Why We Exist


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Dark Archive

Interesting reading.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

And this is where the "Anti-Matter" went to.

Liberty's Edge

Now we know. But the question remains, does it matter?

*rimshot*


Is it possible possible to scientifically prove that God exists?

I think that what is noted in the aforementioned article that humanity may be on the right track.

The Exchange

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:

Is it possible possible to scientifically prove that God exists?

I think that what is noted in the aforementioned article that humanity may be on the right track.

please explain.


But this latest experiment came up with an unbalanced ratio of matter to antimatter that goes beyond the imbalance predicted by the Standard Model.

What is the reason for this imbalance? Why does this imbalance exist? How does it affect us? It is of my personal opinion that there are so many unexplained scientific that the rationale of it all doesn't come crumbling apart. How much further will test studies go in science? Theres only one of two like outcomes; either we prove the existance of the divine or we completely destroy ourselves.

The Exchange

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:

But this latest experiment came up with an unbalanced ratio of matter to antimatter that goes beyond the imbalance predicted by the Standard Model.

What is the reason for this imbalance? Why does this imbalance exist? How does it affect us? It is of my personal opinion that there are so many unexplained scientific that the rationale of it all doesn't come crumbling apart. How much further will test studies go in science? There is only one of two like outcomes; either we prove the existence of the divine or we completely destroy ourselves.

The reason for the imbalance, it has to be there. Whether this is divine intervention or a case of poor math is yet to be seen.

Why does it exist, well that's what we are going to have to try to figure out. Chances are however it has to do with something else. Gravity or some other force acting upon the particles and adjusting the spin in some way.

How far will tests go? Well pretty far, I think we are a long way from the limits of human knowledge.

We will never prove anything. We will undoubtedly come up with more questions then answers.

The divine is present in all we do despite our ignorance or misunderstandings.

Dark Archive

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Theres only one of two like outcomes; either we prove the existance of the divine or we completely destroy ourselves.

I find it highly unlikely that we would ever prove the existence of the divine. If such an event happened it would destroy the need for faith. To learn to walk by faith is one of the chief reasons that the divine placed us here, at least if you are a religious person.

The Exchange

David Fryer wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
There is only one of two like outcomes; either we prove the existence of the divine or we completely destroy ourselves.
I find it highly unlikely that we would ever prove the existence of the divine. If such an event happened it would destroy the need for faith. To learn to walk by faith is one of the chief reasons that the divine placed us here, at least if you are a religious person.

Faith can be confidence or trust in a person or thing. As such this does not preclude knowing that the Divine exists. Otherwise a person who has in fact witnessed a miracle could not in fact have faith.

Dark Archive

Agreed. Although I have always believed that you must first have faith in order to witness a miracle. Without faith a person would generally speaking look for another more earthly answer for what they had just seen.

Liberty's Edge

Crimson Jester wrote:


Faith can be confidence or trust in a person or thing. As such this does not preclude knowing that the Divine exists. Otherwise a person who has in fact witnessed a miracle could not in fact have faith.

Agreed. Many religions, in fact, do not rely on faith in the divine.

The Exchange

David Fryer wrote:
Agreed. Although I have always believed that you must first have faith in order to witness a miracle. Without faith a person would generally speaking look for another more earthly answer for what they had just seen.

You should always look for earthly answers lest you be blinded by falsehoods.

Liberty's Edge

David Fryer wrote:
Agreed. Although I have always believed that you must first have faith in order to witness a miracle. Without faith a person would generally speaking look for another more earthly answer for what they had just seen.

Blindingly accepting an event as miraculous is not faith. Even the Catholic Church investigates, extensively, claims of miracle. Rather, I think, faith in a miracle would be recognizing it as such when all other possibilities have been exhausted.


Just to stir up trouble, how can you ever exhaust the possibility that you simply do not know the cause of the miracle? Suggesting it is divine is to imply you know, yet admitting you do not know always remains a possibility.

Dark Archive

I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?


Twin Agate Dragons wrote:


What is the reason for this imbalance? Why does this imbalance exist? How does it affect us? It is of my personal opinion that there are so many unexplained scientific that the rationale of it all doesn't come crumbling apart.

It is my personal opinion that this does miss some important. ;-P

(insert "sentence" and "part(s)")

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:


How much further will test studies go in science? Theres only one of two like outcomes; either we prove the existance of the divine or we completely destroy ourselves.

Or we will keep looking for answers forever.

I think that's likely. Humans are like that. Ever curious. It's why we're humans, and not just another kind of chimp.

And we have plenty of chances to destroy ourselves, not all of them tied to scientific research. A lot of them are tied to lack of knowledge, actually.

And if we won't do it ourselves, our planet, and the universe it's in, has plenty of shots lined up to aim at us.


Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?

Curiosity killed the cat, but it elevated the ape to global domination.


Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?

It could also be that we simply exist is the reason. A beautiful accident in a universe of possibilities.

Sovereign Court

CourtFool wrote:
Just to stir up trouble...

You? Trouble?

Never...!

;-)


Callous Jack wrote:

You? Trouble?

Never...!

Would you even bother to read me if I didn't?

Sovereign Court

CourtFool wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:

You? Trouble?

Never...!
Would you even bother to read me if I didn't?

Who says I do now?

;-)

Dark Archive

Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?

Well in this case, the experiment was looking at not just why we as humans exist, but why the universe itself exists. The fact that more matter is formed than antimatter is fascinating.

The Exchange

Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?

Why we are here is one of the most fundamental questions man has ever asked, and continues to ask.

Scarab Sages

I'm pretty sure that I exist to drive my wife crazy. At least, that's what she's always telling me....

The Exchange

CourtFool wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?
It could also be that we simply exist is the reason. A beautiful accident in a universe of possibilities.

