at logger-heads.
Its mostly a courtesy to the readers and the OP if we stay on topic and discuss feats briefly. Making reference to a possible problem is far more polite than fighting the battle here.
On Wizards Has anyone found the appropriate ac protection for a 9th level wizard other than 'don't get hit'?
LilithsThrall I don't think anyone is trying to dictate anything. They are trying to suggest, perhaps in frustration, that the moral and alignment concerns of summoning are discussed elsewhere at length, sometimes at logger-heads.
Its mostly a courtesy to the readers and the OP if we stay on topic and discuss feats briefly. Making reference to a possible problem is far more polite than fighting the battle here.
On Wizards Has anyone found the appropriate ac protection for a 9th level wizard other than 'don't get hit'?
In my mind, AC on a Wizard should largely be focused towards avoiding iterative attacks. Completely avoiding getting hit with a ranged attack from a CR appropriate combat focused opponent seems unrealistic but in many cases you can absorb an arrow or a javelin. You don't want to be hit by multiple javelins or arrows as the odds of a critical increase and the cumulative damage can result in being dropped early.
The Frost Giant is a good exemplar of a CR 9 foe. You can probably absorb a single thrown rock or javelin pretty easily but a full attack run in melee combat is going to hurt if not potentially take you down. I personally think it's unrealistic to expect a creature with a +18/+13 melee to miss with both attacks but it's possible to make it where you only expect to get hit once. You also want a high enough AC that they can't just pile on power attack damage.
I think AC 23-24 is probably desirable but you can probably go with a AC of 20-21 as long as you can reliably increase your miss percentage with a blur effect or something similar.
On Wizards Has anyone found the appropriate ac protection for a 9th level wizard other than 'don't get hit'?
According to various guides, mage armor and mithril bucklers and light shields can be a backup line of defense with 0% ASF, if the various illusion spells that grant greater or lesser miss chances (invisibility mirror image & blur) fail. Typically, though, there isn't a huge way to get up to meaningful AC as a wizard that won't be less effective than various miss chances.
Running the numbers, an AC of over 27 would be needed against an average CR9 high attack monster to beat a 50% base miss chance with no effective AC under it. Any AC over 18 will be effective enough to increase the total miss chance to more than the standard miss chance %.
So, assuming an effect that gives a 20% miss chance, a monster with +17 to hit, which is considered what a melee CR9 critter should have will miss 20% of the time regardless of what your actual AC is. Any AC over 18 will increase this accordingly.
Assuming an AC of 20, you will only increase the overall % to miss to 28% with a 20% miss chance. A 50% miss chance and the same AC means a 55% chance to miss. Each additional point of AC will only increase the percentage by 4% and 2.5%, respectively.
I like spell penetration for one reason. It makes planer binding much easier.
Why not use the special calling diagram for planar binding and bypass spell resistance altogether instead of spending a feat to just help with the SR?
Glad to help!
*crunchy*
As a more general note, characters that, ideally, wouldn't be getting attacked want to aim for an AC that is at least equal to level+10, and ideally 2*level+10.
Likewise, your average save should be at least twice your average base save.
Eventually, you have to consider that AC is not going to benefit you against level appropriate foes. Fortunately, mirror image, invisibility, and fly are all readily available for decent durations and at low enough levels to help where AC will not defeat attack bonuses. Of the AC bonuses, deflection is one of your best options as it also applies to your CMD, as grappling is the bane of all casters.
Eventually, you have to consider that AC is not going to benefit you against level appropriate foes. Fortunately, mirror image, invisibility, and fly are all readily available for decent durations and at low enough levels to help where AC will not defeat attack bonuses. Of the AC bonuses, deflection is one of your best options as it also applies to your CMD, as grappling is the bane of all casters.
I agree.
To a certain degree a wizard chasing high AC is at a high opportunity cost. Sure you can get to a respectable AC with an enchanted mithral light shield + mage armor/bracers + deflection bonus but those resources spent on getting a high AC come with an opportunity cost. The money spent on a passive item is money you can't spend on more active items. You definitely want to spend some in order to make it where it's not trivially easy to hit you but you don't want to sacrifice so much investing in passive defenses that hopefully you won't have to use every battle (because the meatshields and fodder are between you and the enemy). Investing heavily in armor is a decent strategy for front line fighters because they are likely to get 1 or more attacks directed at them every round. Avoiding getting hit as often or as hard is a useful strategy.
Likewise % miss strategies are nice but they can be overwhelmed by sheer force of numbers. BBEGs with lots of ranged minions can direct alot of damage at the soft targets with the hope of taking down the mage through sheer number of dice rolled. At times like that having some AC to fend off the attacks is nice.
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meh.
Most campaigns do not go from 1 to 20. Most campaigns start low (1-5) and maybe make it through 10-12 levels if they are lucky. Also, the game mechanics start falling apart after 15th level anyway.
So, high-level play isn't really relevant to a general rule. It doesn't happen all that often unless the campaign is specifically aimed towards it, and when it does happen things get so crazy that AC is the least of a wizards worries anyway.
Useful information? Yes. Relevant in regards to a general guideline? No. If you are making a 16th+ level character, you will have all the AC and saving throw items maxed out anyway.
Also, we are way off topic. Has the original question been answered to satisfaction?