There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.

The Exchange

Aberzombie wrote:
I'm pretty sure that I exist to drive my wife crazy. At least, that's what she's always telling me....

;) just your wife?

Scarab Sages

Crimson Jester wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
I'm pretty sure that I exist to drive my wife crazy. At least, that's what she's always telling me....
;) just your wife?

Hmmm, now that you mention it, I have noticed a few co-workers get twitchy whenever I'm nearby......


Crimson Jester wrote:
There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.

Really? Considering the vastness of space, when you multiply any probability, no matter how small, by infinity, you end up with a positive value.


KaeYoss wrote:

Curiosity killed the cat....

But satifaction brought it back.

Dark Archive

Crimson Jester wrote:
CourtFool wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?
It could also be that we simply exist is the reason. A beautiful accident in a universe of possibilities.
There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.

There's a problem with that logic, only because we don't have the proper context to know for sure. Basically we have no idea how rare life in the universe really is. Therefore we can't put it into proper context.


Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:

Curiosity killed the cat....

But satifaction brought it back.

ba dum tish

Liberty's Edge

I thought it had something to do with pie. Guess I was wrong.


Xuttah wrote:
I thought it had something to do with pie. Guess I was wrong.

What kind of pie?

The Exchange

Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
CourtFool wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I fail to see why we have to have a reason to exist, isn't enough that we just do?
It could also be that we simply exist is the reason. A beautiful accident in a universe of possibilities.
There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.
There's a problem with that logic, only because we don't have the proper context to know for sure. Basically we have no idea how rare life in the universe really is. Therefore we can't put it into proper context.

I was speaking more then just the drake equation. Which by the way with available data the answer is 1. Of course Carl Sagan used to say if we are the only intelligent life in the universe what a waste of space.

Dark Archive

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Xuttah wrote:
I thought it had something to do with pie. Guess I was wrong.
What kind of pie?

Not Boston Creme. That's really cake.


Crimson Jester wrote:
I was speaking more then just the drake equation. Which by the way with available data the answer is 1. Of course Carl Sagan used to say if we are the only intelligent life in the universe what a waste of space.

So you are saying we were seeded by aliens? :)

The Exchange

CourtFool wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
I was speaking more then just the drake equation. Which by the way with available data the answer is 1. Of course Carl Sagan used to say if we are the only intelligent life in the universe what a waste of space.
So you are saying we were seeded by aliens? :)

;) now why would I agree with Dawkins

Edit: Tongue firmly placed in cheek.


Int is my dump stat, That article makes my head hurt.

I always thought the reason we were here is to wring as much enjoyment out of life as possible, to experiance every possible sense and emotion as oftern and as meaningfully as can be humanly done. Maybe that's just my crazyness talking but it seems to work for me.

Liberty's Edge

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Xuttah wrote:
I thought it had something to do with pie. Guess I was wrong.
What kind of pie?

Universe Pie. With ice cream.


Steven Tindall wrote:
Maybe that's just my crazyness talking but it seems to work for me.

Feel free to join me over here.


What does a poodle know anyway?


Old French Guy wrote:
What does a poodle know anyway?

Shrugs.


Crimson Jester wrote:
There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.

I got a crane with a huge bucket and filled it up with a million d10s. The crane tilted the bucket and dumped all the d10s out on the ground.

The 'chance' of the dice landing exactly the way they did is:

1 : (10 ^ 1,000,000) (1 in 10 to the millionth power!)

Quite obviously then, the dice were set that way by God herself. Anything else would be a tremendous leap of faith, wouldn't you agree?

The Exchange

another_mage wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
There are very few accidents and the 'chance' of us being here by pure happenstance is so high as to be a leap of faith to believe such.

I got a crane with a huge bucket and filled it up with a million d10s. The crane tilted the bucket and dumped all the d10s out on the ground.

The 'chance' of the dice landing exactly the way they did is:

1 : (10 ^ 1,000,000) (1 in 10 to the millionth power!)

Quite obviously then, the dice were set that way by God herself. Anything else would be a tremendous leap of faith, wouldn't you agree?

No I wouldn't. Thank you for playing.

Scarab Sages

I'm jealous though - he's got a million d10's


Aberzombie wrote:
I'm jealous though - he's got a million d10's

Well, anything more than a handful is a waste...

Edit:

Spoiler:
If you can't hold them in your hands, it's hard to roll them, no?

The Exchange

another_mage wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
I'm jealous though - he's got a million d10's

Well, anything more than a handful is a waste...

Edit: ** spoiler omitted **

I have rolled 32d6 in Champions before, haymakers are so much fun.


Crimson Jester wrote:
another_mage wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
I'm jealous though - he's got a million d10's

Well, anything more than a handful is a waste...

Edit: ** spoiler omitted **

I have rolled 32d6 in Champions before, haymakers are so much fun.

I've done that in D&D. I love delayed blast fireball.


Crimson Jester wrote:
another_mage wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
I'm jealous though - he's got a million d10's

Well, anything more than a handful is a waste...

Edit: ** spoiler omitted **

I have rolled 32d6 in Champions before, haymakers are so much fun.

:)!


Just to get this sort of back on topic (although the crazy dice rolling comments above are funny) we didn't need to exist and the universe would still be here and indeed was here for a long time before we came on the scene so we are to my mind at least a random occurence as much as anything but consider that our galaxy alone has 400 BILLION stars, chances of complex life arising multiple times over that wide a space are actually pretty good without any conscious shaping required given that the rules of science apply everywhere. As for matter dominated, that's just physics working out in a particular way. Now I am an atheist, but hey if others see it as the work of the divine, it's their call to make. I'm just enjoying life as it is and the insights into how existence came to be because it reveals the beauty of existence to explore these things.

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